Stitch Duran's Story to becoming the No.1 Cutman in Boxing and MMA | #62

Jacob Stitch Duran is the most famous cutman in combat sports, but his story goes far beyond the ring. >> Of course, they stopped the fight. And Marvin would grew up in Br where I showed uh the documentary to the farm workers. >> Born to migrant farm workers. He joined the US Army. >> I grew up as a farm worker. It'll get a little no lower than that. Uh I was born and raised in what they call migrant camps. So my address is CPC number 12 California Backing Company. Followed my dreams, walked on to a college and but didn't have a car. I decided to join the military in uh 1974. >> Built a kickboxing gym from nothing and rose [music] to become the man trusted by boxing and MMA's biggest legend. >> Can't sleep, right? >> Yeah. >> And I'm putting the final Vaseline on. Give me chills. Give me chills. and and I >> from working corners around the world to acting alongside Sylvester Stallone and Michael B. Jordan and Rocky in Creed and appearing in Here Comes. I can't believe you're working on me, man. So, I'm having a crazy month of meeting people. >> All right. Welcome to the UFC. Huh? >> I did Creed 1, Creed 2, Creed 3. When it was time for Rocky to introduce us to Adas, himself, Sylvester Stallone says, "Oh, this Stitch, best cup man in Philadelphia." >> Stitch, best cut man Philadelphia. Stitched has lived a life few can imagine. This is Stitched Juran. Unfiltered, uncut and untold. >> Jacob Stitch Direan, how are you? >> I'm doing fine, man. In fact, I'm doing great, thanks. This is my first interview in Singapore, you know, so uh looking forward to it, man. It's a pleasure and I can't even tell you how pumped and excited I am. So, thank you so much. Um, I want to talk a little bit about your background, your heritage because my podcast is all about career journeys, but it always starts with your childhood. So, tell us a little bit about, you know, where you grew up and and um as we as you wrote Fields to the Garden. >> Yeah, you know, it's it's funny you say that. Yeah, I did. I uh I was at Mayweather's gym yesterday. Uh I know what's today said uh Friday and Ashley can't remember is from the UK. He's there and all that and we're talking about those type of situations. You know I look I said you know everybody that's training here in the gym they're all broke but they all have dreams and aspirations to become world champions. We're talking right that's the truth. But same with me you know we've all had dreams and and uh I grew up as a farm worker. You know it'll get a little no lower than that. You know, I was uh I was born and raised in what they call migrant camps. And uh in the camps where we worked, we lived in the houses that were supplied by the landowner, but we worked as crops. So, my address is CPC number 12, California Backing Company. So, but American baseball, I always wanted to play that and you know, followed my dreams. walked on to a college and but didn't have a car and kept hitchhiking home and I decided to join the military and 1972 and I uh went to the Air Force and uh 1974 they stationed me in a in a place called Thailand and bro I didn't even know what Thailand was. I was that naive you know I was a farm worker right I was >> How old were you at the time? >> 19. >> Wow. Yeah. Yeah. But but 19 but growing up as a farm worker where really there was, you know, it's uh we were at the bare minimums of everything except foods. We had a lot of fresh foods, fruits and vegetables and and animals, you know, so that we we never lacked on. >> Well, well, before we go to to how that, you know, I want to congratulate you cuz a documentary was made and you're, you know, going to be in Sundance, am I right? >> Yeah, actually. Yeah. you know, they just uh they're supposed to have one here in Las Vegas November the 5th through the 8th. >> So, Rudy Montreon, the director, producer, is applied for it. So, let's see if they accept us. Uh, but we also, yeah, for Sundance, that's uh January the 22nd, I think, through the 28th. And then, uh, so far they've have another one booked uh, uh, in Los Angeles uh, I think like in February or something like that. But uh >> Well, I know I know you've been asked this before, but if anyone was going to play you in a real life movie as you got older, it would be Edward, right? >> Yeah. [laughter] Oh, bro, I get I get I get that all the time. >> You get ripped for it all the time. I bet I bet he gets it as well, right? >> He gets it as well as as matter of fact, in the documentary, uh there's a there's a piece where I used to call MMA Junkie Radio, right? They brought him in as a guest. So, he's sitting in the table and he said, "Yeah." He goes, "People mistake me a stitch all the time." He goes, "And I and it happens to me." You know, I I went to Mir Abdullah, a friend of mine, uh, and, uh, he has a guy from Bakran Bakr. I met him yesterday for lunch and all that. And, uh, uh, he brought up the [clears throat] same thing. Were you in that uh, that series of the motorcycles and my right? [laughter] I said, "No, man. That's not We're friends." >> No. Beautiful. As it should be. Well, just talking a little bit about that just to explain the the title Fields to the Garden. Of course, you famously mean Madison Square Garden, which is which which is the mecca of all boxing, right? So, it's been it's got to be surreal when you look back at your life. Sometimes you got to pinch yourself and say, you know, look how far the journey has taken you so far. >> I'm doing that right now. I'm talking to a guy from Singapore. You know, >> I'm telling my wife and myself is I got to go out. So, these guys daytime for them, it's night time for us, right? and and uh so yeah, it always blows my mind, you know, just these little moments and and that's really what the whole mission is on is is moments like this, >> you know, like like I was saying, I was at Mayweather's gym the other day. I do a lot of gym runs, just kind of shoot the [ __ ] with the guys and barbershop talk >> and yeah, so you know, we got stories and you know, not about looking for work or nothing like that. >> The last thing on our mind is >> No. Well, I think your your human connection unequivocally is is what makes you so great and and I want to unpack the whole psychology about what it is that you do, but if you don't mind, because your your story is really about, you know, immigration. I'm I'm half Chinese, half Irish. I grew up in London. I live in Singapore, and immigration is such a hot topic now. So, I'm I think your documentary is probably very timely. What do you reckon? >> Yeah. And you know what? It's It's funny you say that because three a month ago now, four weeks ago, I talked to the producers about letting me see get the film and go back to where I grew up with as a farm worker. >> Yeah. >> So, I I set it up the the town that's close to us, 9 milesi away is Merced, and they had a theater there. So, I rented the theater and then uh the host hotel was El Capitan and that's where we had Mariachi. Maji is the the group of the the musicians, right? Yes. With the trumpets and the hats and all that. So, >> but everyone that I invited were the ones I grew up with as migrant farm workers and and we grew up in the migrant camp together. So, in in tribute to Caesar Chavez that fought for our rights as a farm workers, we walked, it's a seven-minute walk. We walked from Ed Capitan Hotel on Main Street down to the theater with a mightiatric plane and and just their support, but it was to give them let them know that you know what >> we lived there, we've been there. Those those are our people. >> That's that's amazing. And I would imagine there were a few tears. There was a lot of smiles after you know what a joke. >> Number one thing that they said were tears because my story was their story. >> Yeah. >> Right. and some guys Paul I hadn't seen in 50 55 years when I graduated high school. >> That's mad. That's mad. What a what a coming of age moment. Thanks for sharing. >> Yeah, of course. You know you know when you so when you were in the Air Force and you arrived in Thailand, was that the first time that you learned cuz I know you you a lot of people don't know this that your entrance into the combat world was actually kickboxing, but I'm guessing it started with Mu Thai in in Thailand. >> Yeah. You know, I always said uh if I went to the Orient, and I was thinking Korea, right? If I went to the Orient, I'd want to study the martial arts. And uh but bro, I told for the life of me, I knew I didn't even know what Thailand was. >> And we get there and I told the recruiter, I don't want to go to Vietnam, right, during the Vietnam War. And we land and we're at the base that has the B-52s, the bombers, and all the ammunition. And so, we had to guard them, right? So I I get in and and I have friends that were there like three months before me. So they invite me to downtown Banchan to see some fights. Well, I'm Mexico. I'm thinking it's boxing, right? Yeah. >> I see these guys are doing Muay Thai and they're, you know, they're all the works and you know the the music the wrong way everything and this guy throws a kick and knocks a guy out. I said, "Oh shit." You know, >> so the next day, well, Monday on the bass, they had taekwond do. >> Well, Taekwondo Thailand to me is the same. Yes. >> So I I started with that the GES and all that which was great because they showed us some solid kicks and then they left and the ties took over and they transitioned us to look at the elbows and all that stuff and and I combined them both and then uh getting back to the states I got into boxing to improve my heads and um that's how >> wow you know >> you know I became friends recently with John Wayne Parr who's an Australian 10 time multi-world champion and I'm guessing you never worked his corner right you never worked his corner. >> Yeah. You >> No, I worked the I worked with Dennis Alexio. >> Oh, man. He an athlete. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. He fought what was his name? >> Uh the um >> he broke his leg. Yeah. He was uh >> uh where was he from? Stan Linus. >> Yes. >> Dennis Alex Stan Lenus. And yes, Stan broke his leg. Dennis's leg with a long. for a lot of people who can't remember Dennis he he became you know famous also through the Vanam movie blood kickboxer but you I mean you worked with him he was I mean from the outside looking in he was just an all round athlete because he was a sportsman you know in high school before right can you talk on that >> you know I uh I didn't know who Dennis was you know I didn't know a lot about kickboxing and you know I get back to the states and I go train in the gym and I'm by myself and I'm kicking the bag and Dennis and his team are on the other and he hears me and [clears throat] you know yeah yeah and so he go hey man you know where where'd you study at you know so I told him and uh started working with him you know sparring with him and then doing the pads the the long pads with him and and then ended up being his cup man but until then until MMA guys came in Dennis was the best athlete I ever met in my life >> tremendous athlete I mean he retired >> they retired his number in baseball and football in high school >> that's crazy no does that. >> And the I mean, imagine if he grew up in today's era, he would definitely be in MMA and he'd be a huge star cuz he had the looks, he had the charisma, he had the physique, right? He had everything. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's funny though cuz why I mentioned John Wayne Par, I'll put a picture up on the podcast later. That man has had I think something like 146 stitches >> and you know, savage. So, you know, if he had you in his corner back in the day, he probably won would have won even more fights. Wow, that's crazy. >> Well, now talk to me a little bit about uh because a lot of people won't know that you before you were a Cupman, you your portfolio of work, you did so many different things because you had your own kickboxing gym, you were a trainer, you were an agent. Just talk a little bit about that journey because people may not know that about you, right? >> Yeah. Well, you know, good good point. Nobody's ever asked that, but I'll kind of give it to you this way. [cough and clears throat] When I got out of the military, I just had a high school diploma, right? I I quit school. I joined the military, right? I didn't quit school. I I graduated from high school. I walked on to Merced College, but I couldn't afford to go and I just left. Right. So, uh but I I I went over there and just, you know, just kind of followed my dreams and rolled the dice and came out okay. And uh I got the job with R.J. Reynolds to Tobacco Company, major company, cigarette corporate company. So, I got to learn the sales and marketing >> through them. I sell the the Winston's, the Salem's, the Camel cigarettes. >> Okay. Old school stuff. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was But but but I had a company car. I worked 825, you know, and uh so I got to meet people. That's how I got into boxing in Oakland at King's Gym. That's where Andre Ward trained. He was a young kid when I was there. I was I was >> So that's how you first met. Is that how he asked you to become his um cup man? >> Yeah. I Yeah, Andre was a young kid. A young kid. I was literally Charles King's first member to join the gym. No way. >> I I would drive, you know, cuz I work for a cigarette company. So, I was driving and and saying they were every day they would work on it and I every day I'd stop and talk to him and when they opened up it was $15. And then that's where I that's where I learned I learned the box. I went there to learn the box. And then uh this uh this one coach Pete Pete Alvarado Ice now we're best of friends. uh he got me to help him work as a trainer. And I remember the first time I did my first amateur fight, I I was laughing the other day. I'm working like like this, man. Just 100 miles an hour and and this one veteran amateur coach comes to me and he's laughing. He say, "Hey, man, relax. A minute is a long time." >> That was the first lesson I ever learned, bro, in in in combat sports. >> Relax. And composure, that's what I tell people. Composure is number one. >> Yeah. I know you were I know you work with Randy Couttor. There was a documentary where they were testing the different martial artist strength. I don't know if you ever saw it. It's about the science >> and he he was hugging um and choking out a crash dummy and they were measuring his lactic acid. And what they didn't understand was >> the the longer he was squeezing the less lactic acid he was using. He was actually almost working reverse and that you know he was explaining was just through staying calm. And there are things that are going on in there like why he was so amazing was he would beat people with his will. >> Yes. I love Randy. I uh man >> I always tell people cuz I'm the one that took I rap. I work with him all the time. >> Yeah. >> And uh but I tell people I'd be wrapping his hands in the dressing room and he's having a good time and happy golucky and bro once they put that pin in the gate >> he took that face off and put the Randy you know face on. >> Savage. You're savage man. Good. Good. good. They're all good guys. >> I don't know one guy that's a bad guy. >> Well, my my abiding memory of him that I really loved was when he fought Tim Sylvia, who was a giant and came out and he cracked him with a right hand and put Sylvia on his ass and where the hell did that come out from? You know what I mean? It was amazing. It was brilliant. Now, talk a little bit about, you know, the the kickboxing gym and because at this point in your life, it's perseverance. It's it's, you know, it's saying yes to things. It's opening doors, you know. talk about that because I I think that's the migrant kind of mentality. >> Yes. Never quit. Never quit. But it's funny because when I uh when I was working with R.J. Reynolds in Oakland, uh they had a taekwondo school at Alama College, right? And it was free. So me and my barber went and I think it was like 15 bucks. And I I I went in as a white belt, right? [laughter] And it was funny cuz the this instructor has all these students circled around him and he's parting with every one of them. And I just happened to be towards the end and I just whooped on him real easy, you know. And the girl says this girl next to me, she goes, "Oh my god." She goes, "I I was going to quit cuz I didn't get nothing out of it, but I was staying." So anyway, months later, I run into him at the gas station and he comes, "Hey man, where where'd you train at?" You know, and he was a black belt, right? Yeah. Yeah. He was a black belt. Yeah, he was a black belt. And it's like I told him Thailand is like I took a note off of him like, "All right, good." You know, I didn't get beat by a white belt. I got beat by a guy that trained in Thailand, you know. But uh but but but I moved into the outside of Oakland uh in Fairfield and and working as a city in a cigarette company. I would visit all these little mom and pop stores and and all that. And this one guy had he was downsizing the store and he offered me that side of the store to open up my gym and he would give me a couple months free and you know so with a credit card you're talking about the craziness the migration with a credit card bro I got the carpet got the mirrors got the paint and >> Oh [ __ ] you went you went you went all in and then some >> well but but people had already see I was already established as a top trainer. >> Yeah. So right off the bat, I mean I I had students and fighters. So I but it's I always used to train at at the tons, but now I have my own gym. >> You know, and it was an American school of kickboxing. >> Amazing. You know, you know, one of the things I you know, you're surrounded by people with a completely different mindset and psychology. And I I I'm often asked people because I'm a career coach that you know, like, well, should I make this move? And people I realize are paralyzed by fear, right? And I think, you know, if you talk about a fighter's mentality and your mentality, it's always about just trying your best and believing in yourself and backing yourself, right? >> Yeah. You know, and it's it's I guess I could put it in real simple form and I'm sure you've been through it, but I always tell these people, you know, that one line we're all scared to cross. >> Yeah. >> Man, if you don't cross it, you'll never get there, you know, >> 100%. >> And and mentally, I tell myself, you can't kick my ass, you know. >> Oh, I love that. >> And and then and then I could always say, I know how to pick cotton. I know how to pick tomatoes. I can always go back and do that. You know, literally that's been our our old mental, you know, and >> that's the baseline. >> Well, you know, you know, I told my wife yesterday that we had this podcast. You could tell I was excited. And and she said, "Well, what's what's the job description of a cup man, right? Apart from the obvious." And I said, "In my mind, and you can speak to this, it's a few things, but it's it's basically giving a fighter one more round to make sure that they can do their very best." and and you know you you really give preventative maintenance throughout the fight but can you talk a little bit about you know really what because a lot of people that are not experts they don't really understand how important your role is. Yeah. So, and it's it's great great question, man. Yeah. Our role as a cup man is literally, you're right, to give that fighter that one more round, but more importantly is to take care of the fighter. Yeah. And that's that's number one, right? And it's funny, let me just kind of add with the one more round cuz people all over the world now associate me with one more round. >> That used to be my sponsor when I was with the UFC, Mark Zucker. And what happened is >> he was watching the Rocky movie. Yes, >> I was in I was in the BOA movie. I didn't remember. He's watching the movie to where Rocky is telling his son. You go that one more round. Whatever the he said, man. So, he already had an apparel company. So, he came out with one more round. And Matt Hughes was his first sponsor. >> Yeah. >> Matt Hughes is the one that told Mark that said, "Look, if you want to get somebody that will give you that one more round, definition will be Stitch." He called me and I was with him until >> [ __ ] man. I didn't know that. You know, like talking about one more round, one of my favorite fights of all time, you'll remember this, is when Matt Hughes picked up Fran Triggs, >> carried him across. >> Yeah, of course you were there. Well, I mean, that was I I I had goosebumps for about a week after that. >> Yeah, it is funny, man, because I mean, I work with them both. I love them both, right? Drake, a real good friend of mine, right? >> He's a He's a referee now, right? >> He's a he's a referee. Yeah. Uh yeah. Uh yeah. So >> that that to make that transition. >> Now a lot a lot of people you cuz I I there's a saying that I love is how I do anything is how I do everything. And what I believe is that a lot of people overlook just how technical things are. So you know you know this you can explain this to the audience that don't know that you know to be a referee you've got to be sanctioned. But to be a cut man to be a cornerman you've only got to be licensed in the state right? you know. Yeah, that's that's uh yeah, you're 100% right. You know, and and that's a good point. And I do seminars. In fact, I'm doing one in Mexico September 20th, but I'll certify you because I'm teaching you the basic foundation. Yeah. >> You got to spring up from that, right? Uh so that's a [clears throat] good point. Let's get back into that last question you asked and and you talk about the you know, relationship and and the one more round and that's real important, but so is the mental game, right? M >> and and this is he's in my documentary Vitali Klitskco. Uh I was with him for eight years, heavyweight champion of the world from Ukraine. Him and his brother are fighting the Russians right now, right? But on his last fight, I didn't see him till Friday. Uh and this was at Wembley Stadium with Anthony Joshua. 90,000 people. Crazy. >> What a fight. What a fight. >> I didn't get there till Thursday night because my daughter Carla had got married in the island of Cree. And so I flew out and Thursday after the wedding and uh I see Vladimir and Vitali in the dressing room and and and we're talking you know how's it going just going through fundamentals. Finally I know these guys can't sleep. It's a mental game. You know that you're a fighter. >> I put my hand on his shoulder man. I said look man don't worry about anything tomorrow. I'm going to take care of you like you're my son. And I leave >> cuz I know you guys can't sleep right. >> Yeah. And [clears throat] I'm putting the final Vaseline on him before Michael Buffer does the announcement center ring. And man, he's about this far away from me, Paul. He says, "You call me son, bro." >> Wow. Wow. >> That must that must have hit hard, bro. >> Gave me chills. Gave me chills. And And I the last time I saw him was like 3 months later in Germany. >> And uh I said, "Vladimir, that one moment, why?" He says, "Stitch"? He goes, "There's very few people I trust in my life. You were one of them. >> That's huge. I mean, >> and I got a lot of stories like that. >> I'm sure. I mean, look, you know, I'm from the UK. There's really quite nothing like a UK crowd, especially when you got 95 people, >> you know, but the irony is is that he it's the same with people like Chris Eubank. He became more revered after that loss cuz cuz, you know, such a battle and it was at the end of his career. Um, and I'm I'm glad that he got his flowers even though it was in a loss, but what a hell of a fight. Yeah. >> Can we can we just unpack that a little bit because, you know, I've got a lot of technical questions I want to ask you, but I want to talk a little bit about the psychology of the fighter that you've seen behind closed doors, you know, a day out, an hour out. What are you seeing on observing of the very best fighters? Cuz you I'll give an example. I always remember Lennox Lewis. I'd often when you'd see inside the room, it'd often be lying down. He's a very calm character. In contrast, you have Mike Tyson, you know, punching down walls. But what have what's your observations been? >> You know, it's a great question, man. I love that nobody's asked that one. And and I'll tell you to this way. This Vtor Belffort says, "When I see Well, Frank Mir, first of all, says, "When I see Stitch walking into the dressing room, I know it's time to fight. >> It's go time. >> I got to go wrap his hands, right?" Vtor says when I see Stitch walking into the dressing room, even though I know he's working the other corner, >> yeah, >> he brings that calming effect, >> right? So, so keep in mind, man, I always say these guys are gladiators or modern day gladiators. >> 100%. >> Deep inside, they're all babies. Every one of them. >> Every one of them. >> Yeah. >> All you And and and I'm the one you talk about UK fight Tyson Fury when I worked >> the the the first time after he got cut, right? So I go out and and I meet him in in the gym at Top Rank gym and we go over the cuts and all the basics and what have you not. And I tell him, I said, "Look, man, I'm going to do a lot of preventing maintenance on you. I'm not going to wait till you start swallowing. I'll keep ice on you every round. >> I want to make sure you walk out as handsome as you walk in." But it's all like this, right? >> So after the fights, he wins, of course, and he's in his shorts. He's ready to go take a shower and I'm packed and I got my bag and I'm saying goodbye to him. He gives me a hug and a kiss and says, "Thank you, Stitch, for keeping eyes on me. I love you." >> Well, >> wow. I mean, you you you did um Tyson Fury Wilder two and three, right? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. I mean, I I went to the second one. I when I when it was announced, I got on a plane and I went to Vegas. I was only It was a 48 hour turnaround. And I'm so glad I did. What a hell of a fight that was, >> you know. I What always made me laugh was how high their stalls are given how tall they are, you know. Well, you know, and Vladimir, [clears throat] it makes sense. Vladimir Klitsko did that >> and and I think they might have got that from Vladimir Klitsko to be honest with you. Yeah. >> You know, but he was cuz of all the fights I ever worked with everybody, he was the first one to bring in a tall store >> as he should have resigned. >> Yeah, makes sense. Well, the thing is, Stitch, the other thing people don't realize, and I I want to talk a little bit about this, is when you're wrapping hands, you know, like like for example, Joe Cow's Aagi, Floyd Mayweather, they're always given a bit of stick for not having, you know, real knockout power, but, you know, people forget that they they broken their hands. And when you're wrapping their hands with the knowledge of how damaged they are, you're giving them confidence going into the ring. Talk about that. >> Yeah, 100%. And let's say I'm working with Joe for the first time, right? and and uh what I'll do is I'll go and [clears throat] I'll do dress rehearsals. I'll wrap his hands. There's different techniques for different injuries and what have you now and we'll get the one that best >> helps him. >> Uh metal metal carpals is number one injury, right? And so so because when you punch here's here's the effect you're going to get, right? So I always put I call it the plywood effect. I I come so many different angles and and the theory that plywood is very strong in itself because everything is there's no force >> everything. Exactly. So it's the same principle and uh so that's what I would do. Andre Ward I think when he fired Edison Miranda >> uh Virgil Andre told me that he had kind of heard his hand his fing. >> So I go and I meet with him. They're here in Vegas in the hotel room and we talk about the injury, how it felt and all that. I went and made the adjustments, a little more pressure here, maybe a little bit more padding there, whatever the situation was >> and he got the approval, you know. So, little things like that make a big difference. >> No, they make a big difference and and obviously you've got the coaches and what have you, but in that moment when you're wrapping hands, it's a very intimate >> process. And how do you manage your energy, you know? So, like if someone's highly charged, it do you go in with the same energy or you help calm them down? I'm just curious what's what's the thought process? >> Yeah, you're right. It's uh I've had guys say, "Wait, wait, wait. Here, pay attention, man." You know, uh listen to me. You know, that type of thing. Who was it? Uh uh John Jones. Yeah. When I work with it, man, he's always talking to P. No, no, no, no, no, no. Pay attention. You know, hold on. You know, you know, let me open, close, open, close and all that. But yeah, there's, you know, different guys. is I'll talk to them and you know just kind of relax them and you know just kind of try to educate them as we go and hope there >> do you talk to them or or the doctors you know cuz again a lot of people don't know that some boxes will have lidocaine or cortisone injections to numb numb the hands a little bit be you know I don't think it's the day or the fight it's normally beforehand but you're having that kind of technical conversations as well >> never you know think about none of my business bro People ask me about steroids. I know nothing about them. It's >> out of my league and I don't want to even know anything about that [ __ ] >> Fair enough. You stay You stay well away from it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's something if I ain't got a control over it, I don't want Well, the the the thing that I love about what you do though is you're you're teaching, you know, the these future cornermen what to do because if you let's classic example, Tyson against Buster Douglas. >> Yeah. >> Anything that could go wrong in the corner did go wrong that night, right? And you know there there's I don't know there's rumors that they were using a rubber glove or a condom with with water inside to ice him, right? I don't know what the hell it was, but we all could see. >> Yeah, it was a rubber glove. >> A rubber glove with a Yeah, it's stupid. >> What the hell was going on? It's crazy. >> You know, you got you got the the world heavyweight champion in Tokyo and it it just all went wrong. But do you think that sometimes cuz people probably think if you oh, I'm knocking everyone out. I I don't need Stitch Duran in my corner. >> I haven't heard it, you know. You know, I uh I don't know. >> So, it's fascinating though to me, right? I just think if you're as you're ascending to the top of your at the top, you want to have the very best people, you know, in your corner. But it it is interesting. >> Real quick, here here's a story that just happened uh uh last week, week before last. So, I'm doing a a interview like this uh with a podcast out of Chicago, I think. And the next and I'm telling them about uh Devin Amy. I worked with him when uh he fought at Times Square and I'll be working with him in Saudi Arabia's fighting Brian Norman. Right. Yeah. And I I I made a comment that oh yeah, you know, I work with both of them when they're world champs, right? Well, the next day I get a call from Bill Haney and I said, "Hey, man. I was just talking about you guys. I did an interview yesterday." because I know that's I heard it. That's what I want to call you right now and I want to book you for that fight before they book you. >> That's that's what I wanted to ask you. So like if I if I'm a fighter, I would say Stitch, you know, for the course of my career, you know, I'd like to sign you up, you know, but I know the thing is fights change all the time. Do you not have those agreements in place with some of the fight camps? >> You know, I I freelance, bro. you know, I mean, I I could be you could be calling me to work your corner, but then I have a higher profile fight over here and so or I might be doing something else. So, no, it's nice it's nice to freelance and uh but a lot of freedom. >> Yeah. Well, like like uh Shane Mosie Jr. I think he's fighting in October. Yeah. I'm with him all the time whether let's say I get a bigger fight than that now. Out of out of loyalty to him, I'm with him, you know, and same with Andre Ward, you know, when Andre fought, I worked with him. Yeah, I had those guys, but then I I freelanced with a lot of others. And the only two times I missed Andre Ward's fights is uh I had a UFC fights in Brazil and the only reason I canceled it because I had to have a visa >> and I already had my visa in my hand. >> So, you're good to go. >> Yeah. So, I was good. So, I couldn't, you know, and and this was early in Andre's career. talk about some of the common mistakes that you see supposed Cutman making because so for example, you know, the a lot of people don't even understand why Vaseline's been applied. It's been applied so the the punch glances slides off the face. But talk about some of the other mistakes that you see all the time. >> Yeah. Well, you know, the Vaseline I did an interview on that and they asked me the theory on that. I said, in all fairness, you're right. It's been used forever. But the theory is that the punch will slide off. But if that was the actual fact, I wouldn't be working. Yeah. Right. [laughter] So, right. You know, so but I understand, you know, uh Vitali and Vladimir Klitskco use cocoa butter. >> Yeah. >> You know, and and that softens up the tissue, which is, you know, makes a lot more sense. It's it's to have a twig that's full of water. You could >> turn it into a pretzel. If it's dry, it'll break. Right. >> Yes. >> That's that that to me is interesting. And then the other things that you see with a lot of cut men using different size swabs, just explain to the audience, you know, using small swabs. It's counterintuitive, right? [clears throat] >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Those little sticks about this big. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's like putting your finger in a in a dam that overflowing. And but you know what? And you brought up about being certified >> in combat sports. Every combat sport, none of us have to be certified to be called coaches or cupmen. Yeah, >> referees have to be certified. Doctors, of course, you know, everybody has to be certified except us. But you're talking about the educational value. So, I always tell these young guys, I said, "Look, if you're looking for a cup med, ask him, well, if number one, if he puts a swab in his mouth or in his ear, get another cup." That's old, old stuff. I I got rid of that long time ago. And ask them and make sure they wear gloves. But ask them what the adrenaline chloride 10000 does. That's the the international mixture that we use in the swabs that goes in the cut. >> So being that you were a fighter, I'll ask you, do you know what the medical function is of the adrenaline chloride when they apply it in the cut? >> It's it's to constrict the vessels, right? Versus versus a collagin, which is different, which again I was going to ask you to explain to people. >> Yes. It's a vessel constrictor. So I I I tell these young fighters, if the cupman tells you it's a coagulant, >> get another Cupman. That's the wrong answer cuz they're following the advice of people that don't know. Yeah. And uh Yeah. So yeah. No. >> I mean I I know you know obviously you're you're the expert but again a lot of guys don't know. And one question I had for you is if if if a fighter up and coming can't get that product, are there equivalent products and alternatives that they can use? You know, there's um I always had when I was at USC had companies give me coagulates, constrictors, and I would try I had to be cautious cuz I didn't want to risk a fighter thing, right? Yeah. >> But there's this one, it's a gospad. It's called quick aid, >> and it's 100% natural and it's made out of a seaweed base, but you put it on the cut and it dehydrates the blood. >> Okay. And so that one that's deal but any other ones is there's so many guys the commissions are very strong and and they only allow certain medications >> wherever you're at very very specifically. Now just give a shout out to your website so people if they want to buy your products because you've got a a great bunch of products and my favorite one is the KO Swell and I want you to to explain how you changed the design of the Nswell. Yeah, that's um Yeah, it actually it's not my it's not my my website. What happened? We're we're talking stories, right? >> Yeah. >> So, I I was always traveling, right? And so, if you order my, you know, my athletic tape or my chaos, well, I'm [clears throat] gone at fights. I'm in Singapore. I get back Sunday, Monday, right? Yeah. And you ordered Wednesday, right? So, through a dream, Juan Ramirez out of San Diego had just started cut man for higher supplies. So I called him and he's a cub man also right? So he's just starting his business and I said look Juan would you be interested in selling my tape and my KO swell and I'll help you on the marketing aspect you know help you grow and that's how we started. So >> I didn't know that. >> Well no let me tell you now going into that if you notice his biggest fight that's coming up right now Canelo. >> Yeah. If you look at the tape he has, it's Stitch Premium Athletic tape. And what happened there is uh Elliot Onoso uh when I was working I was telling him the story about how I hooked up with Ju through a drape and uh so he got some of that tape and he told Canelo the story and and they support us through him wearing it. And when he fought, I can't remember when he fought, Beranga, I think. I went in the dress room and I thanked him and he says, "For what?" You know, I said, "You know, for doing this," he goes, "Hey man, you know, we got to help each other out." It was nothing for him. It was nothing for him. But if you look at all his promo shots, he has my tape on his wrist and on the glove. >> What a man. >> Yeah, that's the way it should be, bro. >> It should be. It's just It's all about kindness. And well, talking technically about that, they have Have they confirmed that the Crawford fight and the Canelo fight, the weigh-ins are the day of? That's what I'd heard. I I don't know if it's been confirmed, you know. >> Yeah, I didn't know, but I heard that was a possibility because if so, that's that's a bit of a game changer for the fight, right? >> Well, I Yeah, you know, I'm always against uh Well, let me put it this way through education, right? Everything's based on education. About 25 years ago, I did an interview on me wanting to educate, do videos, wpping hands as a cut man, right? this young guy John Barnhouse had just graduated from the American Film Institute and he contacted me and says, "Hey man, you know, I just finished and I need, you know, the experience to." So we got together and we ended up getting so many interviews, so many so this is when Lendex Lewis fought Tua, when Fernando Vargas fought Trinidad here in Vegas. So everybody's here. >> So we can Okay, we need and nobody turned us down. So, we got so many so many interviews that we put a documentary together called Boxer's Nightmare and it deals with all the [ __ ] that fighters went through then. >> Yes. >> John passed away about a year and a half ago >> and I had seen this film in over 20 years, bro. Cuz I was nobody. No, we talked to HBO show. Nah, you know, they don't want they don't I was nobody. I was still Jacob here, you know, and this is like 25 years ago. I've been here 30 years. And uh so we never did nothing with it. Well, when Job passed, I watched his film again and they blew me away, man. Cuz everybody I have are all Hall of Famers. Half of them are dead. >> Half of them are dead. I got Mike Tyson before he got his tattoos. I got Eddie Mohamd. >> I got Fernando Vargas. And I got referees Joe Cortez, Richard Steel, Mills Lane, >> Mills Lane. >> I got Emanuel Stewart. I got Doug Bus, Chuck Bodak, Miguel Diaz. I mean, all these people that talked about the ills of boxing then. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and I look at it now, I said nothing's changed. >> Now it's affecting MMA. >> Yeah. >> Right. I I I'm noticing guys I've been gone with USC for 10 years. Guys I run into that I worked with are showing dementia pugilistica, the slur speech syndrome. >> Yeah. >> And uh and it's affecting them. So anyway, getting to that point, you're talking about education. >> Yes. Dehydration. and but I want to do a video and get new interviews as to why nothing changed. But in this dehydration in the documentary, Dr. Goodman is saying the reason they changed it from the day of the weighin till 24 after is you don't have enough time for your body to turn the water into cellular whatever the things are. Yeah. >> into your body within that short period of time. But is it it's an advant is an advantage for Crawford or is it a disadvantage for Canelo? So I don't know if it's been confirmed, but if you break it down in in politics and all that, I wouldn't be surprised if they accept it. >> You know, you know, I grew up um in the UK with Nigel Bang, Chris Eubank, and um Watson, and then obviously the the tra tragedy with Gerald Mlelen. And you know based on the research that I've done, this is the problem. And why most of the injuries in boxing are like middle weight down. It's not heavy weight is because of dehydration. As you know, it's the number one danger for all for all boxers, right? Um and and at combat sports. But the problem is it normally takes a solid 24 hours for the body to rehydrate, but it takes a solid 48 hours for the brain to rehydrate. And that's where the brain injuries are happening. And I think that's why Eubank Senior was so worried about his son fighting Connor Ben because of the weight restriction and all these clauses about IV drips. And it's just um it does it it's crazy because if you think you're going into battle, you're fighting another man who's world class and this guy's trying to take your head off and you're dealing with the weight issue. It's you know it's crazy. >> It's it's not normal. Eddie Mustafa Muhammad in this documentary, he says the ultimate goal of a fighter is to render his opponent unconscious. And that's the knockout. The knockout creates long-term damage. >> Yeah. Madness. Well, look, one of the other things that that's again that I noticed that you do, which again, not everyone historically has done, is when you're in the corner, you will pull the the the cup out to allow the the boxer to breathe and all those things. You know, when did you pick these things up? Cuz you've been doing it for years, but these small things are hugely important for the fighter. >> You know, it's funny you say that cuz uh in the Creed movies, Michael B. Jordan said that. He goes, you know, I never noticed, you know, you pull the cup out. Yeah. >> I said, "Yeah, cuz you know, cuz number one, they said, you know what it's like? You've had a cup there. You know, it just it it's tied up around the belly button area, you know, and if you pull it out, and I've done it, guys, and >> you can see him take that breath, you Oh yeah, you know, so uh a lot of that for the on the, you know, just make them comfortable, but also the psychological. >> Well, with the last thing I just on on on the technical side of things, I just wanted you to explain how you decided to curve the end swell because historically when I when I grew up, it was always a flat bar, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that. I was coming back from London, as a matter of fact, in the UFC, right? And I think it was me and Bert Watson. were sitting down at at the airport. >> But but just sorry to interrupt you. Bert was such a legend. I mean, I've never met him, but when you see that the energy that that man brought, you know, to to the back office and the the changing rooms, he was on another level, right? >> Oh, he's one of a kind, bro. And I still stay in touch with Bert. And, you know, if you want, I'll send you his number and >> Oh, please. I'll be glad. I'm sure he'll be glad to uh I'd love I'd love that. Thank you. >> Yeah. Now Bert uh you know when Dana brought me in the UFC uh he brought Bert Watson in also >> and the only one that came with the old UFC was Leon Tabs >> and Leon Tabs was the original cup man from >> UFC number one and they brought him on board and when they brought me on board they brought on Bert. So we're the ones that put that program together. They're all everybody uses now with with additional cut men. >> Yeah. And uh so yeah, Batson >> and the and the end swel you decided to curve it. >> So the end swell. Yeah. So I'm at the airport with Bert Watson and and to get my water, right? We're sitting there and I go like this and and as you notice it's curved down here, right? >> Yeah. >> So I I I came back home and I bought some clay and I made a model. In fact, it's in the freezer cuz I don't want to touch it, you know? I don't want to soften up and all. So I did. But I made a model and then I had uh somebody go and and make me a iron one. And then once I got that then made so much sense because >> and and [clears throat] I learned that through this documentary. The people I talked to everything that I've learned >> and being a cut man has been doctors that I've spoken to at ringside. >> Yeah. >> And they're the best, especially in Vegas are the best of the So I learned so much off of them. But Dr. Hmansky said, you know, these guys that get the theory is they used to get it and you try to move >> that bubble over here. But what you're doing when you're pushing it into a tissue that's not damaged and then now now it gets a little bit bigger and but the old adage of when you know you get cut you direct pressure it closes up the blood vessels and that's what you're not going to get rid of this father you just got to maintain it and go direct pressure. Well there's one fight that I know you cornered and you know I telling my son my son's uh he's a amateur boxer and he didn't grow up watching these fights but I know you were there. the biggest cut I've ever seen. Marvis Marvin Eastman against Belffort. Tell I mean I afterwards I'll put an image up of this cut because it was ungodly. I mean it was like a canyon, right? >> Yeah. It's funny. You know my uh my son-in-law does my social media and he finds [clears throat] stuff that I've never I even forgot all about. But just yesterday I saw that video and really and Marvin Marvin had a major cut. Vtor >> Belffor gave him a knee long >> and just sliced him big time right through the point where Joe Rogan saying that you know it looked like he flayed a fish or a shrimp or something like that. [laughter] It was it was major big right. So I'm working on Marvin. Of course they stopped the fight. And Marvin grew up in Merrcett where I where I showed uh the documentary to the farm workers. Right. So he grew up there. I didn't know him then, but he was 9 miles away. But I'm working on him and I >> I could hear the people in the big screens. I know they're watching [clears throat] that and it's a close. So I said, "Marvin," I said, "This is the biggest [ __ ] cut I've ever seen in my life, man." >> I [ __ ] like that. He starts loving. He started. So I knew he was okay. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I haven't seen him since. >> What a warrior. I mean, actually, when you look at those their physiques, he he and Belffort, they were in ridiculous shape. Then by the way, one of my favorite boxers of all time, Marvin Marvin Haggler talking about I got to show the I still got the biceps in a little bit. >> But um but I tell you that was that was crazy. And uh I I I look back and I think wow that was crazy. And that when you think about the difference between MMA cuts and boxing cuts. I mean they're they're miles apart. But tell us a little bit about that because MMA cuts are just there's a lot more of them and they're a bit more horrific. Right. You just answer it right there. You don't need my quote. >> Yeah. [laughter] But but but talk about that because because a lot again a lot like in boxing fights get called off all the time early. But also I wanted to ask you is it different for each state? Because when we saw who was it? It was um the baddest [ __ ] fight between Nate Diaz and Mazvidal that I felt that that was stopped early but I I think it's because they were New York. Hell, I worked Nate Diaz. >> You worked him that night, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was cut, right? Yeah. >> He he lost to Mazda because it was stopped if memory serves correct. It was for the baddest [ __ ] fight. And look, Nate Nate always got cut and and it, you know, they always say about the Diaz brothers if they take that back. I didn't I didn't work. That was when he was in the UFC. >> Yeah. You didn't work that way. >> Yeah. No, that was out that was out there. I worked when he fought uh uh that last one that he Well, who did he fight? Joe, he fought Jake. Paul. >> He fought Jake. Paul. >> Yeah. Well, so >> so so but does it make a difference B based on your observations the the state and the referees calling the cuts? >> Yeah. Yeah. The good good point, good question. Yeah. It's uh and a lot of doctors like in this documentary that Dave Richard still Joe Cortez they said you know we always see who the cut man is >> and if he's somebody that's recognizable that you know we'll give him that opportunity you know but if we see a guy that's that's working and he you just know it's bad technique or he's not doing anything right then it's time to call in the doctors. So that's the thing I was going to say, you know, like uh being being a sports fan, when you see that there are certain referees in the corner, you know, be it Mills Lane, Kenny Bis, or you're in you're sorry, as referees or you're in the corner, you know, all of a sudden this is a world-class fight and you know, everyone's going to be, you know, at at the top of their game. That that's how I feel anyway. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's 100% right. you you were um my favorite fighter of all time just just to watch in terms of pure excitement is Mike Tyson and you were in his corner for the Jake Paul fight. Tell us what your observations were cuz this Mike Tyson's on another level. >> Yeah, you know, I've known Mike for those whole 30 years I've been in town, right? And and uh Amir Abdullah is the one that hooked me up with Mike, right? And uh but it was good to get get back together with him. He's such a good guy, man. Behind the scenes, you know, he's just a different guy. But man, I tell you, when he was training, >> he was training a little bit more than I would have trained at that age, right? Yeah. >> And uh so, but Amamir had him slowed down in his training. But bless his heart, man. You know, this guy's one of a kind. >> You know, it wasn't anything about winning or losing for him. >> I I've heard you quote him talk about pain. I'll let you explain that quote about pain, please, because that's that to me is it says everything about the psychology of a fighter. >> Yeah, that's in this documentary, right? And you know, send me your email. I'll send it to you. >> Yeah. >> Take a look at it, bro. You know, I mean, it'll educate it. Just, you know, it just I mean, >> people, nah, don't show. No, no, I want to show it to people. I don't care. It's not about the money. It's about for you to understand what goes on in the game, right? So, uh Oh, [ __ ] I forgot the question. What was the question? >> No, no. I was just He talked he he his about taking pain. >> So, I I I'm asking Mike. I said, Mike, every fighter has that one little thing that nobody has. What's that one little thing? Well, first he throws some nichy stuff out. Well, you know, you got to get your body in 100% physical condition because your mind tells your body what to do. Okay, fine. >> Yeah. >> But then he says, "Take the pain. You have to take the pain." >> And I thought about it once I left, you know, I'm thinking, "Wow, you know, he's so right knowing you guys. You take a pain in training. You take a pain in fights. You take a pain with your family. >> Yeah. >> You take a pain financially. Yeah. >> And hopefully you don't take a pain longterm damage. >> Yeah. >> You know, so that's and I tell these young fighters all the time, you know. I I I try to encourage them through words of encouragement. You know, you got to take the pain. >> It's so interesting cuz cuz I've learned along my son's journey how I was I've been delusional all my life because I always believed Yeah. I'm not afraid of confrontation in any context. And a few years ago he he was he was probably 14 15 at the time and he told me he was scared going into a fight and and I said look that's of course darling that's very natural. And then afterwards I realized look we all are but some of us are delusional. You know we we we lie to ourselves in that moment when when we're younger. Um and you know what I always said to him is some of the guys that you're fighting against actually in theory these guys could be your best friends because they live the same dream as you. They're getting up at 5:00 and running in the morning. And if you were going to war tomorrow, you would want those guys stood next to you as brothers on the front line. >> A good way of putting it. Yeah, you're right. >> They're gladiators. >> They're gladiators. >> It's a It's a This is a sport of gladiator. >> You know, you get in there and you hit people, you know. >> Yeah. But but but I'm curious, you know, when you've walked back to the changing room after one of your guys has lost a fight and it's a very somber moment, you know, what typically are the reactions cuz cuz I'm just curious. They must vary a lot and do you find that all of a sudden a big chunk of the entourage is gone? What's what what are you obsing? Sound like you've been in the dressing room once or twice. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny that you do that, but in in the same token, you know, let's say you got a big big fight and and the fighter, you know, loses, then yeah, you know, first the team will go on there, you know, and then we'll just kind of reassemble ourselves and, you know, here's what we did and then they bring them in. But, uh, no, usually the ones I work with, they have solid entouragees, you know, good people. They're not entouragees, just good family members and and people and all that. >> The real ones, as I call them, the real ones. >> Now, now you weren't there for these fights, but obviously you've seen them. I'm just curious what your observations were. So, like when when um Ali fought Sunonny Lon and there was the problem with the eyes. Looking back, what do you think realistically was it? Because everyone thinks, oh, um Lon's corner put some [ __ ] on his gloves, but it could have it could have been a intentionally. It could have been a bit different. And it could have been something that he was having on his face or what what do you what's your take on it? >> Well, it could have been a thumb, right? But in fact, it's at the May with the gym the other day. We're we're talking that's barber shop talk, but we're talking about something like that. I said, you know how easy it would be to get a jalapeno pepper and just rub it on the outside of the glove and you throw it out and you put it in his eye. So >> that's it. >> And you'll never you'll never be able to detect it. >> Yeah. It's crazy. Well, the other one the other one that makes me laugh is so I was talking to Jim Lampley about this was when Ali Cases Clay at the time fought Henry Cooper in London before he got the the Liston fight and he got knocked down in the fourth round and he was [ __ ] He was really in in bad shape. And I was re-watching this a while ago and Angelo Dundy this one of the guys gave Alli blatantly sniffing socks because his eyes just came up like that. And then in in the documentary that I was watching, they were saying he probably pulled the string apart a little bit um to buy him a few more seconds. But I'm just curious based on your observations, have you got any stories of things that you've seen in the opposite corner without mentioning people that you've seen things going on that might be a bit shady? >> Well, you know, during the corners, I'm always focused on your face, right? But going way back in 19 I'm saying it's when the Soviet Union first broke. I I think it was like 1991, December the 12th. We took a [clears throat] team of professional boxers and kickboxers to Kiev to fight dirt boxers and kickboxers, right? Well, I had Mark Long, which is a kickboxer and he cut his opponent and you know, next thing I know, the guy's coming out. It looks like he has a rubber patch that's covering that, right? And I told the guy, "No, no, you can't do that, man. You got to take it off." You know, it's just like a inner tube patch, you know, right there. And I said, "No, no, no. You can't do that." you know, but no, you know, uh, usually it's the ones that I work are all high-profile and the inspectors are there and you know, so so it's it's it's okay. I mean, I remember when Ro Yol Romero fought Tim um >> Tim Kennedy >> and then he got extra time. They put ice on the floor and I thought that's a new one, >> you know, and it worked. >> Yeah. and I work with Tim Kennedy. And as a matter of fact, I did their uh the Avenue promotion uh Jon Jones uh really what's it called? >> Bloody Bloody Boxing or Dirty Boxing. >> Okay. >> And so I did their first show in in Miami and Romero and Arloski uh were the main and and semi-a. But I'm working with Romero and we talked about that cuz I said, "Yeah, you know, you cuz he was getting beat. He was getting beat 100%." >> Yeah. he was getting beat and you know sometimes I do it but anyway it is it is so I'm working with Joel Romero and my job I'm I was a coach before but I'm a cut my job as a cut man is not to give instructions >> and and and I don't you know somebody asked me I'll give you an opinion but with Joel he had lost I looked at it that he had lost the first two rounds you know and he says down he's working them in the Spanish I just whisper maso more aggressive That's it, right? And he went out there and knocked the guy out. So anyway, he has a real popular podcast also and he I think two, three weeks after that, he got me on as a guest and he asked me this question in Spanish. He goes, >> "Do you remember what you told me in the Third Realm?" >> I said, "Yes." I told him to get more aggressive. We see that's something that he'll have in his memory forever. >> I love it. >> 100%. But one of my favorite quotes of all time, it it was the way he delivered it and I showed it to my wife is, "If you have a dream, just go." He just says, "Just go." I can't I'm not going to try and imitate him because when he says it just puts chills chills down my my veins. He's just such a savage savage. I don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm but I I'm just curious based on all the fights that you've cornered, boxing and MMA, which of the the couple of fights that really stand out to you that you enjoyed the moment the most? Oh, well I um >> Give me one at least. Give me one from boxing, one from >> I'll give you a nice one with Vanderlay Silva against Chuck Liddell. >> Whoa. What a fight. >> Yeah. So, I'm working with Chuck Liddell, right? And Leon Times is working with Vanderlay and and of course, you know, they're I could just hear that one of my top two. I could hear their punches. Bam, man. They're cracking each other. And I see it. Now I'm working on Chuck and Leon's working on Vanderlay and and uh [laughter] it's at the end of the fight I clean up Chuck. He has a little cut. I clean him up. I go up to where uh Vanderlay is and Leon's working on him and his he look like the elephant man. Face is all swollen. And after Vanderlay, how you doing? How you doing? He go no sta. I'm okay. I'm okay. Well, about a week or two before that, I told them because we're they used to call me Santana at the Pride Fights [laughter] Vanderlay Showun. I'll tell you that story to remind me. And uh but uh yeah, so that's how we ended up doing. But he, you know, backed me up on that and I backed him up and >> I love it. And what what about on the boxing side? I I know that Klitschko against Joshua one held held strong. >> Yeah, that's that's big. >> Well, but Vadley, I'm I was telling him it was my birthday the day that they fought. And when I went over there and I checked on him and this guy was just in the toughest fight of his whole career, bro. Toughest fight. Leon's working on him. Bethley, how you feeling? No. I'm okay. I'm okay. And then he says, "Ste, happy birthday." >> Oh, you're joking. Wow. >> I swear to God. >> Wow. The axe murderer. The axe murderer. You know, >> and the hardest fight of his life. And >> he still remembered. >> He remembered my birthday. Well, it's kind of crazy because these guys grew up in Pride and then they crossed over and it was like, you know, they Chuck Liddell really was the the biggest thing in the UFC. But not just that, you were did you work Forest Griffin couple of Did you watch which ones did you corner for him? I know you did a few, right? >> Yeah, I did. Uh yeah, just about all of them. I did when he won against Stefan Bonner. >> You did that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, >> so the big the biggest moment, the turning point in the UFC, you you were front front and center. >> Yeah. Yeah. I was Randy Coutur, his coach, right? I I was the cut man for that team. >> And uh I mean, every day I always rap for us and and uh but yeah, he ended up with that cut. I kept him in the game and at the end of the at the end of the fight, >> they're waiting for the decision. Excuse me. And I'm standing next to his coaches and one of the coach says, "Stitch," he goes, "I'm not gay, man, but I got to give you a kiss. Thank you. Give me a kiss." [laughter] Right. So, so anyway, he ended up winning that fight, right? And and it changed the whole game. And then I worked with uh with him when he fought Shogun, >> the first Pride Fighter versus a UFC fighter. And and Forest ended up with that big old gash in his forehead. That's in the video games now, right? >> Yeah. And I did, bro. I did med I threw everything in the kitchen sink. The all the medications I had and I kept him in there. He won the fight and >> you've got less than 60 seconds cuz it's got to take you 3 seconds if not longer to get into the ring and out. Right. >> Yeah. Seven 7 seconds. Yeah. >> Seven. Now you timed it. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's usually if you're in there with 7 seconds is good. >> Okay. But yeah, I got on it and I used the Avatagulant. I used the adrenaline, which is a vessel constrictor. I put the Vaseline and and adrenaline mix as a final topical. So, I went on the cut and that big vein that Tim Zoo had. >> Yeah. >> Right. That big vein when you last when you pop that when you pop that vein, it's bigger than the ones around here and it won't absorb the adrenaline for the vessel constrictor because there's too much blood flow. >> So, with him, I applied the pressure and first I put in the uh Avatine. No, first time. Sorry. I put in the adrenaline chloride to close up the vessels. And then after that, I put the avatine as the final and I plugged it up. He ended up winning the fight. >> Yeah. >> And did you send me a he sent me a nice uh uh gift certificate to a real nice restaurant as a thank you. >> Wow. Well, listen, he should I mean, he should have sent you even more than that because that completely changed the course of his career. I mean, I'm just curious. Did you did you sense in the moment cuz you didn't know what was going on spite TV? You didn't know that was building up, but did you think this this is really going to be something? >> Oh, one day they brought me in. >> Yeah. We're not with that particular fight with >> the first 100%. >> You could tell >> and and in the book that I wrote for the fields of the garden by the way and I was on.com I I I tell the story where I'm sitting next to Dana White's dad Dana and Don House the other cut man and and we're talking like oh man it stopped bleeding you know every round we looked at that cut because it was such a serious cut >> and they're complimenting me and stuff. So, we're working together and uh yeah, got it done. >> You know, you know, if you were in the opposite corner against Jon Jones, you know, you've probably got your work cut out for you that night because that man is the king of dropping elbows in in the octagon, right? Really, he knows how to deliver some serious elbows. >> Yeah. He uh what was the kid's name? The the guy that was deaf. Uh cuz I worked his corner. >> Matt Matt. >> Matt. Yes. >> Mhm. >> He get Yeah. Matt. And and I was working his corner and he's laying down like this and all his sockets and his eyes were full of blood. >> I just get a thousand and take it out before anything else. >> Savage. Absolutely. Absolutely savage. >> So So real quick with Jon Jones a quick when I saw him at that uh at that dirty boxing I said you know let me tell you a story man when you fought Joe Saund you remember when you broke your toe and he said yeah yeah well the doctor's asking me what should we do Stitch? and he's asking me, right, I got a high school diploma, right? Yeah. So, anyway, at that point, I had just come out with my own tape, a stitch premium tape. So, I got his toe and I pulled and I straightened it out and I wrapped my tape around it and I said when the cameras hit it, that was my first commercial. >> Wow. >> I didn't because that actually because I remember they they were interviewing Rogan and they the camera went down and they saw his toe and it came straight back up and it was like, "Oh shit." And I don't even John didn't even realize at that time. >> No, no, no. He didn't. It was literally like this. >> Yeah. >> It was going up and and broken to the side. >> I I hold on it and kind of straighten it out. >> I think he's not given enough credit, you know, kind of like Muhammad Ali until Ali's end, but that how tough he is, you know, not not just mentally, but physically, you know. But just just just share with me, you know, who are some of the guys that you've been in the presence of, the fighters that you think, wow, these guys are they're elite, their psychology, their calmness, or or almost a little bit scary to be in their presence. I'm just curious, which are the ones that stood out to you so far, >> you know, Caleb Plant, the one I'm working with right now. He he has that mind. [ __ ] I tell people, Caleb's my friend. >> Yeah. >> I'm scared of him. >> He has that personality, right? And >> yeah, he's he's he's intense. >> Yeah, he's intense. You know, >> I I love his trainer. I think I think he's done some amazing things with him. And um Caleb Plant's a very good technical fighter as well, isn't he? >> Yeah. Yeah. Very astute, good, good, good guy. Super good, bad. >> So, he carries. It's so interesting cuz you only you don't see it on camera. It's when you're in the presence of somebody you think, "Oh, this guy's a bad motherfucker." You know, like it's just in person. And uh I that's so curious. Um >> and he is and that's the thing about it. Caleb is is a badass. >> He's a badass. Talk to me talk to me about your journey get getting into the movies because you've been in a number of movies. I I think the first one that you were in was was it Play It to the Bone. >> Yeah. Just by the grace of God, bro. I don't know how it's happened, but it just they called me. So, well, uh on this first one, I was leaving RJ Reynolds to Tobacco Company. I work with them for 23 years. So they >> 23 years. Crazy. >> Yeah. So they gave me an option where if I left, because they were downsizing, if I left, they would pay me for a whole year with benefits and everything. Uh and so that was my opportunity to concentrate and focus on boxing. And uh so I did that, you know, and from there I just carried it on and carried it on and you know, been blessed. But I get a call that day that I'm leaving that they want me to go do an audition for a movie with Woody Harrison and Antonio Baderas and I'm working with my boss and I'm very astute. I mean I'm an honest worker, right? And it's my last day. So this is about 10 11:00 and I have a 3:00 uh interview or audition as they call them. >> So about 11:00 I said Augie I said you know they uh they asked me to go do an an audition for a movie. He goes I'm just here to sign you out. Boom. He signed me out and I went and did the audition and I ended up being Woody Harold's cuffman but I wanted to be Antonio Bander's cupman cuz he was Latino and I'm Latin but Chuck Bodak, the legendary Chuck Bodak got in front of me. He wanted Baderas. I ended up with Woody Harrelson. But in the movie he gets cut. Woody gets cut and they Oh, don't worry. You got the best cut man in boxing. And so I got a couple accolades and you know and then I did uh Oceans 11. >> Yes. Yes, I did when Lewis fought Vladimir Klitsko. >> Is that when you met Klitschko for the first time? >> I had met Klitsko in the Ukraine. >> Yeah. No. Well, when when Klitschko Vid Vitali and Vladimir came to Vegas to train before right before Oceans 11, they were with Kennyos and that's when I went and talked to him and I showed him the poster and that was our first connection. And then in the movie, I was the cut man in the movies. And uh that's when they robbed the casino and and Lennox and him, we went into a ring fight, right? And uh and from there uh I there's a MGM fight, fights at the MGM, and Manuel Stewart has his tuxedo. He's commentating for HBO and he's walking by and he says, "Hey, Stitch." He goes, "Want to talk to you about Vladimir?" He goes like this and see my friend. You see what I next day he called me and says Vladimir says he wanted the guy that was a cut man in the movie to be with him and that's how I got ended up with him. So real real quick if I could remind me to finish the stories of the others but with Vladimir Klinsko uh he's in this documentary and really I didn't know the whole story but he says and he's telling us in the documentary he goes when I got stitched he goes my career could have ended. I had lost two in my last four fights and if I would have lost this one, >> no telling where I would have been. I didn't know all this. So I ended up same cut with Forest Griffith, but I had the doctor stop it. Uh when it was time, I opened the cut up in front of her. What do you think? I opened it up like this and uh cuz the best possibility of him winning the fight was right then and there. So I did it, >> stopped the fight, went to the score guys, became world champ for eight years. But he says, "Best decision I ever made." Wow. So that was that was you know my thing with Oh, go ahead. >> No, I was going to say, but you weren't in um the Klitschko's corner against Lennox, were you? >> No, but because Stitch, if you were in my corner, I would have won the fight. >> Yeah, cuz he famously got stopped because of the cut, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. That was that was a dangerous fight for Lennox because I mean I I think >> nobody knew where Vitali was. >> Yeah. I mean, but Lennox should have had a sense because he'd met him during Oceans 11. He had a you know, he just probably just didn't know how tough he was and how good he was. And it was it was a changing of the guard really. It was it was really I I have to say cuz I have these disagreements with people, you know, like Barberhop talk and I I think the best heavyweight of all time taking away really what he did outside the ring other than Muhammad Ali is Lennox Lewis. I just think he was so big, he was so technical, he was so brilliant. And I think there were a couple of times he got complacent and then he lost, >> you know, and it's the heavyweights, one punch can change everything. But but that I I it's interesting cuz I just I I grew up with him and I, you know, in the UK he was never that loved initially because of Frank Bruno. >> Right. Right. >> You know, and who was the darling of the UK, but I almost feel that Lennox kind of only got his his flowers right at the end. I guess if he hadn't have fought Tyson, he never would have had it. But I wanted to ask you about toughness because I think the toughest guy that's ever put a pair of gloves on in the boxing arena is arguably Evander Holyfield because he's stepped up. He had heart conditions. He he he's just an a phenomenally tough man psychologically, physically. What do you what do you reckon? I've never looked at him that way, but you know, I I gotta give that same compliment to just about every fighter that gets in the ring. >> Fair play. Yeah. >> Yeah. I said, "Fair play, man." You know, so uh anyway, so going into the next movie was Balboa. >> Yes. >> So when Rocky Father's last fight, so Joe Cortez, the referee, called me right where I'm sitting at right here talking to you, >> he called me and says, "Hey, you know, would you be interested in, you know, being a cut man and you know, BOA?" And at that time I was working with Fabricio. He was a cruiserweight champ from France. He was fighting in Leo and France. And then the week after I was going to be in England with Odley Harrison. He had just come back from winning his gold medal, right? And uh I turned it down. >> By the way, Ollie Harrison and I went to the same high school. >> Yeah. He's older than me, so we never in the same Yeah. >> I've never I've never met him. >> Yeah. Neither have I. >> So So yeah. So I told my I said, "No, I can't do it." Cuz I was thinking economics, a world title fight in France. And then and then I called my wife at work and she goes, "Are you crazy?" She goes, "Rock is an American icon. You got to do it." And I thought about it and >> and oddly Harris's people, I deleted my message to them and I said, "Oh, you guys understand?" And they understood and it turns out that the fights in France got cancelled anyway. >> Fate. >> So yeah, it was fate. >> But tell tell cuz I I know the quote cuz I love I know nearly all the worst of the Rocky movies, but he he actually called you by your name in the movie. Tell us that's that. I'll play this clip later. But and how that came about. >> Well, that's that's for the Creed movies. >> Yeah. >> Right. And and >> Oh, sorry. It wasn't for the Bab movie. It was for the Cream. >> No, cuz I I was working with uh I was a light-skinned brother with Antonio Darver. >> I see it. >> And what I did, I brought in Livingstone Bravo, former world champ, beat Boom Boom Mansini, and then Don House as a corner guy. So, I always brought guys in for authenticity, right? Yeah. And uh so yeah, so that was Bola. Then I did uh one with Kevin James, Sam Hyatt, MMA movie, Here Comes the Boom, >> and uh but Creed, I did Creed 1, Creed 2, Creed 3. But in the Creed movies, uh my name [clears throat] was Marcel on the script. I'm reading the script and say, "Shit, I don't know anybody named Marcel." Right? But so I got I got figure, well, how am I going to do it? Right? And uh but when it was time for Rocky to introduce us to Adonis, him himself, Sylvester Stallone says, "Oh, this Stitch Biscup man in Philadelphia, bro." I was so happy, man, that you know, the next day I thanked him. He goes, "No." He goes, "It has to be authentic." You know, >> I love that. So, you didn't know until he delivered the line that that's what was going to happen. >> Yeah. Right then. Right then and there. And then, and then another line, you remember when Rocky got sick? >> Yeah. And when he's doing pads >> with [clears throat] with Adonis, well, in the movie, we had just left. They just showing little silhouettes. So, we had just left. So, they know we had just left. So, Rocky gets sick and and we're in Philadelphia. We're on the second floor uh and and it's snowing outside. So, we're on the stairs going up to the second floor and they're going through that scene and all of a sudden I hear Stitch and I kind of make the move to Naz. maybe it's part of the movie. And uh well, sure enough, but it wasn't part of the movie. So the next day, I'm wrapping Michael's hands and it was always just him and I and I treated him like a fighter. That's why he respects it so much. But I said, "Michael," I said, "Let me tell you this, man." I said, "I guess nobody's asked, bro." But that scene right there when you yelled out Stitch makes so much sense. And I'm going to tell you why. >> Because you know that my job was to take care of you >> and you know that I had just left. And then Rocky gets sick and your instinct is what? To call for me. That state of the movie. [laughter] >> Amazing. Amazing. >> Yeah. [clears throat] Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. >> And then and then you know here comes the boom. You're in the corner. You you you gave Kevin James a tight slap. I wanted was that was that scripted or was it not scripted? I'm curious. >> Same same thing again, bro. I get the script. I ain't got no lines. And And listen, residuals, they come all the time, >> right? But I have no lines. I say, "Shit, I got to think of something." But when it was time for me to do my thing with Kevin James, Kevin pulls me aside. He goes, "Stitch, we got to have you say something." Bro, I already thought about this two weeks before we even got there. >> Yeah. >> I said, "Well, look, man. I always tell the guys, "Welcome to the UFC." Ah, man. That's great. That's great. Well, he calls me in and I'm working on him and St. Can't believe what a week I'm having and can't believe so and so and all that. Well, he didn't know I was going to slap him. Nobody did. I go, "Oh, I walk on to the UFC and I walk off." Everybody started laughing. Everybody It was one take, but it stayed in the movie. That's my my million-dollar line. >> And And listen, he would have loved that as well, being the great comedian that he is, right? With a great sense of humor. >> Oh, yeah. It stayed in there, man. But they all Everybody started laughing. Everybody was laughing. >> I love that. Can you can you give some advice to young fighters in terms of the psychology when they're entering, you know, the their first few fights? what what should they be thinking based on your observations, what you've learned over the years. >> Yeah. You know, you brought up adrenaline earlier and that's like [clears throat] your number one that you got to take care of and and uh and understand, you know, your your probabilities and your possibilities, you know. But one of the things I always work with a lot of fighters is is balance points. You know, if you have a good solid balance, you know, you run a nice rhythm. Pretend you're out there dancing. It's that same mentality. Nice and relaxed and you're fluid and all that and but you're always thinking you know, and >> I love that. >> So, I try to give him as much advice as I can. >> I love that. >> Yeah. >> Is Madison Square your favorite venue of all time? >> Uh, or do you have another one of >> No, that's uh God. No, we're we're nos. >> You know, you know, you know why I ask is it when I used when I was a kid and I would dream of becoming a world champion boxer, I had it very vivid memory of all the great fights in Caesar's Palace and it always felt different cuz it was outside. >> Yeah. >> And [clears throat] maybe it was because I remember when Holyfield fought bow too when the parachuters came in, I just thought this place is just different. But that I I I never got to watch a fight there. Do you know what I mean? Um, but >> that's that's when that's when Klitschko won his that's when he won. He fought outdoor Caesars. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I'll give you a little behind the scene real quick. So, I'm outside the tent watching the fights and somebody says, "Hey, St. Come here, man. Need you inside." Well, Vladimir is warming up, right? And he punches himself and he gets a nose bleed. So, I'm working on him. I'm working on him before he even gets out there. So, that's uh Yeah, that information is not shared all the time. Well, I'll tell you actually telling stories. I don't know if you heard this one. So, when I met Jim Lampley, he became great friends with Emanuel Stewart. They became the best of buds. And Emanuel Stewart told him that the reason why Haggler Hearns was the fight that it was was just before the fight, he went into the dressing room and Hearns was just very nice, very accommodating man, and he always had a bit of an entourage. And this fell was rubbing his legs, massaging his legs. And Emanuel Stewart said to Tommy, "How long has this been going on for? How long has been rubbing your legs?" He said, "I don't know, half an hour." He said, "You're [ __ ] man. You You're going your legs are shot. You're going to have to go in there and take this guy out early." And that's why it was a three round war. Apparently, that's the story. Mad, eh? >> Yeah. You know, and and he kind of mentioned this in this documentary he did years ago. You know, that's what I'm saying. you know, all these all this information, but Emanuel Stewart, of all the people that I've worked with, by far was the best. Vladimir fought uh Samuel Peters. >> Yes. >> And and got dropped three times. >> He ended up winning the fight. Nobody does that. But Vladimir >> uh uh Emanuel was so cool, calm, and collected with his instructions. >> Yeah. >> That he took him into the next round. One more round. One more round. literally choreographed choreographed the real. >> Can you talk on that because cuz for me he's the greatest trainer of all time and and you know when I again going back to Lennox Lewis when Lewis lost against Oliver McCall you know one of his checkmate moves was he caught Emanuel Stewart but tell me cuz you've been front and center why do you think he's the best? Cuz I think he's the best trainer of all time. >> Very basic psychological put them both together. Here's remember I was telling you about balance points. He was good with balance points also, you know, and uh but I would see him and just the instructions that he would give and then the respect factor that all these guys got based on who Emanuel Stewart was >> just just like Romero, he had the faith and enough of for me in me to go out there and get aggressive, right? And that's the same that these people respond to Emanuel. >> Yeah. I'll give I'll give you I'll give John Jonathan Banks. I worked with him with Emanuel as a fighter and I also work with Jonathan Banks uh with Emanuel in the corner. Jonathan Banks is the one that is carrying on his tradition. Emanuel. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Beautiful. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's when you look at the the group of fighters that came out and I remember watching an interview with Emanuel Stewart where he said if he was in Gerald Mlen's corner against Nigel Ben that wouldn't have happened and and I believe that you know he knew he had the wisdom and and the voice to make a difference. >> Yeah. Let me show you something real quick. Give me a second. >> Please take your time brother. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> What the hell is that? >> How long have you lived in Vegas for now, Stitch? >> 30 years, bro. >> Wow. >> 30 years. Oh, yeah. I packed it away. >> What? >> Oh, no. What were you going to show me? >> Hey, we got one more round. Hold on. Let me see. I got >> Take your time, man. >> No, no, no. Here we go. Now, I was going to show you the uh >> Oh, yeah. the crop. But he this was for Caleb Plant. Uh but but Emanuel made one for me also. Uh but this is the infamous Look at that. >> One more round. >> Oh man. >> Yeah. I love that. That was the infamous one more round. >> Yes. I packed I packed my other one away and >> you must I mean you must have some memorabilia over the years, right? Have you kept most of it? >> Yeah, I kept a lot of it. Uh none [snorts] none on the walls. [laughter] >> Yeah. Just you know >> that's the irony way. when when you when you look at the I'm just you know I'm just fascinated because you you've seen more than nearly anyone else because you're you're front and center. Which of the staredowns do you remember that you thought wow this this is bone chilling? >> Not really. I don't pay attention to that. You see that? Yeah. At that point I know it's just psychology, right? And uh but no but I it's funny. Amir Abdullah was uh we were doing an interview yesterday and Chisora calls him and he on FaceTime, right? And and we look at him. Yeah. We look at him and all that. Said Chisora. Well, when Vitali fought Chisora, we're standing there doing the announcements. I'm next to Vladimir. Chisora's coming right by him. He has water in his mouth and he goes and spits it all over his face. I'm like, I was going to give him a front kick in the nuts, >> but I figured, man, if I do that, I'm starting a chaos, right? But yeah, so that was Tora. >> Oh man, he's he is such a character, man. >> He's such a character. He was talking to Joseph Parker the other day and he was chatting a bit of chatting a bit of lyrics to Joseph Parker and Parker didn't like it. Um, but you know, he's he's a real one. He's a maniac. Um, Stitch, tell us about any anything that you're working on, any projects now or up and cominging fights that you can share with us? >> Anything? >> Yeah, well, I thought, you know, we're we're doing the um the final things on this documentary for uh just now they just entered it into uh three film festivals. Uh Sundance, they got one in they got one in Las Vegas here >> uh November the 5th through the 8th. And uh so it'd be nice to make a premiere. [ __ ] I mean, fighters, they'll all come. you know, and uh but the Sundance is like major. >> And then then they got one in LA and and so on. So working on that and then like I say, Boxer's Nightmare uh when I get things organized and and get back to it, uh I'm going to be adding to that and call it Boxer's Nightmare 25 years later. How come nothing changes? And uh but working with Fighters, Fighter's voice, you know, this with uh you know, everything that's happening. But no, been blessed, bro. You know, just everything's happening. I can't complain. >> Listen, I I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I was so excited about speaking with you today. Um it's been an absolute pleasure. >> No, thanks, my man. Good job. Good show, by the way. >> Good. Just do it again. [music]

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