35 Years Building a Yacht Chartering Business : Tim Alden | Quinntessential Questions #73

00:00:00

pulled out a pistol. >> Really? >> Held it to his head. He said, "Either you fix this or you're not going home." Dad said, "Uh, we bought a small boat, small cabin cruiser." >> How old were you? >> I was 9 years old. >> And that was that was the beginning. >> That was the foray into boating >> of your boating journey. >> My father was actually British Army. So, we were stationed in like four different cities in Germany, Singapore just after

00:00:23

I was born. >> Okay. >> Later in Hong Kong. That's where I also got into boating after, you know, several years on the south coast and hub, right? >> I was a service manager for a brand called Sealine >> and we delivered a boat to I call him a calamant and strongman um basically a politician businessman um doing things their own way and there was a few faults with the boat. So, we went to fix these warranty items, and it was actually an autopilot and a VHF radio, and he wasn't

00:00:53

too happy with the fact that we were going to obviously had to bring them back and replace these components. Long story short, uh he picked up the VHF radio, threw it against the wall. He said, "Either you fix this or or you're not going home." My boss, a big guy, rugby player, he sort of brazened up. The Calamantan man put him in a bear hug. We spent a few days before we could get out of there. when you look back, you think, how the hell did I end up in in this situation, right? I've dealt

00:01:18

with pirates in in in Malaysia and all sorts. I won't get into that now, but it's uh people don't know what goes on in the open seas. I was uh a dealer for Azimut yachts and feti for a period and we did a lot of uh yacht broking secondhand yachts after the Asian financial crisis. I used to go to the Monaco boat show, Genoa, the London boat show, Khn's uh but that's just for the boat show. Most of the work was done on location. >> Yeah. >> Jarta, KL, Kalimantan. No, I'm running a

00:01:48

company called Sinko Yachts, which I founded last year. >> Good morning, Tim. How are you? >> Not too bad, Paul. Thank you very much. >> It's so nice to have you on the show. >> It's really a great pleasure to be here. So, look, we've been friends for many, many years, but what I'd like you to do is just give a quick introduction as to who you are, please, before we turn back the pages of time, we'll talk about your amazing journey. >> Yeah, sure. Uh, Tim Olden, as you know,

00:02:16

and I'm 30. Sorry, I've been in Singapore 35 years. >> I thought you were going to say you are 35. I said, Tim, >> I'm feeling 35 sitting here talking to you. So, uh, I'm a bit older than that. I won't give that away, but I've been in Singapore 35 years now, and I've got three lovely children. We've just had a baby girl, Emilyn, and a beautiful wife, Hlinin, who's unfortunately not here today. >> Congratulations, man. So, you're a brave man starting again

00:02:43

>> at at at, you know, our age. Lot lot of energy. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's um I wanted Lynn to experience motherhood for the first time. She was keen to have a child together. >> Beautiful. >> So, no regrets. >> Oh, what a what a beautiful family. >> So, just just talk about where did you grow up in the UK? Well, I spent a lot of time in the south coast of England around in and around boats. My father was actually British Army. So, we were stationed in like four different cities

00:03:11

in Germany, Singapore just after I was born. >> Okay. >> Later in Hong Kong. >> I didn't I didn't know that. Yeah. >> Okay. And then you grew up in Dorset, was it? Dorset was where I was born and we came back after Singapore I guess >> between the ages of we spent some time in London >> around nine nine years old 77 >> pool swanage where was it >> we had a hotel we had a small hotel a family business in West Lith beautiful part of the coast the Jurassic coast you

00:03:40

heard of that >> yes >> to Dor yeah beautiful I've been there >> and uh it was one I think my first term of boarding school 1977 7. I remember remember getting a letter from the parents and dad said uh we bought a small boat, small cabin cruiser. >> How old were you? >> I was 9 years old. >> Wow. >> Boarding school. >> And that was that was the beginning. >> That was the foray into boating >> of your boating journey. >> Indeed.

00:04:05

>> Wow. And then what was it in good cuz my dad actually um he bought a boat that was about 43 foot long and the back end of it had blown up when um >> and so he got it for cheap. the engine and the the toilet had blown up. >> Yeah. >> And he spent years refurbing it. And we would go down every Sunday to a horrible boatyard in South Hall. And it was there was to there was dog poo all over the place. So we'd have to lay out up to 150 m of electric cables. >> Gosh.

00:04:37

>> And it was probably only 100 ft in length, but there was all the dog poo. So we had to lay out all these cables. The really nasty boatyard. >> Um and I hated it. I hated my brother and I hated working on that boat. It was dark, dreary, cold. But eventually we took the boat. >> You, this will surprise you. So he got his boating license at as did my mom when I was 14. >> And at 15 years of age, we took it all the way from South. >> Yep. >> All the way um down the canals out to

00:05:06

the river Tempames all the way down to to Paul. >> Right. >> It was a long It was a long It was And you know, a long voyage. I It was a long voyage over a summer holiday. But anyway, that's enough about me. It was not a very pleasant experience. >> But so then so boarding boarding school >> the whole from whence went to when >> started in 77 because of the transient life in the army every two or three years posting. Um left in 86 I guess when we went to Hong Kong 84 85 86

00:05:36

around then. So um in my after my first year of lower six left the boarding school and onto Hong Kong. >> And then how did you know about Hong Kong? How did that come up? >> Well, it was a choice. My parents gave me the decision. Do you want to stay in boarding school or do you want to come to Hong Kong? So it was an easy one to easy answer. So after Hong Kong, I redid my A levels, did my two years there. Um, and that's where I also got into boating after, you know, several years on the

00:06:08

south coast. And >> it's a real hub, right, for for boatsmen. And in Hong Kong, a lot of people enjoy the water. >> Yeah. I think it's one of the best boating destinations. Uh there's a lot more playground than Singapore, for example. A lot of bays. >> Yeah. Beautiful. >> It's more mountainous. >> Yeah. >> Um, and you got the seasons, which, you know, makes makes quite a difference. people that have only been to Hong Kong for a few days for business, they just

00:06:30

don't know how versatile the country is. It's a it's an amazing amazing collection of islands as you know. >> Yeah, I Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I had a lot of, you know, fun racing uh just family trips. >> Now, before we go back and unpack it, just for the audience members so they know, you know, what you ended up doing, tell them about your journey, you know, into yacht broking and not not the journey, but what you've been doing recently and what you're doing now. and

00:06:55

then we'll go back a little bit just so they're up to date. >> Yes. Also, I didn't mention that the introduction. So, now I'm running a company called Sinos Yachts which I founded last year. Um, >> congratulations. >> Thank you very much. >> I'm looking in a new direction. So, at the moment it's very much set up. We are doing business but it's, you know, new strategies. Um, I'm looking a little bit longer term, 5 to 10 years down the road. They've got, you know, as you know

00:07:20

in Singapore, the Great Eastern Leisure Corridor that's opening up. I think that's going to open up new opportunities. >> And so looking to sort of um change a little bit the way that the charter market is at the moment. >> Yes. >> But at the moment, you know, obviously go with the status quo. >> Are you doing you're doing chartering and broking for for purchase? >> No, I I did broking for purchase in the the mid 90s or throughout the 90s. I was uh a dealer for Azimut Yachts and

00:07:50

Ferreti for a period and we did a lot of uh yacht broking secondhand yachts after the Asian financial crisis. >> What what was it like dealing with you know the ultra high net worth the super rich cuz you've probably dealt with different stratas but you know it's got to be interesting challenging at times >> different stories in on the whole very nice people to deal with. >> Yeah. um on the whole much easier you know you could say than middle management you probably know yourself.

00:08:18

Yeah, >> people at the highest level, they've done that. They've achieved a great deal. So, bit more relaxed, right? >> Nothing to prove. Um, >> so where where were you? Were you in places like Monaco? Where were you? >> Well, I used to go to the Monaco boat show, Genoa, the London boat show, Khan's, but that's just for the boat show. Most of the work was done on location. >> Yeah. >> Jakarta, KL, Calimantan at one point. That was quite a >> Tell me about Calamantan. I know I know

00:08:42

a little bit about the story, but for the guys listening, tell us. There's a great story. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean that was just after my years in Hong Kong where I did an apprenticeship. Um I told you that before. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I sort of learned the trade hands-on and we came down to Singapore 1991. I was the service manager for a brand called Sealine and we delivered a boat to I call him a calamant and strongman. Um basically a politician businessman um doing things their own

00:09:10

way. And there was a few faults with the boat. There was also about $20,000 overdue. So, we went to fix these warranty items and it was actually an autopilot and a VHF radio and he wasn't too happy with the fact that we were going to obviously had to bring them back and replace these components. And he wasn't happy with that. Long story short, uh he and my boss were in his study. He picked up the VHF radio, threw it against the wall. He said, "Either you fix this or you're not going home."

00:09:42

So, uh, the the upshot of that was then my my boss was a big guy, rugby player, he sort of brazened up. The Calamantan man put him in a bear hug, pulled out a pistol. >> Really? >> Held it to his head. Yeah. So, >> you know, obviously you didn't know and your boss didn't know he had a pistol on him. >> He didn't know, but you know, it didn't surprise us. Uh, he didn't get shot, but it was, you know, quite nerve-wracking. And >> yeah, >> we spent a few days before we could get

00:10:10

out of there. >> Crazy. Um, >> crazy. When you look back at some of the stories, you know, when you look back, you think, "How the hell did I get end up in in this situation, right?" >> Yeah. I think, you know, back then when you're young and, you know, innocent, it just doesn't really register. >> Yeah. >> How dangerous a situation you were in. But, >> yeah. Yeah. >> There was a few other >> Well, people don't know. You know, I've

00:10:29

dealt with pirates in in in Malaysia and all sorts. I won't get into that now, but it's uh people don't know what goes on in the open seas. And you know, do you remember there was a footage a few years ago of the Somali pirates? Yeah. >> And only because it was captured on film did people really understand what goes on cuz it's very Cuz when you think of pirates, you think, you know, are you know Yeah. You know, it's very is actually very different. Talk to me about broking

00:10:58

because when when broking a deal like for example, I'm just curious about the whole process from you, how did you get the clients? Would you have to fly in and you know you know did you go and do tours with them on the boat? What were you doing? What was it looking like? >> I mean generally the process it's you know it's a grind. It's prospecting. They don't call you. You prospect. Uh boats in those days it wasn't a a known industry. There was there was no marinas.

00:11:25

>> Yeah. >> Um there was no visibility. We had to introduce it to them. Uh obviously go to the high wet north uh net worth markets. And we'd have some stock boats. Uh we'd invite them for a sea trial. Get to know them obviously as you know at a very personal level. >> Yeah. >> Get to know them. >> Um if people have got an interest in the sea, it helps. >> Yeah. >> Uh often it was a little bit a case of status symbol. Yeah. >> Being a status symbol, new new wealth.

00:11:56

>> Um >> for me, I got into the business as a passion. So that was um slightly disillusioned by that at a young age. Yeah. >> Um, you learn just to build the business and go go along with it. >> What's What's interesting because you and I have been in sales for years and I've I've got my own, you know, I've I've I don't have Did you study sales? >> No, I'm guessing you didn't because most people that I know haven't done and I've

00:12:20

I've thought about it because at the end of the day I think sales is about human interaction. >> Yes. >> And the truth is beyond the initial hi, how you doing? That initial connection beyond that it's all about trust, right? It's it's about because the thing is you can do these guys can do business with anyone. So they're going to trust you. They've got to enjoy their interactions and I think for me that probably would be your key strength because you're just

00:12:43

so genuine and you know got so much integrity that that would go a long way. Um I I we'll come back to some of your experiences but like just as co was got we had co I reached out to you and I said because we couldn't travel obviously anywhere in the world and in Singapore it was no different. And when it was it eased up a little bit, I said to you, "Can you get me a boat for for the day to take my family out?" And then you were kind enough to to be there to greet us. I've still got those pictures

00:13:07

and video footage. We're all wearing masks, >> but when we were on the boat, you know, my son caught a little fish. We went out. Where did we go? Which island? >> I think Lazarus, South Islands, St. John's. >> I I've been in Singapore all these years. I'd never done it. And it was it was it was a lovely way to spend the day. So, I can't advocate it enough. How How much does it cost now roughly? you've got you've got a different set of uh boats, but just roughly for for those

00:13:30

that don't know because a lot of people think it's it's so expensive that they don't even think about doing it. But it's actually pretty affordable when you consider your options. >> Yeah, very much. I mean, it can start at sort of um $550 even. Um so maybe 65 per head excluding food and beverage. >> Yeah. >> Up to the higher level corporate yachts, 150 ahead plus food. So we c we try to cater to everyone. We want everybody to be able to um get a taste of the

00:13:58

experience. >> Yeah. >> Not just for the ultra rich or the even >> and I'll tell you what's a hell of a lot cheaper than owning a boat. >> Yeah. I mean this is this is the thing. Having sold boats and you see is a cash drain. >> Oh man. >> I wouldn't actually I wouldn't actually recommend it. >> You you got to have a lot of money. I I don't know what's worse horses or or or boats in terms of the upkeep thereafter. >> They say boats. I've spoken to horse

00:14:21

owners and they said this is worse than owning a horse. >> Really? >> So, yeah. >> Yeah, it was it was you know what it's like working with my dad on that boat it because to his credit apart from rebuilding the fiber hole you know he did everything else. He put all the and it was a lot of work. put the two engines in, everything was by and apart from the shaft, everything was secondhand, >> you know, and it what what an adventure. And >> it was only years later when I was

00:14:49

re-watching Jaws, which is one of my favorite movies, I realized my dad built that his boat based on that boat. >> Is that right? >> Kind of. Kind of cuz he was a fisherman, right? So, it was an amazing adventure. Talking talk to me about the Red Sea >> and and >> Red Sea was an amazing adventure. As I said, my dad was in the army. >> Yeah. And I was sort of undecided career-wise. I I went back to UK. I had a place at Poly to do hotel management. Okay. >> Which was more my sort of mum thing. Uh

00:15:17

but >> I want I wanted I didn't know that. I wanted to do hotel management and I didn't like it. >> Yeah. I looked into it. >> My heart wasn't in it. And you know I'd already made a decision at a young age consciously >> to go into the boat business >> and >> I think my dad expected that. So I came back to Hong Kong. They didn't even know I was, you know, on the way back. Sort of tail between the legs. Anyway, he sent me up with this delivery uh because

00:15:42

the army often got got approached for adventure training. They wanted crew and it was a 49 ft catch. Beautiful boat uh completely refitted. And we took it from Hong Kong to Singapore and then from the Maldes to the Mediterranean. >> Wow. >> So, yeah, amazing trip. Indian Ocean up the Red Red Sea, the Straits of Babel Mandab. Unfortunately, in those days, uh they didn't have satellite coverage. There was no satnav. And in that area, we used a thing called Lauren Sea, which were landbased um antennas.

00:16:18

And the captain, I was just a young kid, so disclaimer, he didn't know that um the coverage ran out inside the Red Sea. >> He couldn't use this extant. My father had taught me how to use the sextant. I could do noon sightes with the sun. And so, you know, we went along dead reckoning. And we picked up this reef which was sort of approximately uh west of Jedha, right in the middle. >> Wow. >> And we got it on the radar. Everything was tracking fine. No issues. Go around

00:16:48

it. I was off watch middle of the night. As you know, it's about uh late evening, 9:00. hit this, you know, massive thud and we'd actually driven right up the center of the atole, hit the wreck on the other side. >> No way. >> So we Yeah, we were shipwrecked basically. >> Hardest day of my life and horrible for the captain. Really horrible. He was so, you know, suicidal. >> Jeez. >> And then So what happened? How long were you How did you get out of it? >> It took us a whole day to get off. We

00:17:18

had to wait for the tide to drop. Um >> and the boat didn't tip over. >> No, it just went up. So what happened? He cooked the engine because all the oil flooded back. >> He tried to reverse it off. >> Natural sort of instinct. >> Um it put a connecting rod through the block. I don't know if you know engines. >> Yeah. >> Completely destroyed it. >> We spent a whole day dragging it dragging the boat off using anchor and chain. Uh captain was in the water. He

00:17:43

was a foreman um Navy Seal. Not a SEAL but a special boat service. Um, and it, you know, was middle of the desert, desert environment, super hot, >> crazy. >> We got into Port Sudan. We spent two months in Port Sudan. >> Really? >> And >> wow. >> In which time a civil war broke out. >> Yeah. >> We couldn't get There was currency embaros. >> Jeez. How old were you? >> I was 19. 189. >> You're think you must be thinking, what

00:18:12

the hell's going on? >> I thought this was all part and parcel of life to be honest. >> But ignorance is bliss sometimes. What what happened to the boat then? >> So, basically um the owner flew another captain in. We couldn't get parts there at all for that engine. So, we had an engineer called Ahmed. Amazing guy. He literally dismantled the engine piece by piece. Took off the cylinder head, coolers, you know, the heat exchangers. >> Yeah. >> Took out the block, rebuilt it from god

00:18:41

knows what parts, rewelded the block. There was a big hole through the side. I think he even rewed the piston rings if that's possible. >> Really >> put it all back in and with the new captain, we then took it up the rest of the voyage. >> Yeah. >> Then there was another incident. Uh try and keep it short. We were ready to go through the the Sewish Canal and what they do the night. Have >> you been down there? >> Yeah, we went through amazing experience. Yeah.

00:19:08

>> I mean, it's it's huge. >> It's massive. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So what they do is that the the small pleasure craft they they let us through at night. Yeah. Every two weeks and then the big ships go through in the daytime and we stop in the bitter lakes. >> Yeah. >> So we were due to go we had an agent called the prince of the Red Sea. >> Bit of a con man. I mean I think most of them are there. >> Yeah. >> You got to pay back sheish in the form

00:19:31

of cigarettes, alcohol to >> There's always some backhanders. That's moving. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's probably changed by now. This was >> Yeah. Probably not as bad, but backhanders still go on everywhere, >> I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, it was all good fun. Anyway, that night I went into Cairo. We had our passports on the way back. >> By the way, I interrupt you. I'm just the way you're painting. This is kind of Indiana Jones, James Bond. I've got

00:19:55

these vision cuz you're talking about Panama. You're talking about you're talking about Egypt. All right. Go back to Cairo. >> It was a bit like that when you look back. I mean, that was crazy >> the way in the day. >> This was late 80s. >> Yeah. Anyway, the the driver got a puncture. So, we thought, "Okay, pull over. Just change the tub." He said, "No, bandits. >> He wouldn't stop." Yeah. >> So, we we crawled back at that must have

00:20:18

been 10 20 m an hour. >> Yeah. >> By the time we got there, the captain was fuming. He was bit of a drinker. Completely inebriated. And where have you been? You know, we're leaving tonight. We couldn't get clearance. So, you know, it didn't look good on me. Uh I was I took the crew in. Anyway, about 2:00 in the morning, all the pilots started coming out to take the boats through and we saw them leave one by one. And then lo and behold, a pilot got onto our boat and off we set.

00:20:48

So, we thought, "Oh, okay. Let's go." Later in the morning, I think it must have been about 8:00, the VHF started going off and we got this call. Uh, Boo, the name of the boat was Buu, named after the owner's wife. >> Said, "Boo Boo, this is the prince. This is the prince coming over." So, we looked at each other. I said, "Okay, just answer him." Uh, yeah. Prince, this is Buu over. This is Buu. Ah, Boo. Buu. He was frantic. He said, "Come in. Come in. Uh, there's been a

00:21:16

mistake. There's been a mistake. You need to turn back immediately." So, said the watch like pretend you can't hear him. >> Yeah. Like, over. Can't hear you. Over. >> Communication problem. Uh, Prince. Yeah. Sorry. Can you repeat? Uh, bit of a bad reception there. and he was frantic know the captain just turn it off. So off we go. We got to the bitter lakes and we thought okay obviously they're going to be a problem here. >> Yeah. >> Same thing the the pilot got off and

00:21:48

amazingly to our amazement in the middle of the night they put the second pilot on and we got through and out of Egypt into the Mediterranean which was a relief. >> Amazing. >> But yeah it was really sort of escape. You know, it's it's interesting because my my wife specializes in international law, >> right? Yeah. >> And you know what most people don't know, and I don't know the exact distance, she'll kill me for not knowing, but how many nautical miles

00:22:14

past land >> into the ocean is owned by that that country >> and then you you ch you go into international territory waters? I >> think it's 12 or 24. >> It's something like that. It's something like that, right? It's it's quite a distance, but the reality is you cross an invisible line and all of a sudden you can do whatever you want kind of thing, right? It's and it's being at sea is very scary. I saw this great thing on Instagram the other day where I don't

00:22:38

know how true it is. Um there was a boat that that the engines weren't working and they couldn't get anyone to fix it. No one no one was in the company's crew. >> Yes. >> And they called this fella who's an expert and he came down and he worked on it for 20 minutes. hit a few things, left, sent him an invoice for $20,000. And they said, "That's pretty expensive, you know, for 20 minutes." And he goes, "Well, it's it's 20 years of experience,

00:23:04

and let's look at what the alternative would have been. How long were you working on this?" And I think that that is so true about expertise. Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. We we use that analogy all the time. You you've really got to know where to hit the hammer. >> That's it 100%. >> This is experience. you know, you know, um when the one thing working with my dad, I mean, he just he was self-taught, but um when I look back, it it kind of amazes me, but and I I learned a lot of

00:23:32

it with him, but not properly, but um because he was learning, so I was learning kind of like one step behind him, but I, you know, he had a he always had two or three weld welding machines. He had a MIG welder. >> Yeah. >> Always in the garage. You think like who grows up with that, you know? He had every kind of tool and device. We had mini diggers in the back and this that and the other. But I told this crazy story. So we are I've got I'm going to try and find pictures and do we're

00:23:59

lifting the boat up >> in the South boatyard with a massive crane. >> Yeah. >> To put it into the canal. So it's got to go over a wall and the there's a wall that is basically one brick wide. >> Yeah. >> Right. It's it shouldn't be there. The wall can fall down. So anyway, my dad decides to jump from the wall into the boat. Uh this is at the end of the day. It goes over on his ankle. He's broken his ankle >> and um or dislocated at the time. I

00:24:27

didn't know what it was. And he's in immense pain. Now the thing is whenever my dad was in pain, I would crack up because he was such a hard guy and he was very hard on me. So I'll give you an example before that. Earlier on in the day, we were having to get, you know, you have you prop the boat up. >> It's a 43 foot boat. It's not a small boat with with uh wooden timbers. >> Yeah. >> You know, and we we he got his they were old railway >> keepers. Yeah.

00:24:53

>> Yeah. >> And he's saying like he's holding it up and he's trying to tip it in >> and I'm using a sledgehammer and he goes, "Whatever you do, I'm 14. Don't hit the hull." >> Right. So, and you we're bent down and I'm doing this and I'm 14, so I'm not that strong. And it's a full sledgehammer and he goes, "Hit it." So I thought, "Oh god, I don't want to miss." I went, "Boom." And I hit his hand.

00:25:15

>> Oh, Jesus. >> And I was like, "Do I run? What do I do?" And he goes, and I'll never forget this because we had to do it because the the boat wasn't going to tip over, but it was a bit sketchy. >> And he just said, "Finish the job." >> Right. And I And he I bust his hand big time, right? My dad's Give you an idea. My dad's he was a builder. His wedding ring today is still very loose on my thumb. So he had big hands. So then fast forward later that day, jumps down,

00:25:45

breaks his ankle. And then um he said, "I need to push it back into place." So he gets a piece of timber, puts it in it between his mouth after he's had a shot of whiskey, pushes down on it, and I'm like, "Dad, you're a savage." And all I wanted to do was drive home. >> I just said to him, "Let me drive home. I'm 14." He goes, "No." And it was his left foot. And I'll tell you how I remember because he couldn't use the clutch. We had an old Nissan Prairie. My

00:26:12

dad was such a brilliant driver. He drove the whole way home without using the clutch. And I asked him how he did it. And he said, "You have to time the move." >> Yeah. >> Right. When you're changing gears, going up's okay. Coming down was not so easy. >> And I remember thinking, "Wow." Cuz cuz years later I tried doing it wasn't easy. You know, the timing of it, right? And he he was he had a mechanical background. So he was he was brilliant. And then I'll tell you one other story

00:26:35

about my old man. So we were, this is a couple of years later. We were cutting down a tree in our garden. So he had the chainsaw. I said, "Dad, let me have a go. Let me have a go." No, you you I'll do this one. You do the next one. >> Whoever was the previous owners, we didn't see this, but they had put wire, >> barbed wire around the tree. I don't know why how, but we didn't see it was embedded deep in in the bark. Couldn't see it. So the chainsaw kicked

00:27:04

straight down his leg. Could see straight down to his bone. >> He's gone down. I call mom. Mom goes weak. I take my I take my shirt off. Tie around him. I'm 17 and all I want to do is you know like he almost passes out. I all I wanted to do was drive. I just let me drive. I didn't have my driver. Let me drive. Mom goes no. But I remember I just said you but you know but that's just because of the way my dad he just raised me was like if if something bad happened to it he would laugh right and

00:27:34

it just made you a lot tougher but the thing is all my major adventures were with him working on that flipping boat. >> Yeah. >> It was like >> you see so much when you're out at sea, right? >> Yeah. We definitely need to trade a lot more stories. >> Yeah. It's so interesting. Now te tell me a little bit about um when you cuz you you've been in business. I don't want to go into this too much. You used to sell land and property right in in North America.

00:28:02

>> Yes. Yeah. >> Was that that was a journey. >> Yeah, that was a different journey. Um it was after the Asian financial crisis. Things were very slow for a long time. It was very tough tough years. And I think I'd been become disillusioned in the industry as a whole. You know, I think, you know, because I started out as a passion >> and, you know, just needed that change in scenery. >> Uh, it was an interesting change. I learn, we talked about sales earlier. >> Yeah. Yeah,

00:28:30

>> I learned to sort of formally uh do sales with the proper training, reading books, attending seminars, and I guess you could say I'd summarize it as from cottage to corporate, >> you know, proper corporate sales. >> We got to visit the the cities where we syndicated lands. Austin, Texas, Phoenix, Arizona, Dallas, Fort Worth. >> Wow. >> Fascinating. HD. >> Well, if you look at if you look at those places, Austin in particular, now it's blown up. >> It's it's incredible.

00:28:58

>> It's huge. Yeah, >> you know. >> Yeah, >> Joe Rogan's recently popularized it, but before that it was really kicking off. >> Yeah, it's an amazing model. You know, basically they research and they buy land in the path of growth, you know, big projects, 100 acres, 200 acres, syndicate those, build the master plans. Um, and they're the the future hotspots for development. They wait for the growth to move out and then >> you know, you know, when you described

00:29:23

it, I've always been a cowboy western fan and and I was recently watching Yellowstone and some of the prequels, but it's kind of like that you're going into the new frontier. >> Yeah. >> Right. And you're deciding, right, this is where potentially this is going to be a homestead for a lot of people. >> Very much. Very much. >> Yeah. It's like, do you remember watching ET? I remember watching ET and and movies like um >> what was that movie? Poltergeist. And

00:29:48

the only reason why I mention that there were a couple of shots in those movies where they're looking down at this plot of land that they built 100 houses or 200 houses and it's just like almost seemingly in the middle of nowhere. >> Yeah. >> But fast forward two decades later is the epicenter of a whole, you know, nuclear. >> Exactly. Yeah. You've just got to look at JB right now, similar thing. It's all the land scarved out. >> Yeah. Amazing. become big.

00:30:12

>> So, so you know when you look at your experiences dealing with you know the high net worth the ultra high net worth globally and in Asia >> what do you what have you you know observed in terms of their buying habits what is it that they do well you know when they're looking to analyze things what are they thinking what are they talking to you about be in in a land acquisition or or a yacht >> yeah I think I think the successful ones I've seen they look long >> term

00:30:41

Uh most of my investors were actually um smaller investors at the time in in in world in land investments. >> Yeah. >> But the savvy investors would buy lands which were longer term. The small investor would want short-term and the ones that actually did better in the end were the long-term investors, the 20-year projects. Um somehow they had that that foresight to um do it the other way around if you like. What do you find? I mean, because we've been through multiple recessions, you and I

00:31:12

were of that age, but what what did what's your takeaway in terms of mindset, both for you as a businessman, but the people that you've worked with and served? >> How to rebound from from a recession? >> Yeah, that that's a tough one. Um, a quintessential question, I might say. Been dying to say that. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a tough one. I mean to be honest I wasn't prepared for the Asian financial crisis. It was so sudden. >> Yeah. >> I remember you know sitting in Jakarta

00:31:42

having a haircut uh which would normally cost $15$20. Suddenly it was under $6 with the exchange difference >> and and people were buying stock motorcars. Yeah. >> The dealers held >> um exchanging US dollars. Obviously there was a huge advantage uh big bargains. So it it was it was a crash. It was an outright crash. Um, obviously the high luxury goods business was affected overnight. All of the client base I'd built up and we had a lot at the time, you know, for new boats and

00:32:17

brokerage yachts. Um, a lot of hot prospects on the oil of uh converting closing >> and that's the first thing was shut down is any luxury purchase. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You had poor man uh rich man's flea markets literally. >> Yeah. Uh so that that was that was horrible. And you know it it put me in a tail spin. I didn't know what to do. >> Luckily uh what evolved and what I saw was that basically uh for every door that closes a new one opens. And what

00:32:48

happened is uh I got a call from my former boss. The guy was actually held at gunpoint. So he he he survived that. Um >> respect. >> And he said uh how's the market? I said nothing. He said, "It's going booming here up in Hong Kong." He was in Hong Kong. He said, "You know, literally you tie two sticks together and they'll buy it in New Zealand." Said, "Right, okay. Let's start tying sticks together." And what it was New Zealanders in Australia

00:33:15

initially and then later Americans, there was such a favorable exchange advantage that they would come to Southeast Asia, it was worth them shipping the boats back to their home ports. >> Amazing. >> And and you know, there was a price advantage. I remember that year at this Fort Lauderdale boat show, I think 1999. >> Yeah. >> There was a whole line of uh Asian brokerage yachts that were bought by investors. >> Yeah. >> Um >> and there's an there's a great point in

00:33:43

that because there's always an opportunity. It's like during COVID, you know, extremely wealthy people were buying fleets of of everything. You know, a aviation went through the roof for some people with a lot of money cuz, you know, you've got the purchasing power. >> Yeah. talking about Fort Lauderdale. It was really weird. So after my dad died, >> yeah, >> we're bit all over the place because we're friends. So So if you don't mind, I'll share that this story. So I went

00:34:07

back. He died the day that I arrived. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. It was it was he waited for my brother and I to to get back. Um and then later that day, I was waiting for my wife to arrive. So >> you know, in Ireland, there are only three places in the Republic of Ireland that can, you know, where you can cremate somebody. Yeah. >> Because it's a Catholic country. is a cremation. So that was hours away. So I was going through old videos and I found a videoape of him and you could I

00:34:35

could only see a glimpse of him once in the reflection of a window. He was in the US and he was either in Miami or Fort Lauderdale. I can't remember which one. Um it was probably Miami at a boat show. >> Yeah. >> And I said, "Mom, I I don't remember dad going there." Cuz I thought I remembered all the trips that we made. And she told me, "No, your dad was doing a reconnaissance trip. wanted us to move to Florida. >> And I said, "What happened?" And she she

00:34:58

shut it down unless he had a proper job. So, he'd run a business. It had failed. It didn't do well. And um that was his dream. >> And in that moment, I felt very guilty because I'd never ever asked my father, "What were your dreams? What was his dreams? What were his ambitions?" And I never asked him. There's no way he would have loved his job. He was working outside as a builder, you know, in the heat and the cold. And I felt terrible. And then um later on because I was on my

00:35:26

own for quite a few hours I was just thinking you know what it's always been my dream to live in the US and at some point your dreams they they fade away don't they to the point sometimes you forget them when you become a father and you know you become responsible and then I said to Tara I said my wife I said honey >> um I want to move to the US and I told her the story she goes how are we going to do it I said I don't know but we're going to move to the US and then a few months later we did a four week wrecky

00:35:52

trip to the US and I said look why don't you we talked about her career why don't you you know consider doing your PhD and that's how we we ended up moving there but again it's down because he was it's the flipping boats he was looking at boats at a boat show >> um talk to me talk to me about defining success because you've had like myself different struggles and different stages of your your career your personal life and people young people always ask me what's success and it means different

00:36:26

things to different people at different points in their life but what have you found it to mean to be >> I think you know a lot of people measure it in terms of monetary value >> and don't get me wrong I think money is you know extremely important especially when you got children you got to afford a good education a good standard of living Singapore ain't cheap as we know >> but I think money is a lot of things but it's not everything I think that's when I was younger it was very much started

00:36:52

with the passion. I got a taste for the money. I was driven by money for a period but that's when I started to get disillusioned >> and that's where I started to sort of lose interest uh in the industry uh because I realized it wasn't quite what I was seeking >> and that's when I I sort of I turned to other things. Now with the advantage of hindsight I'm back to the yacht business after 10 years 12 years in property. >> Yeah. um pursuing the passion again, but

00:37:22

from a much different angle. Much more different angle. You know, back to the sea. Um hands-on chartering, which enables me to get out onto the water more. >> Yeah. >> And allows me to, you know, share the my passion, enjoyment with other people. >> Yeah. >> You know, you don't have to own a boat basically. >> It goes a long way. Well, well, one of the things I found is like I I went I took my family to Kenya last December >> and it's it's an expensive trip. We

00:37:50

found a reasonably affordable way of doing it. But what made the trip was >> uh our driver and guide, Robert, >> because he was he was like an encyclopedia. I mean, he would test us and sometimes you'd think, flipping hell, we're going back to school here, right? Um but he made that journey so enjoyable and and going out with you, same thing, right? So I'm I'm kudos to you for doing that. Now, what people won't know is we know each other through Kush Ahmed, who is my ex- business

00:38:18

partner, one of my best friends. Me, too. >> How did you get to meet Kush originally? Was it in the mosque? >> I think it was actually with you. I think he had seen me in the mosque and I think um a white face is not that common in the mosque. >> Yeah. >> And I think we were passing through Raffles's place and he was having a sandwich with you. >> Okay. >> And I think he came over and he said, "Are you the guy from the mosque?" And >> Oh, did he?

00:38:36

>> You were there, I'm sure. >> Was I? >> I'm pretty sure. >> Okay. I don't remember. Okay. Okay, that's what it that's what it was. >> Yeah. >> So, how how did you find Islam or or how did it find you? >> Well, it was actually after the Asian financial crisis when everything crashed and as I said, I was feeling disillusioned with the industry anyway. And uh you know, I'd done pretty well at that point. And I actually became pretty depressed, I'd

00:39:03

say, pretty down on things. And I'd gone through a period of introspection, reflection. I don't think I'd slept for six days and I was seeing a doctor. I didn't know what was wrong with me or not if you've ever been through that. >> No, not not to that extent. >> Yeah. So, he was uh prescribing sleeping pills um >> because you can't function without sleep. >> Yeah. >> And I knew that wasn't the path to take and so I was looking at other things. I

00:39:28

started looking at religion and I asked him one day, I said, "I'm thinking of turning to religion. What do you think?" But I'm I really don't think medication's the right path. to my surprise because he's a a doctor. He said I that's I really encourage that. >> Really? >> He had just actually got back from his pilgrimage in Lords. >> Okay. >> And he quoted a verse from the Holy Bible and he said, "The man without religion is is like a shroom in the

00:39:55

desert that dries up and wilts. He doesn't know when the good times coming or or the bad times." And um whereas the man with religion is like a shroom in the stream that's constantly fed and watered and >> wow. >> So I think that that was profound and it was a it was a very defining moment from from there on >> because I had been looking at Islam. I I decided I'm going to go back >> to the uh Darlam which is the Muslim Converts Association >> and you know I'm going to look at this

00:40:26

more seriously. I thought I thought well what Kush always told me it's you're reverting not converting because you we're all born Muslim. That's what he he told me anyway every day. >> I think the reverts we don't after a while we just become Muslim. Yeah. >> So yeah but it's yeah I can understand uh how a born Muslim Muslim would see that. >> What what a journey. So how many years have you been Muslim now? >> It's it's 23 years. Um just to go back a

00:40:49

little bit on that story. We won't elaborate but >> I remember that that very next day um because uh that was it was really poignant. I decided to go down to the Converse Association. I got in the car. I turn on the radio and there's these young voices singing this this beautiful song in Arabic and it was really calming and it was strange because I always listened to the BBC news. I don't know how it got onto that channel. And when I arrived there, the chap that was sort of teaching me

00:41:20

the basics, he was sitting on the doorstep and he was having a smoke casually and he said, "What what are you doing?" I said, "I you know, well, I come to learn to pray if it's okay." Sure. Matter of fact, and I opened the newspaper while I was waiting in the reception and it was the day that Christopher Ree Reeves, Superman, died. >> Wow. >> And that was profound. I I you know Superman dead at whatever age and I thought that's that's me >> you know that's the ego that's um

00:41:50

>> left an indelible impression in your mind. Yeah, because you know we all think at you know a certain age that it's us you know uh we we we control things and that was the day you know I submitted I did my first prayer >> wow >> you know the head touches the the ground and I started to wonder you know why why do people do that why do you know literally millions if not more than a billion do that and you know the realization came you know >> and well and you stayed with it because

00:42:17

I'll be candid with you I know a lot of men that have converted to Islam >> but they didn't stay Muslim, >> right? So, it's it's uh for me, if if you're going to do that, it has to be about you. >> Yeah. >> It can't be about your partner if you're doing it for the wrong reasons. And and you know, it really has to be very deep and meaningful. I mean, Kush Kush on a daily basis when we work together, he would say, "You're a heathen, Paul."

00:42:42

>> And I would always tease him because, you know, kindness is at the core of everything that I do. I told you this. And I I would always, you know, disagree with him about things half the time just to wind him up. >> But I remember this time this beggar came up to us in Market Street >> back then before it's changed now >> in a raffle's place and this guy had a colosttomy bag. >> Yeah. >> And he was begging for money, you know. So Kush gave him a little bit of money

00:43:12

and um I said to him, "Is that is that real?" He goes, "What do you mean?" I said, "Is that real?" >> Yeah. >> Goes. I said, "Well, listen, you look very healthy." >> And I didn't give him any money. Chris did. >> And then I got up and I as I looked around, I saw him running around the corner. I said to Chris, >> and I said, "It was a good effort." And he said, "You know, Paul, you should give I think I told you this before the

00:43:37

other day. You should give >> money to that beggar. You should give." I said, "Why?" He goes, "He could be an angel in disguise." And I said, "By definition, you're not going to look good in the eyes of God because you've only given him money because he may be an angel in disguise. You should have given him money to help him." And he pondered that. He goes, "Yeah, maybe you're right." But what he's such a great guy and I I love working with him

00:44:02

and we're still very good friends to this day. >> He's amazing guy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I saw him over Christmas. But just on that point, there's um quite a you know wellused story. There was an 11th century scholar, Islamic scholar. He came to Europe, he went to UK in particular. When he got back, people asked him, you know, what what did you learn? And he said, I I saw Muslims, I saw Islam without Muslims and I saw um Muslims without Islam. So what he was saying, I'm not referring to Kush by the

00:44:32

way. He was saying basically there was Muslims that don't practice. I mean there's practicing Muslims, non-practising, but he said there's people who are not Muslims and I I thought about yourself when I when I relate the story because um it's all about values. >> Yeah. >> From 100%. >> I know you so well and and I know you know you got such a good heart, great intentions, you do things for other people. >> Thank you. >> You believe in karma >> and

00:44:59

>> No, that's that's Islam. That's Islam. Yeah. >> So you don't need to be a Muslim. >> Yeah. to be practicing the virtues and the teachings of Islam and any religion. I think >> I told you because it's it's funny because you and I talk about this and I talk about it to my team. Um kindness is at the core, you know, like like um >> Kush called a fellow one day, >> hey, how you doing? Do you want to meet for a coffee? And the guy goes to him,

00:45:27

what do you want? >> And Kush said, oh nothing, you know, I just thought I'd give you a call. Go, Kush, what do you want? You You only call me when you want something. >> Yeah. >> And by the way, that is not true of Kush. Kush put the phone down and he's really pissed off. >> Yeah. >> And what it was, it was that fell's uh I think it was his 40th birthday or it was his birthday. It was it was a significant birthday and Kush had got him a gift. He was just going to go and

00:45:50

meet him in the office and give >> That's good. That's good. >> And I said to him, >> "That guy sees you through his own lens >> because he probably only calls people >> when he wants something." >> Yes. >> Right. So I said, you know, we have to get past that. Don't worry about that. Right. And um but anyway, you know, I I I the thing that I've learned is, you know, and I wanted to ask you about this. What I've learned is as a business

00:46:15

owner, as as a manager, as as a business partner, things change as you become a father, right? Cuz you're you're having to provide for your family, but you're always having to think, well, look, I I always pretend my kids are watching me like a fly in a wall. I pretend my parents are. So, when some people say, "Well, why do you work out so hard?" There are two key reasons. Number one, I used to suffer from depression and it still comes back to haunt me. So, exercise >> helps that.

00:46:42

>> Yeah. endorphins. >> But the second thing is is I always as a motivation, I pretend my mom and dad are watching, >> right? And and I want them to think my boy's doing it, right? And I want my kids to see it. >> And it's the same in my business. So like when when you're here today or when I have clients or candidates around, I want my kids to see it. How has being a dad changed your approach to business? >> Yeah, very very much so. I think I think you know coming to Islam, becoming a

00:47:07

father, um you know, you you've got to reform. you know, you you grow up uh long gone are the days of doing riatas every weekend. You know, your priorities shift totally >> and certainly becoming a father again at 57 now. >> Yeah. >> With a fourmonth-old is it's >> you gave your age away now. You see, you didn't want to before, but you should be you should be proud of it. >> You can work it out from the preceding Yeah. >> dates and so on. >> But yeah, it's it's a whole new lease of

00:47:37

life, >> of course. Uh business-wise, I think is the best thing that's happened to me. >> Yeah. >> Because now I'm very very focused. I I've suddenly getting great visions for the business. >> I love it. >> Uh industry contributions. >> Working with people that I really like and enjoy saying, right, I want to work with these people. >> Having that collaboration is important, right? >> Collaboration with people that you can trust and you enjoy working with.

00:48:01

>> Yes. and setting yourself up to attract like-minded people, clientele, >> and >> it's everything. >> Business partners, associates, everything. Yeah. >> You know, you know, it's um what what I find really interesting is, you know, I'm from I'm from the main streets of London. I've got people My brother laughs when he see he doesn't he didn't see a lot of the stuff that I saw. Maybe because he had me as a big brother, but you know, and when you've been in

00:48:28

business as long as we have, we've all seen some nasty things. >> And and I I basically I've got a no [ __ ] policy. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, I I always go in thinking the best of people when I can. And then if you get burnt, you realize, no, that's not going to work. I'll move on from that. But I think kindness and integrity, it's just there. You know, your reputation is just there. And the other day, someone said something to me. He sent me a message and I haven't had a

00:48:51

chance to respond because I think he blocked me >> and he WhatsApp me. He said, "I've heard that you said this about me." Boom, boom, boom. He was very upset. And then I I need to see him and I want to say, "Well, look, if you've known me for all these years and you've heard this one thing, do you think it's real or do you think maybe someone said something to to stir your emotion?" >> Yeah. >> Right. Cuz people don't they don't think

00:49:13

I always use rational deductive logic. If you know someone and you've known someone for 10, 20 years and you've never heard anything negative before, is it out of character? Is it real? Do you know what I mean? >> I do. And and you and I have talked a lot about we talk a lot about values and characters as friends. You and I on the same page as that. I want to do some rapid fire with you. So I've got some great questions for you if you don't mind. So from professional perspective,

00:49:37

>> what's the biggest leadership lessons >> that the sea have taught you? the you know uh don't mess with the sea. Yeah. >> I mean it's it's a d it's a dangerous place >> for real. >> Um I lost a friend of mine about seven years ago. One of the best yacht brokers, most successful in Asia. >> Sorry to that. How how >> uh what well what happened? He actually his sort of a culmination of life's career. He bought his own 62 foot bento.

00:50:01

He was the agent. His family was in the Philippines. His son and his wife and he was taking the boat home, you know, after commissioning in Hong Kong. There was a typhoon out there and you know very low probability that it would turn around. >> Very very low and it and it happened you know it happened. So you know don't underestimate the scene. >> No 100%. >> Yeah. >> When a captain in the yacht what's the one non-negotiable principle that you have to live by? >> I mean always safety pool. I mean in in

00:50:33

Singapore obviously with the charter market to some extent we I wouldn't say compromise but we have to be aware that you know people will drink. Um I'm I'm not a drinker. There was a case a few years ago one of the captains of Filipino good friend of mine he took the boat out. One of the guys on board one of the charterers he was already drunk early morning charter jumped over the side in the channel with all the fairies coming. And I said what did you do? had turned the boat around, came straight back,

00:51:02

curtailed the charter. He was a lawyer apparently and was, you know, shouting and screaming and >> threatening to sue. But >> yeah, you you you can't compromise safety. You know, there's other passengers involved and you got to be able to draw that that red line. >> No, listen, that's so important. How do you balance being both a captain and a business owner? >> It's pretty easy, Paul. I mean, it's my hobby, isn't it? You know, and I don't have time spare time being a father. So,

00:51:27

yeah. I mean I I keep my hands in as you know I do freelance captaincy as well. >> Yeah. >> It keeps my you know keeps my eye on the ball. I you know down at the grassroots. Love it. Uh >> that's the key. You love it. >> Yep. This passion fueling the passion. >> In your experience what differentiates a good charter from an unforgettable one. >> I'm I'm finding out more and more that you you know we're talking about passion enjoying the experience not just of the

00:51:52

charter but of the booking process. M >> so I try to make that as an enjoyable part so it's something they're really looking forward to a few days before the charter I'll call them or send them a message >> I like that excited >> I'd keep an eye on the weather pattern >> and you know so I'm I'm as much a part of it as as they are >> and and um like that day that I did it with my family you greeted us and we're all pumped up and it was it was great

00:52:17

mate it was absolutely beautiful >> thanks Paul >> um how has the yaching industry in Asia evolved since you first started it in the 80s must be huge. >> Yeah, obviously night and day. We didn't have any marinas back then. We've got, I think, five big marinas in Singapore now. >> Madness, >> you know, super yachts. Uh, I'm really looking forward, as I say, in the next 5 10 years when the sort of great greater city leisure corridor opens. They haven't revealed plans, but I'm hopeful

00:52:42

there'll be a lot more because you got going to have a lot of waterfront housing, mixed use, both both public houses, condominiums, landed properties, >> shopping malls. Just out of curiosity, would you ever live on a housebo? >> I did in Hong Kong. >> You did? Right. That's the right place to do it. >> Yeah. My parents bought me a junk and I lived on Yeah. Several years and I charted it. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Have you got some pictures? You have to

00:53:04

send me some pictures. >> I'll give you the pictures. >> Yeah. We'll put them up on the post. That's That's fantastic. >> Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. >> What's a misconception people often have about yacht captains? >> Well, I mean, pro probably people think we're all pirates like, you know, is it Jack Sparrow and all those guys? exper >> and the comedies you watch Captain Rom but we're actually quite a you know serious bunch. >> Yeah,

00:53:22

>> I mean we we have our good times but you know I don't drink. I mean that's for personal reasons but >> if if I saw crew uh drinking on a charter I would have a word with them is not a good thing >> especially from insurance uh perspective. Yeah. >> And you know just they keep keep a professional attitude. Obviously >> there was there was I was watching this Netflix special about Charlie Sheen dur during you watch do you see the bit where he ends up in the airplane in the

00:53:51

captain's chair. >> I think go to that part. Yes. I think I >> he and he took it off autopilot for two minutes and the the plane started coming down. I think Yeah. You don't want Charlie Sheen on a line of coat flying the plane >> or maybe maybe several lines. >> Yeah. Um, how do you maintain professionalism when working in a leisure oriented environment? Because it's not easy. Everyone's having a blast and you've got to be the steady Eddie. >> Yeah. I mean, like I said, it's drawing

00:54:16

that line. Sometimes people will push me to take a drink and I said, "No, you know, I don't drink and I'm also the captain." >> Yeah. >> And you know, also a Muslim. I know I'd say that just to help get me off the hook as well. >> Uh, but I I will mix and mingle, have a laugh, but I'll it's their day. It's their party. Yeah. you know, so I'll draw that professional line. >> You know, you know, you probably can't do this in Singapore, but when I uh I

00:54:41

went I took my team to Phuket and Novid, who was my head of Singapore, he's an avid fisherman. I love I love fishing as well. So, he said, "Let's let's charter a fishing boat >> and it was amazing because we caught like 65 70 fish that day." >> And um >> we went to a nearby island. It was a pristine beach. One of the fellas had never seen, you know, white sand and a beach like that. and we had to swim in and it was it was amazing. But why it made me laugh, the poor fell that owned

00:55:08

owned the fishing company, he owned a couple of bars as well. >> Um he's passed away now sadly during COVID. But when I was booking everything, he goes, "Well, what else do you want?" I said, "Well, can you put some beers on the boat and this that and the other?" And he goes, "Do you want any naked women? And if so, how many?" >> It's on the menu. >> It was on the menu. It was literally on the menu. I thought only in Phuket, man. Yeah. >> Um, if you could reform one thing about

00:55:34

the yacht chart industry, what would it be? >> I mean, there's the crewing aspect and the CIQP, which is the customs and immigration, quarantining, and port clearance. >> You know, they've done a fantastic job. They've opened up the borders uh for yachts to pass into uh Rio Islands, for example. >> Yeah. >> But the thing is, it's still costly. It's efficient, but it's costly. It's 1,200 bucks. you know, if you want to do a half day charter or days charter to

00:55:58

the real, uh, it's as much as the cost of a half day charter for a small owner. >> Crazy. >> Uh, if they were to be able to reduce that somehow and instead of yachts going once a year, if they went 10 times a year or once a month, >> Yeah. >> I think, you know, the trade flows, fuel cost, you know, the fuel, the crew. >> Yeah. >> There'd be a lot more on both sides of the border. you know, in uh I don't think they have this in Dubai in Singapore, correct me if I'm wrong, but

00:56:23

in Dubai, a friend of mine, Deep, >> he's my he's a brother to me. He um got his boat license >> and he signed up to a club and basically you pay a monthly subscription. >> Yes. >> But you're allowed to take any of the their boats out, you know, and you're effectively paying a minimum amount really for the fuel. >> Yeah. >> And then you can, you know, so what happened was he said, "You want to go out?" And we went out and we were back

00:56:47

by half 8 in the morning and it was pretty much empty out there. We had everything to ourselves. Went throughout past the Atlantis, the Palm and I had a climb meeting that morning and I was smiling and I looked like I had a bit of a suntan. He goes, "You're so you know pumped up." And I said, "Mate, this is what I did. If I was living in Dubai, I'd be doing this every morning." Yeah. >> Can't do that in Singapore, can you? >> There's there is there is the Birch

00:57:09

Asia. They do a similar thing. Yeah. Great service. >> Where is based? >> Yeah. Out of Sentosa and Keell. >> Oh, really? I'll I'll hook you up. >> Can you? >> Yeah. >> Because that was But it was just it was Do you know what I mean? It was just special. Very very special. >> Um >> systems and philosophies. You've managed over 130 charters in a year. What systems or philosophies keep you consistent in that process? >> Well, definitely my wife has she she

00:57:34

keeps me consistent. She's a stickler and she's, you know, she's a rock. She's right behind me all the time. She always oversees things, makes sure that, you know, I'm disciplined. Today, in today's world with AI, it's like having a team of five people, you know, a lawyer, >> um, someone to do all your drafting. >> Isn't it funny how quickly that's changed the way we operate >> even in the last one year? >> But isn't it weird though? I seem busier

00:58:00

than ever, even with AI. >> Yeah. There's just more things to do now. You can do it more efficiently. And >> this will crack you up. My 10-year-old, she was nine at the time. >> Yeah. >> I didn't find out that, but basically, when I was entering data into, I'd say, "Hi, chat. can you leave me this draft message or whatever? And he would always finish it off with a banana and a monkey sign. >> So I was thinking that's a bit cheeky. And I said, can you please stop

00:58:22

referring to me as banana monkey. >> Chad GBT's got a a sense of humor because now there's a [ __ ] sign next to it. Anyway, so I said banana monkey and a and a poo sign. You know that. So I'm thinking what's going on? And then I was telling my wife and then I heard a chuckle >> and I look across the room. Ivana, my now then nineyear-old, >> she has asked chat GBT to refer to me as a monkey >> on on your own private account. >> Yeah. Isn't that hilarious?

00:58:52

>> Amazing. I have great chats with Chat GBT, by the way. >> Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. >> But but it's it's gone it's becoming people's friends. >> Well, Star Wars, you know, the early Star Wars, you could see the the friendships. It's it's a real thing. >> It's a real thing, but it's scary, you know. >> Yeah. To some extent. You know, our grandkids will probably have relations with, you know, have a boyfriend or a girlfriend that's a robot.

00:59:13

>> Yeah. AI scares me. It excites me. But, you know, before we're lucky, our generation, but two generations from now, >> Exactly. >> It's going to be terminated. It's going to be game over. >> Yep. >> Um, in terms of decision- making, what's the most challenging decision you face whilst at sea? I mean, I didn't make this decision, but there was a time we were uh down in the Philippines doing a delivery from Hong Kong to Singapore. Uh we were going through Portugua, I think

00:59:41

it was, and it was quite a rough day, very high winds. Um cruising along and we saw this fisherman, just a small guy, he's almost like a grandfather. His wife was there, I think. Um false, you know, no teeth, that sort of very old aged person. and they were being blown out to sea. The engine was down and Paul, his name was Paul also, he'd spent many years in the Philippines diving and he said, "We got to, you know, we got to rescue these guys." Yeah, >> that's it. You know, they're not going

01:00:09

to survive this. >> The owner was on board. He was paranoid. He was worried about pirate. And it was a case of, you know, do we rescue him or not? For Paul, it was a no-brainer. >> Yeah. >> And I I obviously, you know, learned from that day. >> Yeah. >> We pulled him. We probably saved his life. I'm sure we did. Had it been the owner's decision, the guy wouldn't have been, you know, he would have he was worried that he was setting us up. Pirates would have Exactly. Um

01:00:35

>> Yeah. But you know, you have to you have to ask yourself, you know, you have to ask yourself like yesterday there was an old woman crossing the road uh where there's a zebra crossing. It's the six battery road and she really was struggling. She had a trolley. >> Yeah. >> And I pulled the car and put the hazard lights on. It was is a bit dangerous, >> right? I couldn't move anyway cuz she was crossing road. But I got out >> nice >> to help her over and she was insistent

01:00:58

she wouldn't let me help her. >> But I was just there and I just I felt so terrible. But it's like my point is in those moments you've got to do the right thing. >> Yeah. >> And and look, if there were pirates, >> you just got to deal with it >> because I wouldn't want it on my conscience either. >> Yeah. It's a judgment call. And you know what you did sets an example to other motorists. You know, we should do more of them. >> Well, in Singapore, no one is kind on

01:01:19

the road. I always find like, you know, I always give someone grace. This will crack you up. So, >> I've I've I've I've not had any points, tickets, or anything since I was 18. >> Good lord. >> Which is very unusual, right? I don't have road rage. >> Uh I think most people with road rage, the reality is their only feel that they can scream at people cuz they're behind the wheel of a car. If they were right next to you, they wouldn't do anything.

01:01:42

Yeah. >> Um but this guy was honking the horn at me a couple of years ago like honking the horn very aggressively >> signs at me and this that and I put the window down and um and then I said to him, "Are you having a bad day?" Goes, "Yeah, I'm having a bad day." I said, "Well, I'm terribly sorry about that. I'm also having a bad day." Goes, "Yeah, why are you having a bad day?" And I said, "Well, my mom's just passed away,

01:02:07

right? So, I'm going to have to go back and and bury her." And he you should have seen his face >> change. >> He goes, "I'm sorry about that." I said, "It's okay." I said, "I'm sorry if I cut you up. I didn't mean it." He goes, "Have a good day." I said, "You too. Take care." Now, I didn't cut him up because I'm a bloody good driver and he was an imbecile. >> Yeah. >> But I deescalated things and I'm glad I

01:02:27

didn't because in those moments you it could spill over, >> right? Unfortunately, now there are cameras everywhere. So, you you got to think twice about doing anything. Um, >> let's talk about personal. What first drew you to the ocean? Adventure, solitude, freedom, >> mixture of thing. I mean, it was never me being drawn to the ocean. I think the ocean drew itself to me if you know I wasn't looking for it. I didn't know it was out there. But after discovering it

01:02:54

Yeah. I mean, it's just like it's the vast openness. You can contemplate, you can gather your thoughts. >> Yeah. >> All that noise, you know, disappears basically. >> You know what? It's the most magical but most scary place it can be. >> Yeah. >> You know what I Yeah. >> Which destination has left you the with the deepest mark on your soul that you've really thought this place is amazing? >> Well, the funny thing was, you know, I told you the story earlier and I looked

01:03:18

years and years later, in fact, only recently, I looked up where that reef was. >> Yeah. Where was it? >> It was opposite Jedha. Um, actually, sorry, more precisely, correction, it was Mecca. >> Really? >> No, I'm sorry. Medina. >> Really? >> Opposite Medina. Literally due west of Medina. you and you you hadn't you hadn't become Musl Muslim at the time, right? >> Yeah. So, I think looking back and reflecting to me it's like stop >> and just take take it all in and you

01:03:46

have to >> stop stop moving so fast. >> Mate, let me let me just tell you I I have had the the great fortune even though I've worked for it >> to, you know, I love fly fishing. I'm not very good at I don't I've only done it a few times, >> but I've gone to Alaska, Montana, New Zealand, >> Canada, Ireland, you know, like and and >> the thing about fly fishing, it's probably like people with the golf, but fly fishing for me is you're really in a

01:04:12

secluded area. >> You're one with nature. >> And this fell said to me, "Are you going to be upset if we don't catch anything today because it's not looking good?" And I said, "How can I be upset?" But I said, "Let me tell you something. I'm going to catch a fish today. I didn't come all the way till I ask her not to catch a fish." That's you, right? The very last 10 minutes of the trip. I thought you I never I'd never give up.

01:04:38

Do you know what I mean? Never never never give up. But when I was in those places, you I'm always taken by history because I was thinking people came all the way to Alaska to mine for gold. >> They're panning in gold in this river. How the hell there's such a journey to get to get here? So, and there aren't many places on the planet that are untouched. >> Do you know what I mean? And when you're in the ocean, you feel like it's untouched because you don't Sometimes

01:05:00

you won't see another another ship, another soul for hours, >> days. Sometimes. >> Yeah. Days. Crazy. >> Um, >> if your life were a voyage, what would be the name of your yacht? >> I' I've always thought in in that context, never a dull moment. I mean, but some of the stories I described and we love it. You know, we can trade a lot of stories, but >> that would be a good one. >> Yeah, I think that's, you know, it's quite apt. >> You know, you know what I learned from

01:05:27

my wonderful late father-in-law? He he owned a shipping company >> and uh one of the ships was named after my wife. >> Yeah. >> And Yeah. And he Tara Maria and he always said to me, he taught me this. He said, "A ship is like a woman. If you're unlucky, you can you can buy the wrong ship. And if you marry the wrong woman, you're effed. So he said, "Make sure if you if you're going to buy a [ __ ] you get the right one." And you know what I mean? >> He wasn't he wasn't wrong.

01:06:02

>> Not far wrong. >> He wasn't wrong. Um, which book or film or piece of music best captures your relationship with the sea? When you're out there, what's what's the vibe for you? >> Yeah. I mean, for me, I you know, in my late years, I've got into mysticism. Yeah. You know, Sufism. So there's a book called The Secret of Secrets. Okay. And it starts off with the biography of Shik Abdul Kadal Galani and then it's his teachings you know about discipline

01:06:25

of the soul and so on. And so that's what the sea does for me. It's like we say with the vast openness uh you're like a shepherd >> tending to your flock, keeping everything safe. And I believe you know a lot of the prophets Jesus and Muhammad they were they were shepherds. >> Yeah. And it's the time, you know, you can really contemplate. There's no distractions. >> You can sort of see your future and and it's all that noise is >> all the white noise is is dialed out.

01:06:57

So, >> it's what it's all about. Yeah, that book is >> Now, now just just to wrap up, bro, I will I will so I'm going to include a recent trip that you and I went to have a look around some of the boats so so the guys can see what it is cuz I I know for a fact I've got a lot of friends >> um that that would be interested. Some people have been out on a boat, others that haven't, but it's a golden opportunity >> and um I'll put the details how everyone

01:07:22

can reach out to you. >> Tell me about the project. My pleasure. Tell me about the projects that you're working on and the things that we can look to forward to for you Tim next year in your business. >> Well, what we're trying to do is change the way things are uh being done in the sense that you know there's a lot of m multiple listing sites there. >> Yeah. >> And I said as I was saying earlier, I think the experience really has to take on into account the booking process, a

01:07:47

certain you know raise the standards basically a certain amount of education throughout that. >> Yeah. And I want to make that more of a concier service. So it's more of a um process where you curate it. You create a charter >> not just an ordinary multiple service where you go on and you get the information. Uh we compile it for a charter. Give them three nice options. Uh to so basically change the way it's done uh to make >> that whole service. >> Yeah. a white glove more of a white

01:08:20

glove service without paying having to pay. >> I think white glove service for everything. It's you know I I stayed I stayed at the Mandarin Oriental in Taipei >> and listen I'm 56 and a half. I'm not very tall but with all of us >> when we were getting in they make sure you don't bump your head. They put your hand there so you don't bump your head. I thought it was very sweet. A Mandarin Oriental in Hong Kong which is one of my favorite hotels in the world. It's not

01:08:44

the Flash. It's not the newest, >> but you know, you stay there and I I don't get corporate discounts cuz they're a small company, but you know, I I call them say >> routinely. They're so well trained. Excuse me, what time is checkout? >> What time is your flight, Mr. Quinn? >> Um, it's at 6 p.m. >> What we can do is we can get you a late checkout so you can leave at 3:00. Does that work for you? >> Thank you so much. It It's just small.

01:09:10

They they look immediately. If they can upgrade you, they can upgrade you. And I I just think worldass service >> um just goes a long way. And I'll tell you one last story. There was a place called Prakati >> um down near what's the name of that place? >> Portofino. >> No, no, not no in Singapore. >> In Singapore. Portofino is beautiful by the way. Stunny. >> There's uh I can't remember. Anyway, so the restaurant's gone now. >> I know. I think I know. Yeah.

01:09:34

>> So it's gone. It was right by >> where? Near Marina Bay. Where's the There's a next to Fitton Bay Hotel. That area. Anyway, it'll come back. >> Yeah, >> there's a guy called DH owned it. But what happened was I turn up, I placed a team of bankers and I arrived halfway >> and I I grabbed a late dinner and they wouldn't let me pay and I ordered a couple of drinks. >> So the next time I went in there, I went in there for lunch on my own and I

01:10:01

thought I I'll go in there and read a book. >> The guy said, "Mr. Quinn, welcome back." >> Now, I didn't pay. How the hell did he remember my name? And he said, "Would you like this again?" >> Right. >> And I said, "Yeah, why not? It was delicious. Thank you so much." >> And then he brought me a drink. I said, "It's it's lunchtime. I I you know, I don't drink during the day." And then he said, "Well, we'll leave it there if you

01:10:27

want to." >> It became a boozy afternoon. >> Yeah. >> I go back the next time I'm in there. He remembers because a friend of mine joined later, Elton joined me later. He remembered his name >> and I asked him and he said, "Well, we've been trained to do it, but they make such an effort." >> Yeah. >> Right. It was It just blew me away and it's free. It's cheap. >> Right. And give, by the way, giving that one drink away, it was quite clever

01:10:56

because I ended up buying a bottle. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Do you know what I mean? But it's just that that service >> and the enjoyment as a as a service provider. >> Yeah. even if they don't appreciate it, you say, "Well, you know, you made the gesture." >> Now, now, one last two last things because I wanted to talk about this. We were talking off camera about when we were younger in sales, what you'd buy yourself as a little gift, and you you

01:11:17

and I both love calligraphy and Mlon pens. >> So, tell tell me tell the audience a little bit about that because, you know, not nowadays, Mlon pens, they're not a thing, but when we were growing up, it would be a bit of a status symbol. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I like to write and it's um I love fountain pens. You know school we learned to write properly. It wasn't a keyboard and I felt actually you know even in the early 90s it was something that we had you know we're

01:11:44

less accustomed to when computers came in >> and I remember going through Zurich airport >> my boss had a a mlong big thick mlong. That's interesting. It's it's nice to hold that >> good >> pen. It's nice nice and yeah good weight in the hand. So yeah, I just started buying uh after I closed every big deal, I got the whole set. So I got the roller ball, the the fountain pen, obviously along the way, I lost a few, so I had to replace them. I'd get different pens.

01:12:13

>> Yeah. >> Then I'd collect the wallet as well, the small credit card holder, and >> it's things that you can value. >> It's it's so interesting because I'm I'm a stickler for history. Yeah. >> And you know one I did a recent um career coaching master class which talks about samurai and the samurai had a balance of the brutality of using the sword and the elegance but calligraphy. You have to be able to do both. And one of my favorite sayings

01:12:39

>> is how I do anything is how I do everything. >> Right. So so what I love about the Mlon pen, the one that I told you about, the first one I bought, it was you would screw it out and then the nib would come out. >> Yes. >> And then it was so beautiful. It was small. It was small. >> Um, so it was discreet, but it was beautiful. And then I always say to guys, look, when you sign your name, you should sign it in blue. >> You know, John Hancock would sign in blue pen. Now, some some companies or

01:13:05

now you're applying for something, they need it in black. >> And then green is MI6007's color for signing. So, I I always like those small details. And lastly, can you just tell us about your beautiful watch cuz because I love that watch. And tell us when you got it because that watch has meaning. Can you show Can you show the camera? Yeah, sure. I just love that one. >> This is actually an Omega Speed Master. >> Place it to this camera, right, Isaac? >> Yep. It's an Omega Speed Master.

01:13:30

>> Can I try it on? >> Yeah, sure. >> Um, I got this early on in my broking days. And again, you know, it's the the early successes that you want to celebrate the wins and buying something nice that you can value. Um, I remember, you know, later generations, I think, you know, when I was selling gland, one of the salesman said, "Oh, that's an old watch." I was sort of like, "Well, yeah, but it's a beautiful watch." >> Cuz he he had the latest Speed Masters.

01:14:01

It's a lot chunkier. >> Yeah. >> And I looked at it. >> What size? What size is that? 38. Remember? >> I'm not sure. So long ago. >> No. No. Because now they're all like um 41s. I've got small wrists. >> Yeah. >> But that watch is 25 years old. More than that, it would have been 2,000. Yeah, about 25 25. It >> It looks less than two years old. Have you changed the strap? >> No, I mean I I regularly just all I do is change the pins and the back. Not

01:14:27

It's a wind up obviously. Um just occasionally the pins. That's all I've changed. I dropped it once in the gym when I was in the changing room and I had to send it back to Switzerland. >> Oh, you did? >> They reset it. >> Yeah, they it was quite expensive. You know, they had to work on the mechanism. >> Yeah. You know, you know it's Mark, my my head of Hong Kong and Thailand. He recently bought that in white and he was eyeing it up. He kind of got me into

01:14:51

what I've never been into watches. >> Well, sorry, that's not So, I grew up reading from the Argos book, the Argos catalog. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I had two things, you know, I grew up in a humble family. There were two things I always looked at. It was the watches in the bags. Don't ask me why. Watches and bags. Watches and bags. So, this watch, funny enough, >> is you got the It's a It's the old Casio. classic. >> They're back in fashion. I bought one

01:15:15

for my daughter recently. >> It's brilliant. So So like this this watch >> I couldn't afford it when I was a kid obviously >> and you know and like you now you get and the thing is my favorite probably my favorite watch to wear is a really cheap Casio that you can buy in the army shop here. $8. It's black. It's small. >> I haven't changed the battery on it for eight nine years and it's indestructible. You know what I mean? Like that's that's a and and I I just

01:15:39

think also I've got a couple of other nice watches, but >> you you're traveling, you're not so worried about it's gets dinged up. Do you know what I mean? >> Tim, it's been an absolute pleasure, man. >> Likewise, Paul. Always a pleasure. It's a very special day. >> And uh next time I'm going to get you to indulge in a cigar with me if I can. >> Let's do that. >> All right, brother. Thank you so much. Thank you, Tim. Cheers. Cheers.

‍