UFC Coach on Strickland, $750K Bonuses & Building Foxgloves | #69

I've gotten seven 50k bonuses. Yeah. Between fighters. My dad was a coach and he was a really good football coach, American football coach. And how he conducted himself on the sideline. You just have to be loud. I need to be loud because I need people to clearly hear what I'm telling them to do. So, I landed in Malaysia. I was in Koala Lumpur. >> How How old were you? >> I had just turned 19. I came here to like train. Within like a month, I end up me and my friend Luke, we basically take over coaching at the gym. We fight Jyn Pulver. >> He's a legend by the way in MMA, right? >> I mean, he's a Hall of Famer now. UFC Hall of Famer. BJ Penn in his prime. >> Yeah. >> And we knock out Jyn's Pulver in Manila. I'm 19 years old. I care about results. I don't really care about anything else. >> I want to win. You can train wherever you want. We could train outside. If you're going to be consistent and we can win, that's all I care about. Everyone ask like, "Oh, how can you tell if a coach is good?" I always tell, "Look at the checkbook." >> Yeah. >> See how many 50k bonuses their five years have picked up. And then talk, you know, my wife calls it ESAG, like internal service and gratitude. >> I love that. >> She's like, "Let's open a gym here." >> You know the difference. >> Well, now you know you don't want to work for no one. >> Yeah. >> You want to work for yourself. It's the home of heavy hands. We're going to put the boxing ring in the center of the pool. >> No way. And we're going to have a fight on March 28th. >> Wow. That would be a spectacle. >> 24 floors up. We are going to do some absolutely crazy things. >> Yeah. >> In 2026. >> I love it. >> Matt, welcome. How are you? >> I'm great. It's good to see you again. >> It's great to see you, brother. Man, what did you get up to over Christmas? >> Um, training. I think like uh you know you have a lot of people in Singapore who don't celebrate Christmas so they're kind of just like >> hey uh you mind opening the gym even though it's closed. >> So uh you know unfortunately not many days off when you're a coach. So >> no days off basically. Now before you introduce yourself I just want to tell you the first time I met you I didn't meet you. I heard you. I heard you in a boxing arena where there were many people, but your voice just bmed through. Are you well known for that? >> Um, yeah. I think it's also goes back to like my dad was a coach and he was a really good football coach, American football coach, and how he conducted himself on the sideline. You just have to be loud. You have to yell. You got helmets on. So when I transitioned to coaching myself, it was more like, okay, I need to be loud because I need people to clearly hear what I'm telling them to do. Not that I'm trying to like overtake anyone else's instructions, but I want my my fighter, my teammates, whatever sport I was coaching in, I want them to hear me clearly. So no, listen, you bring a lot of positive energy. I love it. I absolutely love it. So, for the few audience members that may not know you, can you just give a quick intro to who you are and then we'll we'll unfold the pages of your background story? >> My name is Matt Pelino. Um, I guess you could say like I'm a entrepreneur MMA coach slash hobby card hobbyist enthu enthusiast. Uh, I uh yeah, but yeah, coach. I was uh more coaching for the last 15 years. >> So, growing up, what sport did you fall in love with? Which sport called your name first? Um, actually, American football was probably my favorite sport growing up. I played it for a very long time. Um, unfortunately there's I lived in Florida, which is like the most competitive state for high school football. They always talk about three. It's California, Texas, and and Florida. >> Where in Florida? >> Um, I played out of Orlando, but uh we played pretty much all over mid Florida. So, South Florida as well. And you know, at any time when we were playing a game in in high school, you fast forward five, six years, there could have been like three or four of those guys in the NFL. So, it was like extremely competitive. >> And football is one of those sports that tape measures a lot. >> Yeah. >> So, it's like I mean, I'm 59 on a good day. So, it's just like, you know, I'm not I'm not 44 speed or anything like that. So, you know, I played football all the way into college. But >> what position? >> Um, I played outside linebacker, middle linebacker, defensive line. >> But you you weren't as big back then, right? You were >> No, I was small and I was small because >> I seen pictures of you when you were younger. >> I had to wrestle. So, everyone's like, and I had an older brother who was a big middle linebacker and he's just like, man, you got to lift. You got to get big. And I'm just like, >> man, I'm wrestling 152 next year. I'm not trying to get to 200 lb and then cut 50 lbs. But um you know I I think in high school I specialized on the defensive side. I did play a bit of offense as well, but I would say defense was more of my cup of tea a little bit. >> Yeah. And then you mentioned hockey when what about hockey? >> Um so in Florida like hockey wasn't super popular. It's just >> I would imagine it's non-existent, right? >> Well, yeah. >> To play. >> The thing is is that there was no team in Orlando. So, you had to go to Tampa, which is where the Thunder are or Lightning, excuse me, or South Florida where the Panthers are. And those are like two good teams right now. But when I was growing up, they weren't very good. And um at the TD Waterhouse Center, which is now called the Amway Arena, which is where the Orlando Magic play, they had a semi-pro team called the Orlando Solar Bears. So, like we would go to Solar Bear games growing up because it was like the closest hockey thing you could go to. But, you know, it was super fun and like I just like I just liked hockey. I grew up like watching the Mighty Ducks and >> Oh, yeah. Who didn't? >> Just like I don't know. It just resonated with me like the message throughout the movies and then I was like, "Ah, I like hockey. I would like to ice skate." And then I got on the ice and like nope, I can't ice skate. Not for me, you know? But, uh, I still watch hockey. I mean, my gym merch that I'm wearing now is literally a hockey jersey. >> I love it, man. So, we um yeah, definitely a hockey fan, but uh >> what I was curious to ask you because you've been involved with so many different sports on different levels, is wrestling still the toughest? Cuz that's what you know, I'm a huge MMA fan, not having done any wrestling, it's meant to be the most arduous, >> you know? I think wrestling is it just requires the most consistency. >> Like in wrestling, unlike boxing, like you can knock someone out with a good punch in boxing. In wrestling, you have to work to pin, you know, or you have to work to get a throw. And there are the the occasional, oh, I get a good like head and arm throw or I get a good lat drop and I'm able to stick a guy, but when you're wrestling another good guy, you're not going to fall into those very often. They're almost non-existent. So, it's like a in college it's a sevenminute match. >> Yeah. >> And then in high school, it's a six-minute match. But it's it's it's a it's an intense six minutes and it's very hard to bring that style of wrestling into like a commercial setting because generally if you want to learn wrestling, you want to learn the takedown. >> Yeah. >> But you don't know the type of cardio, the type of setups that come with achieving the pace to get that taked down. Yeah. and you know the average Joe who's coming off his you know nineto-five job not not trying to get into Iowa style wrestling at 6 p.m. with a bunch of kids. >> So I think um wrestling is definitely tough. Boxing is also super tough. >> Yeah. >> But yeah, wrestling especially Greco guys is a different breed. >> Yeah. I mean Randy Couttor and Matt Hughes I remember growing up with watching those guys. Matt, I think one of my favorite fights of all time is Matt Hughes against Frank Trig. Do you remember that? >> I love that fight. >> That was [ __ ] crazy, right? >> So Matt Hughes is probably like my all-time favorite fighter next to literally Frankie Edgar. >> Yeah. >> And >> you know, >> I saw Frankie win in Abu Dhabi. Man, what a legend. >> I remember you saying that and I'm like, man, what a good fight to go to. You're catching BJ still kind of in his prime against Frankie who is like >> fighting at his natural weight class which I think is so overlooked by people when they talk about >> that's the thing cuz he's smaller the way that he's who he ended up fighting at. Right. >> Well, I mean when he was fighting guys there was no USADA. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? Like you watch the Gray Maynard Frankie Edgar fights. Those are some of you you talk about Matt Frank trick. Those are right up there in my opinion. >> Yeah. 100%. >> I love Frankie. I think that >> well the opposite was I I saw unfortunately Anderson Silva against Dame Meer which was a a [ __ ] show unfortunately. I was most excited about watching that one. I think it was it's just Anderson was so good at defending takedowns that like you needed to wrestle and generally jiu-jitsu guys didn't have like super good wrestling but Damen Ma started to figure out later in his career he was able to get guy guys down and submit him but I think it was super early in his career to take that fight and I mean >> Anderson Silva in his prime was the most >> like mustwatch TV I think there was is like >> 100% >> Vtor Belffort knockout Yeah. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. >> Yeah. I mean, Anderson was like, everyone talks about like you look at guys now like, oh, everyone Alex Pereira, he's got his walk out, man. When uh you know, DMX is ain't no sunshine. >> Oh, man. It was another level. It was on another level. Yeah. So, when I got tickets when that in cuz at the time I think Abu Dhabi, the government owned 10% of the UFC and I remember thinking this is going to be huge. But it was it was outdoors and I always loved watching fights in Caesar's Palace that were outdoors. But the only thing is it was so sweaty that no one could grapple, right? And I thought actually that was going to work for Anderson in that fight and I was like three rows behind Joe Rogan and I remember thinking this is amazing and you you know I was just and I already love the UFC but I was hooked. >> What an amazing event. And the thing is, you don't even It's so hard to describe the atmosphere of a big fight to someone. Yeah. >> Who's never been to a big fight, but >> you can feel the energy. >> Yeah. >> You can like It's some It's something that's kind of just indescribable. Honestly, >> it's on a different level. Well, Dana White always talks about this and I've been to a lot of big boxing matches, but the problem is the big boxing fights, apart from the top two fights, normally the undercard's not that great, right? Whereas if you go to a stat UFC card, you you've got five hours of fights that are stacked, you know, >> and there's like that big like transfers between like boxing and MMA because it's just like people always like give Dana White a bunch of crap, but man, Dana employs so many people. >> Yeah. >> He has the PI set up literally all over the world and then on top of that, if you're fighting on the undercard, you're not making 500 or $2,000. You're getting paid >> 12 and 12 minimum. So, I mean, like there's definitely a higher ceiling if you're a highlevel professional boxer, but I think for the majority of it, the UFC, obviously, they could pay more, but I think they pay better than what people think. >> Yeah, 100%. Well, let me tell you, I've met Dana White twice, and I took my family was I only had two kids at the time. They were very young and we were there to watch um Widman against Machida. >> Another great fight. >> Another great fight. And we went to a Chinese restaurant in the Bellagio, but they wouldn't let me in because I wasn't dressed, you know, smart. I was in shorts. And Dana White was coming with his family and Robbie Lawler was with him. And I said, "Dana, is there any way you could get me in?" And I've flown all the way from Singapore. And um he said, "Let me let me hook you up." And then we we got in and then he took pictures with us and he was so gracious with his time. Do you know what I mean? That's the thing no one really ever talks about. That guy has never not signed an autograph. >> I mean Dana is notorious for giving people like locker room checks that you don't even hear about. >> So I mean >> the one thing I like that Dana says is that it's a the business is like you you eat what you kill. >> Yeah. >> And I think that's that's true. you go out there and have a good fight. I mean, it's funny you say that because I was in Vegas during that fight, too. >> So, I had their first ever World Championships and I took six kids from Malaysia to Vegas as the head coach. >> Really? >> And we did it. It was back then they had the international fight week where they had like the huge UFC booth and it was crazy because at that time there were a bunch of different brands because not one company owned the clothing rights for the UFC. Yeah. So you had like Head Rush, like Hayabusa, everyone had these booths set up. Um, you know, all the different websites like MMA warehouse, bjpin.com, like you just could walk around and meet everyone. And in the middle they had the EMOF cage. So it was like the amateur world championships, but it was a bit crazy because they did the amateur championships and there was no shin guards, no whatever. So you had guys going to war. Yeah. Yeah. And after the first round, they're like, "Oh, you got to fight again tomorrow." And they're like, "Man, I'm banged up. I'm banged up, man." >> It's like old school UFC, right? >> Oh, man. It was It was really cool that like the UFC was able to partner with all those amateur athletes. And like for example, um Jose Mariscol who's in the UFC now, um he won he won that first >> Oh, really? >> world championship. >> Wow. >> Jose Shorty Torres also won that world championship. who's like a pretty well-known fighter in Brave. And um yeah, it was definitely something. And I remember because we were like after the fights, we were like, "Oh, let's go watch the UFC." And they're like, "Where do you want to watch it?" I was like, "Ah, we don't want to go watch it there. Let's just go to a bar." Yeah. >> So, we ended up going to um >> Hooters. >> Well, with the kids. >> Uh yeah, but I mean, you take, you know, five or six Malaysian kids there, they're like, "Ah, coach, this is awesome." Yeah, of course. >> We love Hooters. >> Well, actually, I took Kaden, my son. I think he was 11. How old were you at the time? >> 11. >> Yeah, 11. So, Tara, he'd finished his PSLE, which in Singapore is like, you know, a big thing. And my wife said, "Why don't you take Kane away for the weekend?" And I said, "Oh, yeah, cool." And um she goes, "Have you booked tickets?" I said, "Yeah, where you going to go? Bali, Phuket." I said, "We're going to Vegas, baby, for the Conor McGregor Khabib fight." A huge one. >> It was crazy. The timing worked out perfectly. And what was crazy was um I told him beforehand, listen, I think a ruck's going to kick off in the crowd. I'm halfIrish. I love the Irish where they like a drink and Connor's probably going to lose and it's going to kick off. And I I said we need to plan our exit out of the T-Mobile Arena and fast because within minutes things were being thrown and it was it got it got crazy. We you know he was tiny so we had to get out of there. Um, and on the way back, we're walking through a casino and there all these naked ladies dancing. And then I said, "Yeah, don't don't look. Close your eyes." And he was doing this. He was like, >> and I said, "Don't tell your mom." >> Like any kid would, you know? >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Can we give a shout out to Skipper Kelp? Because cuz we both know him and he's he's such an amazing guy. >> Yeah. Skip's the man. Um, I sent one of my younger pro fighters, Caros, there to uh to train and he was gracious. >> Oh, did you? Yeah. Carlos went out there to Vegas. Wow. >> And uh Skip was able to set that up, give him some good pointers. And like the one good thing is is like if you know Skip Skipper Kelp from like a boxing background, he had a famous left hook. Yeah. >> And Kos's best punch is a left hook. So I thought, you know, that's a that's a sweet marriage right there. Might as well, you know, get some get some tips from a guy who really knows what he's doing. >> Yeah. >> So I think uh it was a good experience. you know, ve Vegas is like anywhere. It's like it's not like anything else in the world to be honest. >> It's different. >> Yeah. And it's got so many nice parts. Like you can go out to Summerland and it's like big houses and stuff and then you get on the strip like during co I moved out to Vegas and my boy Sasha who's he's from Hong Kong but he's of Russian and um Scottish descent. >> Okay. He was telling me like, "Oh man, we need a striking coach out here, you know, come through." So, I trained him in Hong Kong when I was living in Hong Kong. And I was like, "Yeah, sure. No problem." And I've I've trained Sasha for almost like two years and then, you know, I've cornered him in some big fights and he was solely ready to get into the UFC. And at the time it was crazy because during CO you had so many people in Vegas because if a fighter failed a COVID test there was an opportunity to jump in and the UFC was just like okay two three fight contract no problem. >> Respect to Dana for setting up you know. >> Yeah the Apex was great. >> Crazy. >> I mean you could hear Sean Strickland say every single word in the Apex. >> Yeah I bet >> when he was chatting [ __ ] >> Every single word in the apex. How long did you work with him for? >> Um, you know, like a year, a year and a half. Um, >> solid. >> But I, you know, Sasha was like living on the strip. So, we went there and, you know, everyone was getting their checks and Vegas was just pumping. So, I, you know, I was living in Singapore with my wife at the time and it's just like here you couldn't move anywhere really. And then I went to Vegas and I'm like, >> who where's the lockdown? >> Yeah, it's crazy, right? >> You know, everything there is legal. The entire street is like pumping. I'm like, everyone's like, "Oh, you got to wear a mask." And people were just like, >> you know, "Screw the mask." You know, like, >> and you had like the mayor who was like defying the governor. She's like, "I'm not shutting down my casinos." >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, it was crazy, man. But, >> you know, it was definitely from u from a coaching standpoint such a good experience to work with extremely high level athletes. >> Yeah. Because you know guys like I mean Sean is the one everyone always brings up like oh how is Sean Strickland but I worked with a lot of really good fighters. Um I went to Fight Island. So I did go to Abu Dhabi myself which was >> you did that would have been cool right? >> So >> cuz they did it on another level. >> So I went from Syndicate where I ended up working. We had Roxan Mafairy and Joanne Cerwood fighting on the card. >> Okay. So that was the the second edition of the Fight Island and the second edition is when they opened up the Ethiata there. So it was the first time they did that. >> Yeah. >> But when people went to Fight Island the first time, it was super cool because Abu Dhabi was closed down. >> Yeah. >> So the fighters could go anywhere. They could do everything. When I went to Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi had already opened up with restrictions. So, we were confined to the W Hotel and I was there for like 20 days because >> that's a long time. >> Yeah, we were there for and like luckily we brought a you know a PlayStation because there was literally nothing to do. >> That's in Yaz Island, right? >> Yeah. >> Crazy. So, go go back to your story. So, how did you evolve from college through to coaching? What was in between >> and how did Asia beckon? So basically what ended up happening was my parents divorced when I was very young. Okay. So my mother moved up to Nashville and my dad lived in Orlando. And when I go up to Nashville, >> can you sing by the way? >> No. >> Neither can I. >> My wife says I have the worst voice of anyone. She says she had put on a song and everyone's like, "Oh, Matt, I bet you can sing Bon Joy." She's like, "Have you ever heard him sing? Have you ever heard him sing?" He's got the worst voice ever. >> You and I have got a talent. We can clear a room, no problem. >> But that's the thing, right? Like when I'm singing, I'm I'm not all the way there, you know? I'm a couple drink I'm a couple drinks in. I'm not I'm not sing I'm singing just because I'm I'm deep there. But uh you know I would go up see my mom and they had the MACP program which was the modern modern army combatives program cuz my stepdad was a special forces guy. >> Oh wow. >> So the MACP was ran by a lot of highlevel Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts. >> Wow. >> So he's like okay I'm going to take you I'mma leave you at the gym and this train. >> You know I was 11 12 you know. >> The right age though. >> Yeah. I mean, I had I'd been I had wrestled. I was doing like wrestling already, but it was just like you go there and all the guys are geared up. They're like I mean geared up like in terms of you know the special forces guys are on serious juice. Yeah. >> Like they have to the injuries all this kind of stuff. They're they're they're a different breed, right? >> And you're just sitting there training and you're training with grown men and then as you get older you continuously start to train with like better guys. And you had a lot of UFC guys coming in. Sean Sherk would go into the the program a lot. >> He was a beast. He had traps out to his ears. >> I mean, Sean Sherk, five feet tall, but like 5t tall with 0% body fat >> and 5t wide. >> Yeah. Crazy guy. And um you know, you're just getting into it and you're like, man, I really I really like MMA. >> Yeah. So, I remember I had signed up to do an amateur fight and then my dad chimed in. He's like, "Hell no, you ain't fighting in a bar in in Clarksville, Tennessee. Get back to Florida. You got football season coming up." >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, when you spell it out like that, it would have been scary as hell as a parent, right? >> Ah, yeah. I mean, MMA wasn't mainstream at that time. You know, I remember like you could go to an event and there was a brand called Kickkin that sold gel gloves. Like the MMA gloves were gel and people used to put them in the like the cooler to to cool them down. Well, so when you punch it sounded like a window cracking, >> you guys used to get cracked with these kick skin gloves. >> I've never heard of that. It's crazy. >> Crazy. And you know, a lot of these places they did fights like in big like bar slash like country clubs. Yeah. >> Like that's where they were done. And in Florida you had like the hard rock doing fights. I mean that's where Anderson Silva debuted in the UFC when he knocked out Chris Leven. It was in Florida. >> I remember that. I remember that live. >> I don't think I've ever seen a fight where a guy landed 100% of his strikes. Well, listen, Chris Leven does have a big head, but people that don't know Chris Leven, he could take a punch. So, when you saw him getting cracked and getting hurt, no one realized just how special Anderson Silva was, unless you were a fan of his already, which I was. But, you know, I think, and I people will go against the grain on me on this all the time, talk about how much better the UFC is now. I think the guys were much tougher back in the day. >> Yeah. Yeah. I love that the the Ultimate Fighter where Chris Lee, he was just a mad man. He was just a mad man. >> So good. The old Ultimate Fighters with like Nate Diaz. They were so good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then what happened? So after that after after Nashville. >> So I go up I go to college. I go to wrestle. >> Where did you go to college? >> So I went to Waldorf before I transferred into Iowa. And then I transferred out of Iowa to go to Kentucky Christian. Well, firstly, tell everyone what Iowa is as a wrestling state because it's on another level, right? >> Yeah. So, it was crazy, right? I remember going there on my visit during the summer and >> is Pat Militage out of Iowa. His camp milit camp is there and I went with my father and we went on a visit and I remember getting off the plane and it was summer and I was freezing. I was in Florida >> and I was just like, "Man, it's cold." You know, it's, you know, we're get we're getting into August, you know, right before my senior year. I'm like, man, it's cold. It's like one of these like, you sure you want to come up to Iowa? But I mean, it's it's one of the things where like it's the same I say as like hockey is in Minnesota. It's it's one of the bigger sports and, you know, you're consistently surrounded by community colleges that are really good. You got NIA schools that are really good. You got, you know, um, smaller schools like people don't realize, you talk about Iowa, Iowa State, Co College was also a really good school, you know, um, Grand View, a very good wrestling school. >> And that whole that whole farm boy strength, I would imagine it's very real cuz my dad was a builder and if you've grown up working on a farm, you're going to have a different type of strength, right? So, it was just interesting because, you know, playing in Florida, you're as a Caucasian kid, you're generally the minority on the football field, >> I bet. >> So, when you go up there and you're playing and you're and you're up there, you're just like, man, why are these white kids so fast up here? He's like, man, I didn't see this growing up. So, it was uh it's definitely Yeah, they're they're strong. They're fast. And you got guys like Cooper Dean who came from Iowa who like, you know, he had a great season with the Philadelphia Eagles. >> And I played football and wrestled. So when I transferred to KCU, there was a a coach taking over named Mike Furry. And Mike Furry was a a wide receiver for the Detroit Lions. And he was pretty good receiver. And um I wanted to play football under him. Basically, my college credits weren't transferable because they wanted me to finish the season wrestling. >> So, I was like, "Man, you go, you know what? I'm gonna go fight. I'm gonna go fight." So, I hit up a couple gyms. I had a contact who was like, "Bro, look to Malaysia and Singapore. 1FC is a promotion that's starting from Marshall Combat." >> Wow. >> And there's opportunities out there, so you could go fight. >> I make contact with the gym called Mo in Malaysia, and they're like, "Yeah, we can get you a 1FC contract." Cool. So I told my dad, I was like, "Yeah, man. I'm, you know, I'm going to train. I'm going to coach wrestling. I'm going to coach football at the high school level." And he was like, "Yeah, okay. Okay. Bye." I didn't end up coaching that that fall semester after summer and I left. >> Okay. >> So I landed in Malaysia. I was in Koala Lumpur. >> How How old were you? >> I had just turned 19. >> That just to put this into context because most people don't get that, right? cuz you probably had no connection with Asia at that point ever. >> No. Yeah. >> It's a huge thing, right? You you're already thinking differently. You're an outlier. >> You know what the thing was? Is that I was so used to moving around cuz you have to >> I went to Europe a lot growing up for wrestling as well. Like a couple times I went to overseas to wrestle and I went, you know, south to wrestle. You go all over the US to wrestle. You go all over the place to play football. you go to all these camps and you're just comfortable like leaving. >> Yeah. >> So, I was just like I had no not that I didn't have ties, but I wanted to do something that was like meaningful. And the first time I saw like mixed martial arts, I was like, man, I want to do that. >> Yeah. >> So, when I came to Malaysia, you know, there were guys here who had like eight or 10 fights at the gym I was at, but the wrestling level was just atrociously low. >> Yeah. >> So, they're like, "Man, you're good at wrestling. can you coach? >> Yeah. >> And I was like, really? >> I was like, man, I came here to like train. >> Yeah. >> So, within like a month, I end up me and my friend Luke end up Luke Russo, who's basically giving me all my Brazilian jiu-jitsu belts. We basically take over coaching at the gym. >> Wow. >> So, 1FC when I got there was going to their third event ever, which is crazy, right? >> So, it's an inception, man. >> Yeah. It's their third ever event which was crazy. And Arnod Leon, Peter Davis, and Eric Kelly, they were scheduled to fight on this card. We did the camp for them. We got three wins and Eric Kelly became quite a big star because he's like Filipino. Filipino fight fans are crazy. >> They're crazy. Love it. >> That's the thing, right? Like I didn't realize how crazy it was until I got here. But like you beat a Filipino guy and then on the the thing everyone is calling you like dirty names and tagalo and stuff. It's crazy man. And um for the fifth 1FC event they went to Manila for the first time. M >> so 1FC only went to uh Aronatada Coliseum once and basically they were like okay Eric Kelly we you need to fight and then after this fight you'll get the inaugural inaugural belt for 1FC cuz they hadn't done a championship yet. >> Wow. >> So we pulled Jyn's Pulver. >> Oh no. >> So we fight Jyn Pulver. We >> He's a legend by the way in MMA, right? >> I mean he's a Hall of Famer now. UFC Hall of Famer. BJ Pin in his prime. Yeah. >> And we knock out Jyn's Pulver in Manila. But you know, if you don't know the history behind the stadium, Aronatada Coliseum. It's where Muhammad Ali fought. >> Yeah. >> And that stadium just goes straight up. >> Really? >> It's so loud. It goes straight up. And it was also really cool because, >> you know, >> that was a thrill in Manila, was it? >> Wow. >> You know, I'm this 19-year-old kid. I'm taking this guy to fight Jens Pulver. And then on that same card, Andre Arloski is fighting Tim Sylvia. >> Jesus. Who won that fight? >> So Arloski, >> I didn't know that, >> man. I didn't even want to go over this. But so 1FC used to allow soccer kicks. >> Oh, but >> but basically what the rule was when they first started, you had to the ref had to say open until you could kick the guy. So you couldn't knock a guy down and kick him. You had to wait for the ref to say open. >> Yeah. And Euji Shamata, God bless his soul, is so slow. >> Yeah. Oh god. >> Arloski hit Tim Sylvia, dropped him and nuked him with the soccer kick. >> I was going to say there was no way it was Tim Sylvia. He didn't know what a soccer kick probably was. >> But it was amazing. It was a great knockout. They called it qualification. >> Really? >> Because he didn't wait for the open call. >> Arloski was Do you see that that street rule that he was in? It's ridiculous. >> But my mom loves Andre Arloski. So she was like, "Can you get an autograph?" >> Oh man, he those two I mean actually one of my favorite fights was when Randy Coutour fought Sylvia and he opened it was I think it was an inside leg kick and he cracked him with a big right. Do you remember when Sylvia went down I thought wow >> you just because Randy was coming back. >> Yeah. >> Like Damon was like Randy we need you back you know and I remember I watched that fight and when he cracked him it was loud. It was very loud when he hit the ground >> and it was perfectly timed, right? He he'd set that up beautifully >> and it was Yeah, >> that was crazy. So after that, then what happened? >> So the gym I was at was called Mo ended up expanding a second branch and I jump shipped to the other branch which didn't have the pro fighters at it. headtohead. The the main guys and the guy who opened this branch were kind of like the head guys didn't want the the fighters training with me. They wanted them to stay there just because it made the gym look better. But for me, you know, I'm 19 years old. I care about results. I don't really care about anything else. >> I want to win. >> Yeah. >> You can train wherever you want. We could train outside. If you're going to be consistent and we can win, that's all I care about. >> Love it. >> That's like that was my mindset, especially when I was young. Like I would go to war with people over over stupid stuff all the time, but I wanted to win. >> I love it. >> And I ended up getting a bunch of amateurs and two of the amateurs, Keanu and Giani, their brothers. Giani is probably my best friend. And you know, Giani got his opportunity to fight in 1FC FC in Singapore and they gave him a shot on like two or three weeks notice. He won by soccer kick knockout. >> Jesus. So then after that, it was just like, okay, we're on the board, right? You know, our the gym's kicking. We're doing good. We're on the board already. So I didn't even need that other gym. Then Jason Low, who is the CEO of Toon Talk, which if you know what Toon Talk is, it's a prepaid telek agency. So it's like Singtel but the prepaid version. >> They were like, "We want to do Malaysian invasion." So, it was an amateur mixed martial arts competition >> and it was huge. It was It was on AXN. It was crazy. It was It did five seasons. I was involved in four seasons of it. But you had these kids from all over Malaysia doing all different styles of combat. You had Celot guys, you had BJJ guys. It was crazy because the amount of viewership and the amount of participants was like in the hundreds per weight class. >> So if you ever look up Mima, it's it was it was really it was really a huge boost for MMA in Malaysia. So like all the gyms now that are in Malaysia, all the coaches at those gyms are coming off of like their coaches are MIMA fighters. So, it's just like without this platform, you're not going to have the boom that happened in Malaysia. >> So, I ended up coaching there, but I also ended up working for MIMA. I ended up doing like the the voiceover work for the TV show. Oh, wow. >> I ended up doing the commentary and it was tough because I had a lot of guys fighting. >> So, I had guys fighting and winning at Mima, but I'm sitting there trying to commentate their fights and not be biased. That's a tough thing to do. >> Really? >> That's a super tough thing to do. >> Yeah. >> But um we um I end up, you know, working for Jason and Jason's like, "Matt, I want you to fight in season 2 main event." And I was like, "All right, I'll fight." They give me Will Chop who's uh coming off a UFC fight with Max Holloway. I fight him. I lose by submission, but I did well with my wrestling. It was my first pro fight. >> Respect. I >> think it was like his 36th pro fight or something like that. >> Yeah, >> it was good. Good fun. You know, you got I got to fight in a stadium for my first pro fight. >> Amazing. >> Which is like >> crazy. >> Yeah, it was cool. >> And then so I always tell the story because it's funny because like Kaiikar of France, if you know who that is, >> of course. >> He co-main invented under me twice. >> Really? So he fought Mark Strial on on my first fight, lost to Mark Strigle, who also ended up fighting in the UFC. And then >> by the way, guys, Kaiser and New Zealand fight and he just fought for the recently for the UFC strap, right? >> Yeah. He was a super explosive striker for sure. >> Yeah. >> And then Jason was like, "All right, we have our 10th year anniversary of Toontown. We want to do something cool. Let's do a fight on a cruise ship." No way. >> Yeah. So, I was like, "All right, so who's fighting?" He's like, "You're 100% headlining. You have to headline." And I'm just like, "Oh, man. I don't want to headline. I want to enjoy it." You know? So, he's like, "No, okay, we'll think about it." So, you know, I get like the call 3 weeks out and he's like, "Come on, just do it." I'm like, "All right, I'll go for it. Whatever." >> Jesus. >> So, what they do is we take the Starship Libra from Paneang. We sell to Phuket. We fight in Phuket. We sell to Krabby and then sell back. >> But >> was the boat stationary when you guys were fighting? >> Yeah. >> Cuz in the old days, I'd always read about when they tried to ban boxing, they they would have them on a boat in open waters. >> You know, there's there's a there's a heritage there. That's what a crazy experience that would be. >> So getting the weight cut was like I missed weight so badly for that fight. I missed weight so badly. So I didn't miss weight by how much they said I missed weight by it was still enough. But I was like the guy I was fighting I used to train. So I was like he got a big head because I had lost my last fight. And I was just kind of like man this guy I could beat him with no arms you know. So I was like yeah I'll take the fight. You could take 100% of my purse because I know in my contract >> I have a show I have a finish bonus. >> Okay. >> And I have a win bonus. Yeah. So I'mma get both of them. I'mma get both of those bonuses. >> I love it. I love it. >> So, you know, Kai co may have been in under me on that. So >> crazy. >> My friends are all like, "Hey, what are you going to do?" I'm like, "All right, I'm going wear American spats." Like I wore long sleeve spats. And I walked out to Shawn Michael sexy boy. >> No way. >> So classic. >> All you hear is I think I'm cute. And all you see are these old Chinese people going nuts cuz it's like it's a gambling cruise. like people aren't there to do anything but gamble. But we had our whole crew from Phuket because I was super close with uh our organization was really close with >> Will Elliot because >> it was a reality TV show. So at the end of the season, the winners, the semi-finalists would go to Tiger Muay Thai and train. Yeah. >> So then we shoot a bunch of content there. >> So we had so many fighters, you know, Alex Vulcganowski was there. There were so many people watching this event and it was really cool. >> It was definitely like a once in a-lifetime thing. So, I'm I'm glad I actually ended up taking the fight and I won in the first minute. I won by heel hook. >> Oh, Jesus. >> It was pretty funny. It was pretty funny. But it was funny because like the announcers were so drunk by the time I looked over at the announcers table cuz Peter Davis was a guy I used to train and he was the announcer. >> Yeah. >> And it was like 10 glasses of beer stacked. >> Jesus. He was tacked up. >> Oh, yeah. And then James Goer, who was the other announcer, British guy, he was uh equally 10 glasses in. And I'm just like, what are you guys saying right now? They're trying to announce me. Oh, coming out of the red corner. I'm like, oh my god. >> And how did you So, after Malaysia, did you go to Hong Kong? Was that next? >> So, I was in uh West Malaysia and then I worked for a guy named Shawn in East Malaysia and he had a great gym and great fighters and I went there. So between Mima season 1 and two, I was in East Malaysia and between me Mima season 3 and four, I was in East Malaysia in Sarowak in Cooching. >> Wow. >> Then I went to Hong Kong. Um, >> how did Hong Kong come about? >> So I had a ex-girlfriend who uh was running a gym and she needed an MMA coach. >> There's always a girl involved, isn't it? And she was just like, well, she was just like, she had fought MMA as well. So, she was like, listen, I don't want to make it awkward, but like, you're the best guy for this job. D. And I was like, all right. So, people don't realize from 19 to 24, I'm making Malaysian ring. I mean, with the exception of the fights, Jason Low cut me like some big money for those fights. I I don't even I can't I don't even really want to say how much. Yeah. >> But it was a USD and it was a lot. >> Okay. >> Shout out to Jason. >> Respect. >> And so I get to Hong Kong and I'm sitting there and you know I'm working. I'm grinding. I'm making money and I'm just like okay. I get my first check and it's like $8,000. And I'm just like what have I been doing? >> Yeah. >> What have I been doing? >> I've been stuck getting paid Malaysian ring. I'm >> like USD man. We ain't ever going back to Malaysia. We made it, you know. Bring out the red panties, you know. >> Conor McGregor, baby. >> Yeah. I was like, we made it, you know. Um, no. But, you know, Hong Kong was good. I was still young at the time. So, they they say it's not about how much money you make, it's about how much you keep. Yeah. >> And I kept none of it. I >> You had a good time. >> Oh, man. I If you If you've ever been to Hong Kong, >> if you're below if you're if you're not married and you're below 30, go to Hong Kong. Yeah. What a place. Yeah. >> And it's just I had a great time. I trained a lot of guys. I met my boy Sasha who I ended up linking up with in Vegas. And so basically what ended up happening was the gym I was at got liquidated to a brand called Goi. So they used to have California Fitness here in Singapore. Right. That's right. >> And then it shut down. >> That's right. >> So they also had it in Hong Kong. So those buildings were unoccupied. So this company came in, this Goji, and they were like, "Oh, we want to take over these as fitness centers." So they went to our guy who was the manager of like not the manager but like the CEO of our gym. And they were like, "We want to use your staff and the people that are running your gym to like run this chain." And they were just like, "Yeah, we everyone wants to do it because at the end of the day, you IPO, you're going to cash out." >> But you know, I'm I'm still young. I'm 24, right? Excuse my language, but I'm not doing that. >> Yeah. >> I ain't sitting there. I'm not going to go there and and train aunties and uncles. >> Yeah, >> man. I had a fight team. I'm training guys to fight. >> 100%. >> That's what I do. >> Yeah. >> I do not train. Like >> I love it. >> It it it flips to a point, but like at the end of the day, like even the guys I was training that weren't professional fighters, they were fighting something. >> Yeah. >> They were doing a white collar. We ran a rugby fight night. So rugby is huge in Hong Kong. >> Huge. Yeah. And basically what we did was we went to all the teams and we're like, "Okay, send two guys who would want to box." So we had 20 guys. We had girls too. And we went to the Kerry Hotel and we did a fight night. Wow. >> Just rugby people. >> So when you go to a white collar fight night, it doesn't matter where it is here in Singapore and England and Hong Kong, >> the fights are they're good, but they're not. >> Yeah. >> The guys aren't athletic. >> The standards are much lower level. >> But it's supposed to be that way. Rugby Fight Night was a different story. Like >> they're athletes. >> Well, it was just the first time I was like, man, we had like knockouts, like actual knockouts, and I was like, this is this is something that is awesome. >> Because in regular white collar boxing, you will rarely rarely see a knockout. >> Yeah. >> I mean, these guys were getting knocked out with like 16 gloves and head, but if you've ever seen like a lot of the rugby guys in Hong Kong that are coming from like South Africa and stuff, >> they're beasts. They play high level rugby and now they're just sitting there. They're coaching and they're big. You're talking like 6'5 like line like like front linemen and stuff. Yeah. They're huge. >> Yeah. >> So, we had a couple knockouts and ended up being really fun. And >> basically what happened was when my gym got consolidated, I didn't want to be a part of that. I did not want to go commercial. I I told everyone I was like, "You guys go do that. Keep this separate." It worked for a while and then it ended up getting consolidated, >> which was great for me because I ended up knowing I was going to leave and I saved a lot of money before I left. >> Okay. Then I moved to Phuket. I was in Phuket for like a year. And while I was in Phuket, I was training under George Hickman and I was going to fight my boy John Nut who owns like Fight Circus, which is quite a crazy thing. He was used to throw a full metal dojo. So I was going to fight Tommy Hayden who was on the ultimate fighter and I was training hard for this fight and 10 days before the fight he just said he got hurt pulled out. So I was like man I need to get out of Puket. I've been here training hard. I need to leave >> go to Singapore. Arvin who owned Juggernaut Fight Club at the time was like hey come train here. I was like all right cool. haven't been to Singapore for more than a week, you know, like it wasn't a spot that I was like wanting to live in, you know, just because like a lot of the times like you think Singapore, you think evolve and I just >> So anyways, we uh I go and then the first week, not first week, first maybe month I'm there, I end up meeting my wife. So, I'm I'm chilling in Singapore now because my wife's there and I get an offer to go to Abu Dhabi. I look over the offer. It was good money. And I was just like, man, I don't really want to do that, you know? Not really my thing. So then basically what ends up happening, I'm like 2018, 2019, spent like six months in Singapore just kind of hanging out. You know, when guys needed help, I would help them. But then COVID hits. >> M. >> So now I'm chilling and I'm like, man, now I can't do anything. >> Yeah. You're stuck. >> I'm stuck. Like I can't even leave. I couldn't even leave, man. And I was just like, what am I going to do? >> So my boy hits me up and was like, his fiance at the time had left. He's like, man, just come chill. And I was like, all right, I'll go to Vegas. Ended up going to Vegas. And then after that it was just all downhill cuz now it's just like from a profile of coaching I would say like once a month someone asks me to run a fight camp for them >> at least once a month. It could be a boxer, it could be MMA. At least once a month. >> I get guys who are fighting currently in the UFC. Yo, come out to Philly, come out to here. You know, >> different different story now. Now, you know, you're trying to start a family. You're trying to >> Yeah. >> So, you're just at a different point. But what resonates with me still is that from when I was a young boy, when I started coaching at 19 to where I ended now, the philosophy is still the same. I want to win. I love it. It's it, you know, it's just one of those things where like you could have a close fight and you could lose a close fight, but at the end of the day, if you go into a contract meeting, the guys renewing your contract aren't going to be like, "Oh, it was a close fight." and you lost, it's an L. >> Yeah. >> So, you're coming off an L. >> Simple as that. >> So, a win is just super important. And >> you know, I figured that out the like hard way because I had friends who ended up losing >> that would get cut and they would be in the practice room and you know, after outside the UFC were you making money fighting unless you're doing bare knuckle, which is >> Yeah, >> that's crazy. Bare knuckle is wild. >> Yeah. >> I don't think I would ever do bare knuckle. >> That's shortlived, man. But one of one of the things I wanted to share with you that I really admired about you. So my son fought one of your guys and he lost and that's okay. And you were gracious enough to come and have a chat with him afterwards. And the thing that really struck me was you understand this when I think it's lost that you're helping young men and women go on to do bigger things because the reality is not all of these guys are going to become professional fighters. And in in those few words that you said to him after the fight, it just it just picked him up a little bit, right? But you know, thank you for that because those things make a huge difference. You know what the thing is? Is that yes, you want to win. Yes, you want to lose. But you also got to know who you're dealing with. >> Yeah. >> The ins and outs of winning and losing should not be a resignation of when you're dealing with kids under 18 years old. >> Exactly. as a as a person who is like responsible for molding younger people. >> Yeah. >> You have to make sure that there's something learned in either a win or a loss. >> Yeah. >> And I think it's super important that like you can be a good X's and O's guy as a coach, but can you lead young men? >> Yeah. >> And that's the thing and my dad was really good at that because >> you know to this day the guys I grew up playing football with like, man, we loved your dad as a coach. You know, >> it's huge. >> And it's just like my dad taught me a lot about raising young men correctly. And my wrestling coaches, you know, they were very instrumental in making sure that you learn lessons while you're doing this. It's not just about getting your hand raised. >> Yeah. >> Cuz you're going to lose just like you're going to lose in life. >> Yeah. And when you lose in life, you got to be able to make sure that you handle it gracefully, you handle it properly, and you make the necessary steps to go forward. >> Huge. >> If I'm if I'm a coach and one of my guys loses, >> I don't want him to lose and blame anyone else but, you know, himself. >> Yeah. >> I want him to be held accountable. But at the same time, >> you have to congratulate effort. And when it's these young men who are fighting and stuff, >> it's huge. It's extremely important to have a positive role model. >> Yeah. >> Because not all these kids I mean you're a great dad but not all these kids have that. >> A lot of them don't. That's what I've seen. >> And especially in a sport like boxing. >> Yeah. >> In the US where this kind of sport is is a lowincome sport. Gets kids off the street. Yeah. >> It's what it does. Yeah. In Singapore, it's definitely a different story, but you know, there are still lowincome kids who are still boxing. And it's super important to know that as a community, coaches see the the potential and they also see the effort that you put in. >> Yeah. >> Doesn't matter if you win or lost. >> Yeah. >> You you know, you did something a lot of people aren't doing. >> Yeah. Takes a lot of courage. Step between the ropes. And what one of the things I've said to Kaden like with his um the guys he's competing with, I said win, lose or draw, you got to respect those guys. And I said in in theory, some of those guys could be your best friends. You don't see it cuz you're competing now, but these guys have the same dream. They're getting up in the morning and going for a run. And you and I know that boxing in particular, it requires a very special kind of mindset. You got to be a little bit loco, right? You know, it's it's it's a scary sport. Takes a lot of courage. Kaden's too good-looking to box. Let's let's just be honest. He should be modeling somewhere. You don't need to be boxing. But like that's but that's the thing, right? Like and you know Singapore, you can't really >> It's hard, man. >> It's hard because there's not a lot of resources for combat sports. >> Yeah. >> It's It's not a lot of resources because a lot of people don't want to travel to gain knowledge, >> don't want to spend money bringing in the the knowledge to Singapore. Yeah, >> there's just a lot of things that make it difficult. You know, two years of the kid's prime, he's doing NS. >> Yeah, national service. >> That's the thing. And actually, he's he's lost a lot of his conditioning because the food, the sleep, you know, it's different. >> And, you know, I think it it's just one of those things, you know, you look at Korean zombie. Yeah. >> He got taken out in the prime of his MMA career. Crazy >> because he had to do national service. >> I know. >> So, >> I love that guy and what he's gone on to do, man. Brilliant. So, how did So, how did Fox Gloves come about? >> Okay. So, I'm smashing it in Vegas right now. So, when I'm at Syndicate, the guys I'm working with, we're winning fights and we're getting performance bonuses. >> So, everyone asks like, "Oh, how can you tell if a coach is good?" I always tell, look at the checkbook. >> Yeah. >> See how many 50k bonuses their fighters have picked up and then talk, you know? So, everyone here, you can be like, "Oh, I won this. I won this. I did this. I did that." I was like, "Bro, I've gotten seven 50k bonuses." Yeah. >> Between fighters. Seven. >> Yeah. >> So, I was just like, "All right, >> tells the story." >> Well, we're just smashing it. So, basically what ends up happening, we go to fight island. Joanne Calderwood, who I'm doing the camp for. >> Yeah. >> She fights Jessica eye. >> Whoops. Her and this is on the Porier McGregor 2 fight. >> I remember. >> So, we're in the we're in the um >> she's got she's got a lovely demeanor to John Cwell, right? >> So, we got the Yeah, we got the feature fight. So, we're going into media and Michael Chandler knocks out Dan Hooker in like the first round and like the first minute. >> Yeah, it's crazy. >> So, they're coming back into to to um like doctors and stuff that you have to see after the fight. So, we get stopped and as we get stopped, you just hear like Conor McGregor's music start to play. >> Yeah. >> So, we get to see the walk out. >> You saw it. >> But then they they escort us back to the hotel. We're like, why can't we just sit here and watch the fight? Yeah, >> but because of co protocols and stuff, we ended up going back to watch and see like Porier knock him out on the TV. >> That was a mean left when he he hit him with that mean left. It was beautiful. >> I like Connor. I think I think people overlooked that his run at 145 was just amazing. >> Yeah. >> So, anyways, we get back to Vegas. John Wood, who's the head coach at Syndicate, you know, I never really had a problem with John, but his mother was a piece of work. She ran the gym. She's just a piece of work. And like all the guys I've worked with have said the same thing. She didn't like that all the guys that were winning big fights, getting big fights were working with me instead of him. >> We have a conversation. I don't I don't like how this conversation is going. I bow out. So my the guys are like, "Oh, dude, just stay here. We'll just go to the PI." And I'm like, "This is great." Because I had good stuff going on with a lot of the guys. >> Yeah. My wife wants to come over. But you know, Singaporean families are like Chinese families also a lot like Italian families. Like you stay at home for a while. You got to look after your parents. Yeah. >> You got to do a lot of things, you know. >> Um my wife calls it ESAG, like internal service and gratitude. >> I love that. >> So she she uh she's like, "My parents don't really want me to go." So, you know, she's lucky enough to have like the ability to look for certain properties and open certain things. She's like, "Let's open a gym here." And I was just like, "Okay, well, what do you want to do?" And she >> How long were you dating at the time? >> Couple of years, >> four years going, >> but why I mentioned that because I think your significant other is such an important part of the equation. You marry the wrong person, forget about it. Well, it was really just easy because it was funny because I'll go to a quick story before I continue. I saw my my my wife went to Penn State. So, I'm an Iowa guy. Okay. >> So, screw Penn State. >> Screw Penn State. So, but anyway, she's walking around the gym and she she got she has a like RBF like a mother. Like she got she got the most unapproachable face ever. So, I'm like I asked my friend. I was like, "Who's that?" He's like, "Oh, it's this girl." You know, she gave me the name. I was like, "All right." So, I look on his I go on Facebook and I get a suggested friend. And I'm like, "Oh, there she is." I'm like, "Ah, let me slide in the DMs." Because like I didn't want to talk to her. I didn't know if she even spoke English, to be honest. She's so unapproachable. >> So, so basically, we end up talking. And then, you know, at the time, it was funny because I'm a habitual sleeper. I can fall asleep anywhere. It's my superpower. >> Nice. >> And uh she was like, "Oh, let's go out one night to see a DJ somewhere." And I was like, "All right." It was a long day of training, guys, whatever. And you know, I get ready and I fall asleep on the couch. And then I wake up, it's like 2:00 a.m. And I'm just blocked everywhere. I can't contact her anywhere. >> [ __ ] >> But then I remember she gave me she gave me like her email address. Yeah. >> So, I sent her an email. And then it was funny because like six months after that she's like, "You literally can sleep anywhere." So it was like, it's funny how we kind of like came together. But my wife has like 35 fights. >> She can throw hands, right? >> Yeah. So she got runner up at the National Collegiate Boxing Association twice. And um yeah, she's she's big southpaw, you know. I think she understands like the weight cutting and everything. So it was a really easy like transition to go from like okay you want to like just coach to like ownership. >> Yeah. >> Which is kind of where you want because now >> and how old were you at the time? >> 29. >> Yeah. >> Good age. You know the difference. >> Well now you know you don't want to work for no one. >> Yeah. >> You want to work for yourself. >> So that's what it was coming off at Vegas cuz you know in Vegas I have you know you're clocking in 10 15k a month. >> Yeah. doing stuff for people and then you know one guy has a problem with how you're coaching and winning and then you're just like >> you're in trouble >> now you're not making nothing. So it's just kind of like at that point you don't want to work for no one. >> Yeah, >> but I'll work you know I'll help my wife out you know. So she's just like oh what do you want to call the gym? And she's like I wanted to have a feminine name. I was like okay. So, a fox gloves is actually a plant and it's a dangerous poisonous plant that like settlers in Europe tried to make tea out of and they ended up poisoning and killing themselves. And she's like, "This is perfect. >> I love it." >> So, I was like, "There's a h there's a hidden meaning there." >> Oh, yeah. Of course. You know, so she's like, "Um, we'll call it fox gloves, but now like all the merch has a fox on it, so >> I love it." So now it's just like it's kind of taken on its own meaning. But you know, initially it's just kind of like a hobbyist thing. I just help her, you know, run what she wants to do. She pretty much runs it on her own and I help. And then I, you know, when pro guys come in or need help, I do most of the the the ground work for her, you know. >> And then it's just like it was like a hobby thing that just kind of blew up in our face a little bit. Now it's just like >> it was organic. >> You know what the thing is? I think it came down to the fact that it's not it's not a normal place. When you walk in, there's a comfy couch. >> Yeah. >> There's fight fight fight pictures everywhere. >> It's it's a real gym. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's not cookie cutter stuff. And it's just like >> it's old school. If you've been to a gym in the US or or the UK, it's old school. It just gives the it it and you know now with the expansion it's just like it's a good place for kids to get out away from doing stupid stuff. >> Yeah. >> So instead of going to you know boat key and drinking on a Friday night come to the gym, hang out. >> Yeah. >> Watch fights. Play play whatever. Play PlayStation. We got a PS5 setup now with a huge TV on the other side. Yeah. >> Just like >> you know my coach growing up, my wrestling coach was really good at like being like, "Hey, come in like have a conversation. Let's watch wrestling, let's watch whatever, you know, get off the street, you know, don't do stupid stuff. Now, Singapore doesn't have any dangerous streets. >> No, but >> but you could throw away potential. >> Yeah, 100%. And that gets lost, right? And I think there's a lot of PE guys that don't work out. I mean, fortunately, now this generation, people are exercising. They're spending less time in the pub. But you've you've created a real culture because you've got a real hit squad of people, young guys coming through, boys and girls. >> I mean, yeah. You know, like just recently we had a girl 1FC fighter who ended up wanting to do her camp over at the gym and uh she's got 13 fights with 1FC. So like it's a big opportunity for her and for her to like do her MMA camp at a predominantly boxing gym kind of just shows you the level of striking. Like >> so for you, how did boxing how did boxing became because you do many different things but boxing's become the thing. When did you fall in love with boxing? >> So, I grew up with a guy who actually knew how to throw hands, you know, like you know, you get a lot of people who who learned through like doing and stuff, but when I was growing up, my coach and you know, he he was an actual old school guy like turn your wrist, keep your wrist turned when you jab kind of thing. So, you're hitting with knuckles. And when you come over here, you start coaching these things. These are just things that I would learn growing up. >> Yeah. >> You know, and then like I learned some things from like specific coaches like Steve Petroali taught me how to like push off my back foot properly, making sure my feet are underneath me, like how the footwork is all differently. And like shout out to coach Petraali because like he kind of engineered a big portion of like how I teach guys to move and how I teach guys to jab now. And he was great. like uh Steve Petroali, you look him up, he you know he did a lot of camps for a lot of good guys like old school Vtor. He used to train the old Brazilian top team guys. >> Wow. >> And he, >> you know what's crazy is like he makes pizza now, but like you want to talk about a guy who's extremely knowledgeable. >> Yeah. >> And who can show you he could take a day and show you something >> and and within that day you will learn more knowledge in one day than years. Wow. Which is crazy. >> Where does he live in the US? uh Los Angeles. >> Wow. >> But uh yeah, you know, he man, he I did one private with him one time and I was just like, man, you're just dropping knowledge. >> A so >> you know, you know, it's funny because your fighters I I could see your fighters and that they'll be in a just a a non Fox Gloves outfit and I can tell they're your fighters. They've got certain they got certain techniques and without going into too much but like you teach your guys to throw ridiculously good body shots. The left in particular that that's that was my observation. I think like body punching and inside fighting is a lost art, you know. I think >> it is right. >> I mean you got guys trying to fight on the inside in a staggered stance. If you look at any of the old school fighters, they had to punch properly cuz their gloves sucked. >> Yeah. But, you know, you see Floyd Mayweather, who's a great defensive fighter, but you see people trying to emulate how he punched, but Floyd broke his hand four or five times. >> Shot to [ __ ] Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not learning how to punch from a guy who's got broken hands. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? So, >> I think on the inside, you look at how Roberto Durant fought. You look at, you know, um, you know, Pernell Whitaker, how he fought. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> Sweet Pee. >> Oh, man. I think my favorite fighter of all time, Marvin Haggler. >> Yeah. Oh [ __ ] I was gonna wear my Marvin Haggler shirt today for you. >> That would have been amazing. Yeah. I mean Marvin Haggler I mean >> he was beautiful to watch. I just loved I loved everything about him. I I loved how vicious he was, you know. He was like >> if he walked into the I just love to sit down with him like in his prime. He was a bad boy, man. I I always I I remember listening to interviews on uh him doing an interview and he was saying, "Man, my coach said, I got everything going wrong for me. Um, I I hit hard. I'm black and I'm softball. >> I remember. >> No one wants to fight me. >> Yeah, cuz no one did, right? There was no one when he beat Alan Mter in the UK. I I watched that. But I was reading about afterwards and saw interviews how they said the crowd was so racist. They were throwing chairs. Imagine you've just become world champion. And that was the reaction. He should have been celebrated. >> It's insane. But it's crazy because you look at all the like the top four like the four horsemen they call them. >> Yeah. And you there are also guys in that four horsemen like Wilfr Bonedz who was won the world title at 19 years old. >> He was the baby when he won >> Puerto Rican king. I mean he was phenomenal. He also gets kind of lost in the juice a bit. >> Yeah. >> But like everyone talks about like Haggler Hearns and all this and how good Sugar Ray Leonard is. But out of all those fights, the best win out of all of them was Roberto Durant. >> Yeah. >> Because he took Sugar Ray Leonard's O. >> Yeah. Yeah, he did. >> So he took his O at his best weight class. Yeah. So, >> but what was what you know but it was funny because that is that is a good look into because what happened was he went off the rails. Six months later they fought in Montreal and then Lennon just I'm going to I'm going to stick a move. I'm going to run stick a move. >> Oh man. >> I I just if you just put on the old school boxing fights >> Yeah. >> you just see how much more of a >> like a fight it is. Like it's more of a fight. >> It's a tear up, right? That's what we call it back in the UK. >> It's it's good. It's a good fight. And you know, I think people started like Floyd has kind of put the blueprint of like great positioning, great defense, which he was immaculate at, and like trying to sell the fight how it is. And you got guys like Shakur Stevenson who also kind of emulate that same style. >> But you're not excited to watch them. >> It's not It's not a fight. Do you know what I mean? I mean, people give Canelo a lot of crap, but man, Canelo goes forward. >> He can bang. >> He goes forward. >> What What um So, give me your top three favorite boxers and MMA guys of all time. >> Just to enjoy watching. Not necessarily the best, but the ones that you loved. >> Okay. Hector Kamacho for boxing. >> Wow. >> Um I went to school with his son. RIP. Um >> to Hector. Yeah. Crazy guy, but >> great fighter. Um, >> tough >> probably Roberto Duran and then Marvin Haggler. >> Yeah, >> I think like those three, you know. >> Yeah, >> I like Julio Caesar Chavez as well, but I think like >> well for the four for the four horsemen, Duran was a lot smaller naturally >> slightly. >> Yeah. You know, >> it's it's just like you can't hate any of those guys. Like I think like what I kind of take from each guy I would say in respects like I learned stuff from >> Hector's old coach cuz he was always in town. >> So it was like >> okay >> I I also like Miguel Cotto a lot. I think he had a really slick style. Miguel Cotto >> a very underrated fighter who got >> screwed over by um Margarito with the loaded wraps. I mean >> [ __ ] >> the amount of damage that does to your career. >> Yeah. Crazy. >> That's crazy. I mean, >> I don't even know that how that got sanctioned. I mean, how did they not check when they were doing the raps? >> How how did he not get suspended for life is in the fact that they did a rematch is insane, but you know, you could you could mix all of them. I love Tommy Hearns as well, but >> Haggler I think was >> everyone says, you know, Sugar, you know, Sugar Ray Leonard was the best. I I think Haggler was the best. I think Sugar Ray Leonard's probably behind Haggler. I think Roberto Duran probably is in last place, but Roberto Duran has the best win. >> Yeah, >> in my opinion. >> That's great. I love that. And then MMA. >> Oh man, MMA is crazy. That's >> MMA is crazy. >> MMA because you know what? You got to have like different fighters at different eras. >> Yeah, cuz it's not like boxing. The eras are so different in MMA. >> They're so different. >> You know, >> like how do you not like prime Fedor? >> Yeah. >> I mean, Fedor was crazy. >> Yeah. Um, I would I would probably go Matt Hughes. >> Yeah. >> Number one. >> Frankie Edgar number two. And then >> you know what? Another like rest in peace. I liked Anthony Rumble Johnson a lot. >> Yeah. Bless him. >> Yeah, I liked him a lot. Even >> how the hell did he fight at >> welterweight? >> Yeah. 170. Ridiculous. >> Insane. But like really humble guy. If you've ever met him, if you ever got the chance to meet him, >> meant to be a lovely guy, right? >> Oh, lovely guy. You know, >> just a stone cold killer at the same time. >> I mean, you hear Daniel Cormier talk about when he got hit, he like span around. >> He's like on his butt. He's like, "How'd I end up here?" >> Crazy. >> Yeah. But >> so, if you could open Fox Gloves in any location in the world, >> where would it be? Take away family and whatnot. Just where would it be? There's two answers to this. Are you trying to make money or are you trying to build fighters? >> Both. It's a good question. If I'm trying to make money, I'm going to some metropolitan city area. I'm going to New York City. I'm going to Hong Kong. Going to London. Um maybe south of South Italy, you know. >> Why not? Why not? Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I'm Italian by like heritage, so my family's in in southern Italy. But >> And if you want to put together a killer's row, >> Puerto Rico. >> Yeah. So interesting. >> Somewhere in Mexico. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Venezuela probably right now. Um >> yeah, >> Brazil. Like somewhere. >> Interesting. So So you see that you see the potential there. I just think it's just like you got if if you're going to get a kid who wants to come out and fight. >> Yeah. >> Like >> they're coming from a nasty background. They need to make money. >> I mean, look at Puerto Rico. Look at the population. And then look at Singapore's population. >> Yeah. >> Puerto Rico is smaller than Singapore, I believe. >> And and like dang, how many world champions have they had? >> Yeah. >> I mean, I don't think it's a it's a size of the area thing. I think that's that's a nonsense argument. >> No, it's the background they're coming from, right? You can be you doesn't matter where you're from. You can if you if you put your boots down and you go to work, you can win. >> What What outside of the jab, what do you feel is the the most dangerous punch in boxing? >> It has to be the jab. No, >> outside of the jab. >> The left hook. The left hook. I knew you >> I think the left hook the >> is the punch that most people get knocked out by. >> Yeah. And when you watch people get hit by the left hook and get knocked out by it. >> Yeah. >> Usually when they're knocking someone out, the guy's also throwing a hook. >> Yeah. >> So like >> Yeah. timing comes in. Without giving too many of your secrets away when we had dinner that time you you shared with me your philosophy on throwing a hook where you were saying come in here with your elbow down. Talk about that. >> Yeah. You know, I think it's about pulling and keeping the leverage into your hips. When I was taught, you don't want to bring your elbow up because when you land, >> your shoulder, you're using your shoulder to punch instead of your body. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> and if you look at any old school footage of knockouts, right, you look at Frasier, where is his elbow? And, you know, the list goes on. But I thought that was such an interesting observation when you said that and I completely agree. >> I think Yeah. And then you even translates to MMA. You look at Alex Pereira, his number one punch is the left hook. Yeah. >> And he's not bringing it up and rotating it like this. His elbow is >> pointed down towards the hip and he's >> he's got concrete in those fists, >> man. That's one guy. That's one guy is just like, man. >> Yeah. >> His timing as well. >> Yeah. I mean, when Shawn fought him, it's like, why are you not trying to take this guy down? >> Yeah. >> Why are you standing with him? You know, >> I love the fact that Shawn went to go and train with him, though. That that says a lot. >> People give Shawn a lot of crap about what he says and how and like how he acts and yeah, he does a lot of dumb stuff, but at the same time, >> as corny as it sounds, he's definitely a martial artist. >> Yeah, >> you he would hate that you called him that. >> Yeah. >> But he will go out and work with the best guys he can and get the best work in that he can. >> That's what I loved about GSP, by the way, where he went all his different training camps. Do you know what I mean? I think you know what I think there's this big cloud of people saying you got to be loyal to your coach and what I disagree with is a lot of times you have coaches who are not loyal to their fighters and what I mean by that is the coaches aren't putting the resources to put the fighter forward >> and it's a disservice to the fighter >> 100%. So you have to be selfish at that point if you're looking out for yourself as a fighter you need to go out and get the best you can. >> Yeah. So like if I was to train anyone and they felt like they needed more, they needed to go somewhere else to get more, I would never feel an ounce of jealousy. Go do what you feel. >> That's because you're confident in what you're doing as well, right? And you want what's best for them. And then I think the father will come back because of that. >> I mean, I've had guys leave. It happens. Like that's just the sport. You if you if you're going to be grudge every guy that leaves you, >> you're going to be a grumpy old man by the time you're 35. >> You're in the wrong business. >> Yeah. Talk to me about your journey taking some of these young guys and then making them pro because again this is quite new in Singapore, right? >> You know, I a lot of the pro guys in Singapore when they fight in as a professional, what they do is they start in Singapore, they get the fights in Singapore and stuff. I took a different philosophy. I went out and I was like, listen, you want to get a fight, you're going to start with a I told Hamad who's probably he's probably the the front runner for my like guy. He's like my guy. I've train like I trained him when he was 14. >> You know, >> he's come up with you. >> How old is he now? >> He's 19. >> But he um you know, he did NS. He's ODing in May. Super proud of him for going through, you know, he's got a diploma. >> Nice. >> Whatever he wants to do. >> And by the way, you advocate studying. Another big message and story is that you you tell your guys, put the work in inside the ring and outside the ring. >> 100%. You know, I tell people like the chances of you becoming like an actual prize fighter is very small. And when I say that, it's because no one is a prize fighter here in Singapore. >> Yeah. >> And people like, "What do you mean?" >> Yeah. >> Can you name one fighter here in this country who makes their entire living from fighting? >> No. >> Non-existent. >> No. >> Non-existent. Just doesn't exist. That's what a prize fighter is. >> Yeah. So, of course, you got help outside and whatever, but um you know, I tell them, you know, don't my my regret for my career was I stopped fighting way too early. >> Yeah. >> And but I mean, it's a catch 22 now, right? Because now I've got almost unmatched experience when it comes to like where I've been. Yeah. >> Who I've trained. Yeah. >> The level of which I've trained people at. So, >> it's a double-edged sword. But I don't want these guys to be like >> have nothing to fall back on. >> No, 100%. And also like going back to your point earlier, you sent Kos to to go and work with Skipper in Vegas, right? So all these things are huge. What's what's next for the business then? What what are you envvisaging? >> You know what? For the longest time, we've had so many people, >> can we open at Fox Clubs? Can we can we can we partner up? Can we do this? And you know, my wife has been super like, we don't want to lose the essence of what it is. >> Yeah. >> It's the home of heavy hands, right? You don't want to lose that essence into like breaking out and having all these different gyms and then I got to hire a bunch of amateurs to coach. >> That's the that's the where things get lost. >> Well, it's that and it's just like there are great amateur fighters in Singapore. >> Yeah. The contrary point is nowhere else that I've been to, especially in the US, are people going to pay to get coached by an amateur fighter. >> Yeah. >> Just doesn't happen. You know, >> people going to be like, "What?" You know, like you can hold pads and stuff, but like >> running classes. Yeah. >> You look at all the the coaches in the US and even in the UK, >> they're all old guys and they do it for fun, but you don't have the amateurs taking over. Yeah. >> You got those brick layers and stuff in the UK. They they go to those amateur clubs as volunteers. A lot of times they don't even get paid. >> True. >> So, you know, so we're like, okay, business-wise, maybe Hong Kong is next, but we also, you know, just expanded and, you know, we have, if we have the ability to expand where we're at again in the future and open more towards MMA, we would love to do that because I feel like MMA is almost dead in Singapore. >> Yeah. It's weird, isn't it? It's it's just >> there's a bigger boxing scene here, >> you know, >> 1FC when they left and packed up their bags and went to Bangkok, MMA pretty much died here. >> Yeah. >> And it's a shame because like it's a big fighting region. Like the fact that there's no MMA shows. >> Yeah. >> Is a bit like it's just it's just a weird thing that you have to like look for a pro MMA fight and when you look for one there's very limited options. Yeah. Truth. >> So, if we're able to expand the business to a point where we have a a bit a a building that has a high ceiling that I can put a cage in, that's like a 30ft cage. >> Wow. >> Like how they do the apex. >> Yeah. If >> I can do the apex here in Singapore >> while putting together, you know, a fitness area and then just work the business around that. That would be fantastic. >> Wow. just for the fact that we are going to do some absolutely crazy things. >> Yeah. >> In 2026. >> I love it. >> We are doing some like >> the next So, we do the >> I don't know if you followed our page, but we do a lot of like >> like in-house stuff for the for the fighters who they're not going to they don't want to fight at SPF. >> Yeah. >> They don't want to fight in red and blue and like fight in bed. They just want to have fun. They want to try. >> Yeah. >> So, you hold those in-house sparring events. Yeah, >> people love that. So, we call it Battleground. We get SP Monster sponsors it. We get a lot of sponsors and it's a good We have like 200 people there. >> Wow. >> It's crazy. And >> Matt, >> the community loves it. >> Yeah. >> So, we were like, "Okay, how can you expand upon something like this?" So, what we're going to do is we're going to go to Dashi Skyool. My one of my PT clients is is partnered with the Dashi Go guys at KOTU. We're going to put the boxing ring in the center of the pool. >> No way. >> And we're going to have a fight on March 28th. >> Wow. That'll be a spectacle. >> 24 floors up. >> Amazing. Amazing. >> Hopefully it doesn't rain. >> But I mean, it's just one of those things where it's like we've done every single one of them in house. Yeah. >> We're like, >> let's have some fun. >> Have some fun. So see >> I mean who who has put a boxing ring in a pool? >> Yeah. I love it. So now it's just like my boy Jason was like, "Let's do an MMA fight on a cage, a cruise ship." And I'm like, "Man, that's crazy." But that actually worked. And like you hear Kai Car of France, people literally ask him in a lot of his interviews, "Did you fight on a cruise ship once?" >> Yeah. >> And he Yeah. He tells the story. So it's just kind of like why not, you know, why not have like the MTV spring break vibe with fights? >> I love it. I love it. >> You ever seen Lion Hart? >> Of course. >> Where John Clavvenia is fighting the guy in the pool. I love it. I love it. >> I remember when he throw he threw that kick. He slipped. He slipped on the floor. That that film was called Awol in England and uh and it was called Lionhal and it was called Yeah. >> It won't make sense. >> Yeah. Absent without leave. It's just uh but yeah, I love Vanam growing up. It's huge. But but you know what? You know what, Matt? You're you're a great champion for young people. Um and you know, I'm really glad that we're in contact because I just think you're doing amazing things, man. Kudos to you. >> Thank you. And I think I think you're also doing amazing things, you know. I think uh children are also a huge reflection of like their fathers. So your son's doing great things. So I think that's just a direct reflection of yourself. >> Thank you, man. We we sparred the other day and I said to him, didn't I thought you loved me? Before I even moved one step, he hit me like five times. What the >> I I could resonate with that so much because >> you're getting old, Dad. That's what he said. >> Oh man, I can't even spar my wife. She will she it goes from playful to not playful in 20 seconds >> really. >> Ah but the thing is is that like >> River spars how she fights. >> Okay. >> So she'll go hard and she hits hard and it's just like guys in the gym are like >> okay >> you get all the white collar guys who come to sparring and like River just unloads on them, man. >> Jesus, >> she unloads on them and it's just like I'm not going to let you hit me like that. like I'm I'm I'mma jab you back. And then when I start hitting her, she just has that red. She's just like >> it's like oh no. >> It's the half tie, you know? She's like, "Let's go." I'm just like, "Let's not go. Let's end the round, please." You know? >> I absolutely love it. Well, Matt, thank you. I appreciate your time today, man. >> For sure. >> All right, brother. Cheers. >> Cheers.

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