#29 with Dipashree Das: Journey in Marketing and Branding Amazon & Netflix

hey guys today I had the pleasure of sitting down with the pastre Das who is the head of partner marketing at Amazon for which she was part of the early apack team with Netflix where she held seminal positions was a real pleasure we look back at her career growing up in India to moving to Singapore and I really enjoy this chat as much as I hope you do cheers hi de how are you very very well especially today so big fun to be here thank you for coming you know I was contempla I told you wear my Pink Suit Jacket may your wardrobe change halfway through the pop pass what do you think I just think you look fabulous as you are but like if you want to give me company think is always very well well I've got my constant camer here but I got my pink po squares so so polished you know the gentleman in Singapore can take a queue of your you think fashion sets well actually funny enough so this suit jacket right it's a double breasted yeah and it's I tell you the back story so I was 14 I was watching 1415 the 1993 uh Sports bued ward in England so it was the best or the most popular sports bus based on their achievement and ly for Christie was the Olympic 100 met Champion 6'2 black fantastic phys Z and he didn't win that year so the next year he became the world champion and he won and he wore Su at this he can car off a l better than me because he's tore broad shoulders and it was a pin stripe but it didn't have any in the PS and the funny thing is I can remember seeing it when I was 50 wow so I went back to try and find pictures there were no pictures sh for the vi listing um so I had to take screenshots but you know the the image was a big brain me so I didn't quite get it but that's what I was going for but it's it's mad that I remember like that's your core memory you formed a core memory seeing yeah and is only in TV once but you know so look for the few people that may know know you cuz a lot of people know you please just can you be kind enough to introduce yourself and uh a quick overview before we dive into your cre thank you so much first of all for having me on this amazing podcast I have watched uh several episodes I really like the way you do this so um about me I like to think of myself as a uh Market here by choice and a Storyteller at heart uh my career has is going to complete almost 22 years this July I think it's time to retire but there isn't enough do in the bank to retire just got to keep going yeah got to keep going for some years um and uh so I have uh basically been I like to bucket my career into three parts so I've done a whole lot of marketing uh and you know how people like to specialize that's clearly not my domain I'm I've done all sorts of marketing so I've done prodct marketing I've done consumer marketing I've done content marketing um I've done B2B I've done b2c across all sorts of Industries um and I look back and I say why did I do that like why did I not stick to one kind of marketing right I remember this one Experts of mine once said that a good marketeer should be able to walk into any room and within a few weeks or months be able to Market that product and I think that kind of stuck with me and said I just want to be a good marketer irrespective of what kind of marketing so that's one part of my uh Journey the second which I called very dearly is content so I've buing content a mix of broadcast and digital content for almost five to six years uh both in India and Singapore and I I know we going to talk about it later and the third part is part shits which is kind of my current role and also has been my role at other companies I honestly stumbl into it um mainly because uh I was kind of hustling at one of my roles in singel and I said we don't have what we we don't have enough uh to do the kind of business we want to do so why not partner up and I did know at that point of time that that's what Partnerships was right so yeah so those are the three part what you it is right it is it is a lot of it I mean people talk about your career being super well planned I I think my end goal is kind of well planned well desired rather uh but I have always been very open to whatever route might takee me back uh so pretty intuitive in a manner of speaking so I like working with people that give me Positive Vibes well listen that's it makes a big difference right 100% it just changes the game talk about so firstly what a lot of people may don't know is that you studied English I did in I'm a graduate and the least educated in my family by the well really I should mention that everyone is a master so my mom is a masters post that she did I don't know how many specializations uh she's a published author uh my dad was also a masters my sister's also a masters I just talk at prui and it's go too late you could always do it right if you wanted like I've done like some courses here and there to upskill myself I don't talk about them much a mostly professional but like no joke every time I tried to do something so I got it to columia uh in in New York um I got a new job I got into Manchester I got a new job uh I almost got into inab as a school I got a new job so it's almost like the gods of the professional world do not want me to study for that did you well listen I don't think studying is overrated but when you call something that's really tangible that in theory that that or Masters is going to hopefully get you too yeah why wouldn't you I I I I really do think Paul you're so right like um at some point I do Wonder like people ask me all the time especially younger folks that I have had the Good Fortune to meta is a very strong God but just guide in some way they ask me have I done an MBA and I say no and it shocks them uh it's not that I don't want to at a time what I wanted to I didn't have the resources to because I had to take care between me and my sister we have to take care of our family as well um and then life through many other challenges in the way uh now when I follow business theories and Concepts very closely I realize what a head start start it would have given me had I had the chance to do it but am I worse off if that I don't have an EP 100% no it's an acceleration but can you do without it yeah if you are a hustle like me you can listen I'm telling you hustling is so overrated because I I I think underrated sorry people don't think about just how if you if you have recorded the world's greatest love song yeah right but you don't H get hour already you you're not going to make five 100% I agree like the fact that like your business and and I know that you do so much like the fact that what you have said to do if today you didn't have this this is a really good vehicle to build the business I hope so like today is a Saturday you have a beautiful pool we could have just chill in the pool yeah here you are I'm hustling I'm working well the funny thing is it's uh someone asked me the other day and actually my wife asked me a couple of months ago do no have you even thought about what you're trying to do with the podcast why you set it up I said no I just went out one day spend $155,000 on equipment you know she she didn't think about it and and you know everything that I do everything now is by Design everything is structured because I'm too old not to make sure that it works I can't for to loseing time and um but one of the reasons that I had set up the podcast was really I wanted to also encourage my children to realize you know if you want to do something just do it and execute right don't don't listen to naysayers um and what's the worst thing can happen and the the funny thing is is uh it's open some doors cuz we don't know each other ex the first time F each other on YouTube and and you were gracious enough to pick up the phone and we had a great sh you know it's amazing so tell me a little bit about your your back sco where did you grow up and and then how did you come to Singapore well I grew up in a really small town in India uh in one of the most ignored parts of India if you will it's the northeastern part of India in this beautiful little town called Shalom uh and finnally when I went to Deni for my undergraduate uh and I used to say shalong I kid you not H the people did not know where it was being that that's how ignored the northeastern part of India unfortunately is and again here's a uh little little interesting tip bit I'd like to share that part of India or at least the state I'm from has a lot of Mongolian and Chinese uh influence and descendants so I actually grew up with uh Chinese Indians if you will as my neighbors and friends wow so and by the way by the way my kids are all of us not quite that mix because I'm half Chinese half Irish okay my wife is um a little more than half Indian the other the other half is margely European that's Wings the good kids and the mod contract and they you know they're very lucky that they were born you know that they got their mother's good looks and the fathers that's un real I don't know is a good thing but by the way uh Isaac and I went to Mongolia for an offsite a couple years ago and it was amazing did you ever got no I haven't but but because U I've seen a lot of a simply because I grew up in that pace where they are either directly or indirectly Descendants the the ethnic people and they were my friends and schoolmates and classmates go but that's where I grew up it's beautiful it's called the Scotland of thees and it was the summer capital of the British when they were the overlords of India um that's where I grew up small very humble family uh interestingly my dad was a refugee from Bangladesh okay lost every thinging um came to India was taken in by a very kind relative and he worked two jobs to support his siblings got married pretty dat at the age of 40 after marrying everyone off um and then obviously he came into his life pretty dat as well uh mom like I said is I think one of the most intelligent people I know uh and is is like I said she was a professor of big literature and a lot of why I love literature is because of her very Bic what what did she white book uh she's a poet okay so a lot of the Poetry is actually spiritual and therefore far beyond the Realms of my understanding um but yeah so uh so that so we didn't have much at all growing up but like I remember going to school and seeing uh kids carry this back in the day there was this uh water control temperature control water bottles yeah and like as kids you want that right or you wanton the Barbie doll because everybody has that and my dad used to say don't compare water bottles and even now when I sing that should I have this I can have this now but then his words come to me I don't think he meant only water B who meant a lot of so well he you know parents are in the voice of their children yeah yeah you know and the weird thing is when you come from nothing uh which he did in his case It prepares you in a very weird way to be be okay with going back to R because you know you can do it right uh then against the wishes of everyone I went I chose English literature over engineering and Medicine the only two career options available to middle class Indian children at that point of time uh I think I was backlisted or was like how could you you are a semi-intelligent being what are you doing what are you doing your future is weak but thankfully iemed myself a little by getting into uh what is now and then the top graduate college uh in India the isira college for women um pretty hard process to get in went in big city for the first time and like I said people didn't know where I was from but Paul if anything changed my life it was those three years of college wow how so I was introduced to two concepts for the first time I was brought up by a very Progressive set of parents my my father was very Progressive so uh neighbors would come and say to him um oh so you have two daughters that must be tough so he'd be like no they are equal to two sons yeah but I'm sure it wasn't easy for him to deal with but for the first time in college I was introduced theoretically to the concept of feminism and I realized that my father has been a feminist all his life without knowing the theory of fa is introduced to the writings of Virginia wolf Maya and know all of that right right so I I realized that that's who I am uh I may not be a flag bearing uh of that but I am extremely extremely passionate about equal rights about equal wage and about women being more represented wherever they are to an extent that now the entire team get full of women by Design or be right um and the second thing I realized I think I my dad already had told me this weird thing that you you can be do and have anything that you want you just have to want it bad enough yes elisar just my college just cemented it just said doesn't matter where you're from we know you're a small to girl but guess what you can be the General Secretary of the students union because you won that election and to me it was Unthinkable how can I you did you don't even know where I'm from but you voted me into power and then I got called and said we want to be the presidence of the student cubian I said I don't like the politics of it I'd much rather pick up a dead society and make it into something there and I gave my friend the chance to be fres that in and of itself became like a life-changing moment because I suddenly realize that the big city is a perception that people sell to the small town people to scare you off yeah there it's just in your mind and it hasn't said the business this world I mean exactly so I realized I may just be the small town girl with the big city dreams but I think I learned how to hustle there so I'll tell you about the hustle uh I used to get very little pocket money obviously because very humble parents and Dad but already retired by that time so I figured that if I had to live in Delhi I had to earn my own key so I started going to debates into inter College debates at Oran body so I to win they or to get someone prize money prize money cor so that forced me to become a really halfway decent public speaker but I feel bad for your husband now because you turn you know I'm married to a lawyer and a professor so I I I get B every day so he and I have this in common now so uh and yes but if you meet him uh he is the more measured one so he will he be out and then they will see one thing that silences any so I'm like okay I make my B okay uh and French for 50 years for that um so I loved that and then I also got one of the biggest opportunities of my life in college that I think was that opened the doors of the big world for me so the likes of companies like IL at that point of time never recruited from graduate schools they would only go to the MBA School the top NBA schools in in something happened that year and they said we want to try by recruiting graduate students because we think they'll be different so we were essentially diversity experiments we didn't know that they didn't tell us that so they came to our college and only three other colleges in all of India one more in De and one in the southern part of and they put us to the ringer they did lots of interviews and I remember being try myself I remember even starting the interview by saying believe you or not I still remember I laugh word I started interview I say I begin by believing in myself well they threw me down to Mumbai I met all the heads of businesses all of that and then suddenly I land myself in the management training program in one of the most prestigious companies in the country if not in the world un L fantastic like sorry but I don't know the first thing about business literature so I think that's how the college shaged me it introduce me to one of the concepts that I hold the dearest to my heart which is where I firmly believe that women are incredible as our wom but we are so much catching up to do when it comes to equality that it disturbs me that it's even a discussion right like it should be like that's where we should begin everyone should be like my father well and if you think about it today it's a hell of a lot better than it was from our parents generation you know my mom um she was born in Singapore moved to the UK okay which was 14 went from being in a very wealthy family to a very very poor family and she worked for the s Service needed all of her career and she had a boss who said to her this was when she was probably in their late 40s uh he said look you're only getting this promotion because you're female and you're from a minority and my mom said to him if I've only I've only worked for 30 years or whatever for that to work in my favor so I'll take it yeah you know what an IND to say that to her right just showed how SW wind he was so yes certain by No Doubt no doubt so then tell us you what happened after that unfold the the the journey absolutely everything fell apart it's un the first year I was like amongst the smartest brains in the country Uno was what was then called a day Zero company at campus or at all of these best B schools in the country Day Zero means that some of the smartest braids get picked up and then day one day two day three whatever I wasn't even familiar with his consultant here I am and another graduate student and he's still in New Year my first few months were absolute utter shock disaster I was like I don't know what to do because I don't have a master's debut lighted up like and like I can't go back yeah where do I go back so they are talking supply chain they are talking brand marketing they are talking sales and and what they do is they do a one and a half year rotation across all functions it's almost like a mini NBA for you it's Bri it t it sh me everything I know I but then can you imagine sitting in a room full of smart people who are like so uh what is the LTB to CAC and you're like sir L what are you talking about right so absolute hor horrifying first few six months and then I said this okay I don't know how to speak like you guys never going to be like you and I think I developed almost like an amorance for how they used to talk like no disrespect to anyone but like almost like machine they sounded like each other so subconsciously I decided to be more of myself which I don't care if it's good or bad um but I decided I will do things my own way and I will learn and be like a sponge so I went to everyone for help I said see I don't know so teach me what you know and I'll know I think I'm a fast learner and if I keep ego sight but a lot of people will lack the courage to go offer that Health you know I mean I was all of 21 I had nothing to lose I was not getting baggy pay you know I was getting to travel around the country yeah it's fantastic it's fantastic not too many people I to be very honest two graduates in the entire country got that chance I was one up there amazing so why not be humble about it and do it right yeah but the wor isn't over the training gets over and then they assign you you to your sales territory what possessed them to assign me and completely inexperienced sales manager if you can call me that after three months of trading uh to the country's largest sales territory uh which includes the City Bangalore uh if you're familiar with it and other territories around it at that point of time had Mo I sorry was it blind SE was it like no one I wanted to go there because like why you that but we hadn't had a growth there for 3 years there was this amazing lady sales manager who handed over to me I remember walking into the room with 45 really season sales people I'm 21 right so obviously all of them are much older than me in their 30s and their 40s and all of that and they looking at me say is this a new inel yeah I should be I should definitely not be your manager yeah but so you can imagine that I'm their manager but that's how they think about yeah so what do I do and I don't know but I think I learned my biggest leadership lesson on that day I remember walking out and cry I remember I still remember the mall I was standing outside and tears steing down and it's so it's so dramatic it started raming at that so it's almost like Bollywood movies when like music is playing inprise and I said to myself okay you have nowh to go you're pretty screwed uh your dad isn't reached by any stretch of the imagination so you got to stick this out right so I went back in and I said think of me as the inter I don't know [ __ ] but I know some things that you might not know how about we partner up don't think of me as your manager just yet what I do know is I can bring resources from the center office to solve some of your problems I do not know what your problems are clearly there are problems because you've been in the red for 3 years yeah what is the problem let's go fight out and they looked at me and said you weird because no one's asked us what our problems are yeah not that sort of problem be so we figured that there were tons of damaged goods we figured that our distributors or resellers as they were called that pters to unhappy with us because of the dumpin that was happening we figured that and with no disrespect to anyone that came before it was just the way business was run that be at that point of time and we figured that there was not much face to-face relationship perade had nothing to do I I literally went to The Villages met the people I even got told that why are you doing all this you should get married should yeah and then one of the Distributors said I don't want my dog to up like you was like oh this job is really working out for me but part I'm telling you in that 2 years where I was a sales manager I think I learned everything I know about eishi imagine having a 45 people te all of them B up more experience imagine having this rors looking at you and deciding you're not K and they should I'm 21 years old yes I had a training program or work because you for things I'm smart but why should they yeah given now I know why I was given that teritory 3 years in bre M the smarter people didn't want to touch it because they want to get their their promotion and their incentive what if you can't turn it on so I look back and I say had I not been given that lesson yeah I what Happ been half the person let you all the there well listen they obviously saw something in you right and uh there's a tiger in there for sure right so what happened how did you unfold it I really just partnered up with my team like I I I actually have friends with uh three or four of them even now I they are in pretty senior leadership sales position I talk to them every now and then um I I think at that point of time this is 20 years back so there there's no replacing face to-face relationships I went and apologized to the Distributors who took back a lot of damaged goods we put a system in place for saying if the goods are 90 days and above whereever take them back so obviously I had to do a lot of supply chain correction with the central office but we did that and one thing that I realized to date is make a new Lodge work so when you are launching a new SKU that to call it make that work ensure that you know who your top 10 Distributors are ins shorted they know what Longs that product so I went a lot by what I had learned in the first 10 months in the company during the rotation program and then I said let's apply what I know but I'll lead by what you guys know and what you haven't had a chance to can you give them a voice right the guys for the first time I come so and then they said to me that you are asking us for our opinion no one has done that yeah they all came it thinking they knew that place very well yeah but the fact that we have our voice counts is weird but you know the market you you were probably more impactful on L cuz if you had been in the job for 10 years you know you probably go assuming that that's assumption is a mother of all Fidelity I firmly believe that I went in as a rooki and I don't think I can call it a success but did we turn to did we manage to turn the area around we did we we broke even but how I I don't think it's my C it's St CR yeah I was hands up I said I will enable you but you do the F you own the relationships I don't I will just be the enabler and you tell me what you me to be enable because let's not pret for a second that I know that business better made but you know great Nas do that they they renew the road dos From the Path they facilitate the team as you said in NE wow I didn't know what but I was just like try to survive to be very so so what happened after this cake then so after that I did brands for a while uh did worked on two of my favorite Brands uh and we'll talk about b l i r a question about which can pay that stuff and then uh believe it or not I actually took a 60% pay cut to do what I always wanted to do really yeah I I I was due for a promotion I still remember uh Nea and uh I just said I want to do this is all great thank you so much but I want to do content I want to be a journalist yes so I had gone to I walked into P to a friend um who's an entrepreneur now he was at the te station at that point of time I said can you introduce me to the editor um because iide that they're looking for some business correspondence and I could you know do business stories so I walked into his move and I said I could do business stories he said and what's your experience with journalist I said I'm a national level debat I spoken to thousands of people like you have never spoken to a CER up he said okay we'll give you a shot but what will you give in return like what is your gift to this get I said well I can do branded C she's like yeah it was the last time would take I said well if you give me a shot only then I can I love it only then I can do this right yeah but thans to that man I still hold living one of the highest regards he gave me that shot yeah so I did both um and the next five years I think probably the one of the best five years of my life like you know Paul when you walk into a room I used to say I will die in the new room the live energy chemistry of The News Room news breaking I I I have not done news but like I have been in the PCR uh the production control room I've been behind the camera I've been obviously in front of the camera see was guy off I have covered D get general elections which is the like they say the biggest movie of all the with all new respect um I've I've met I had the privilege of meeting at that point of time who were some of the biggest business names CEOs Etc kind of tried to getting to their ones like I'm sitting across you now I I've interviewed them and then at some point of time I told myself this is all great but I want to learn every part of the business cuz it ever I want to run this as a business need to understand need to understand everything how does the PCR run how does the camera division run then I realized that all of that aside how do you run the business of content how does content make money how do you backward and forward integrate it you need to know that because you can make like you said you can make the most brilliant ease of content music and not put it out to the world I don't care or I can write sorry sh City Muse Market it really well on Spotify and be in the top 100 billboards yeah so that's where I learned to do content monetization I learned to pitch content to Banks to Airlines and then they be like so are you going to be the one producing it I said yeah I'll produce it so from pitching to producing to presenting some of them I've done all of that um and then it decided to move to Singapore in the middle of the how how did that call it off was it was it with your your husband or yes it was with my husband at that time uh my my husband which uh unfortunately not last okay so we moved and I left that very very like I love that job with my heart like I used to be on the edit table at 1:00 a.m. at night and like you couldn't peel me away because that's how much I love that John you were all in I was all and then I came here I was telling your son really a while back I started work at a a really small production house and I'm very thankful to them for giving me that opportunity in the middle of that recession but imagine the dystopia I know the disconnect where I was when I left I was told that don't leave because we will offer you a massive chunk of the evening band and what used to happen and I Know It feeds the ego right I was at a stage where I I used to walk into restaurants and PS and I I used to see my show name played because we were on the top business channels and people used to recognize me and to give all that up for someone that betrays you um is just earth like and my world just fell apart after like a year year and year year and a half well um but again my job SE like I got hired into CH Asia a part of group again you couldn't peel me off because I was on the edit suet at 1:00 at night uh I was setting up the dital team and I swear to you if I did not have that and if I did not have my team that betrayal would have just made be a different person they don't know but they say to my life yeah they saved my life because they gave me a purpose to get up a p so everything went uh the fancy condo went the the fancy lifestyle went and I can be open with you a journalist anywhere in the world world doesn't make much money I home it's better now but back in the day it was preciously so then I had to find again I actually lived in my on my friend's cultures for six months what by the way why I'm something GL to share the story because I about two daughters as you know and the one thing that you know my mother taught me and uh I'm trying to teach the girls is that in financial Independence is very important for because you you know if you're in a marriage you you want to be in a marriage because you're happy or because you have to be yeah right and the things called perate as you know so please sure oh 100% and I'll I'll talk about it I'm doing something about that as well I'm very very passionate about women getting the money and getting the back oh and there there there are just I'm so glad you're teaching your daughter that I don't think our parents knew enough to teach us that yeah but my dad told me 100 times when I was moving to sore do not move without a job do not move for a m imagine for a father to say that yeah bring very good advice but but I did not follow it so love love anyways uh so I mean I went from living on my friend's couches and having absolute panic attacks to like this job really giving me purpose and somewhere when you I I asked what of my closest and she's moved to Berlin now and I I liveed in a house for like almost 2 mons I said you know why do we do this why are why are you and I here at 1:00 like when we could be out doing anything else she said because if you and I don't do it it w exist we are creating something this that you and I are doing will help someone abs for sure right that's the beauty of content that's why people are addicted to the liks of Netflix Prime video Everything which is why it is so meaningful it's almost like an emotional thing right and that's why you and I can never not do content so part of it is so I remember telling myself that I am living in people's couches and their guest shoes today how how old were you at re time R I was I just eared 30 so this is about like a 12 years so that's that's a tough place to be at that cuz hopefully normally at 30 things are come together yeah and they broke apart yeah and I told myself that I contemplated Ewing in actually because it's easier in India yeah because I'd have my family to support me not financially because I'd still be responsible but at least emotionally and I'd have a place to stay for sure but then I said to myself I am not going to leave this place that I L so much not going to be forc never going to leave a man let a man make me leave this place I will leave it when I want it and I will leave it when I'm living in a b p house yeah so on your terms on my terms and it did happen my when I went back to India uh before the pandemic with with my neckflix day yeah I was doing a ped house that's it I was like all away and now when I see your house I'm like okay so um that that was a pretty tough phas to be very honest but I remember thinking that a relationship the wrong relationship not all relationships it it didn't start me in any way it made me careful uh but I'm an eternal optimist uh it can turn it's its back to you and I love that you brought up the financial Independence I was not Independent by any means I am fiercely independent now um but your career will never turn its back on if you give it your love so that's why I it's a great sound Bo that that is spotter if you give it the love and the hustle I have never woken up on a day and say look my career looking at me and saying baby we are done today yeah oh it's just given me more and more you know you know what's really interesting because um I I'm grew up in a very poor family so like uh I was already working from a very young age and particular helping my dad with his business he was a builder and uh money was very tight and he had a stroke and I had to start like yeah I had to start with 14 and then he was on he was on the wrong medication for 2 and a half years so he was no in Ireland sorry in England he's from Ireland but we're in England and um it was a really rough time and then when I was 17 my mom said I was in college do my air levels and she said D you're going to have to get a job but this was Friday night uh we're going to have to get a job on Monday and and uh I think might have to drop out of college and it's got to pay weekly we can't wait till the end of the month to get paid and um Back Then There Were High Street agencies they couldn't have made agencies yeah and I went there and uh the only job I had starting that day I said this going to be today not I need to get paided in the other week they said um we've got a job as a cleaner in a hospital I said yes please I'll take it and uh yeah and then and then they they said you don't even know how much money right I said okay how much money and uh what was funny was I at the end of three months I I work in h so I learned color coded for color coding from working hostals cuz that clean specifically and uh at the end of that what happened was uh I was handing in my time seat and the fund ran and I said good morning an Services how can I help you and the manager there said what the [ __ ] you doing I said I'm answering the telephone what do it look this is in England right said it was a bit Punchy and he said you speak English I said probably better than you though and because all the uh CES there were forign refugees right so he said what's your story so I told him I he said do you want to you know get a job in recruitment I said what's that and then he told me I said if it gets me out of the latri for sure but then what happened was I uh I didn't mind I would do anything but I wanted a bit of recognition right in terms of financial compensation I don't care what the title is how to get paid so I said to my boss I I want some more responsibility uh I want to get paid some more Mone I need to earn some of the Mone and um he he said no no and I said look I respect you but if not I'm going to take your job right he said you think you can take my job I said I know I can take your job right I'm better SES you just s that yeah and he said you you're welcome to have a try so I want a contract and uh I tell you I've told this anote before but it was a great story so I had a gig at The Institute of bable Engineers who I would provide all the wine weight to Silver weight to Su chefs you name it and I became qualified in all of those areas um in a very short period of time so I'm 18 now and we had to provide wine waiters to what four nights a week and on the day of itself the inaugural event um four uh three people didn't Turner right and I'm thinking it's you know we down to about half now what am I going to do so I'm following all my Unity friends my brother's already working for me he's actually he was under 15 at the time couple of his friends all my union mates and I I've got 250 in the bank that's my total n worth um and at the time I thought I was quite Rich by the way because I'd save that so I went to a shop like g2000 but even you know very low level and I bought three waste Coates three black pants three white shirts three bow ties and I'm I'm I'm still thinking I'm going to be able to get through to somebody anyway it's not happening I going to the pub for a pine thinking game over force him to gun then I'm there and I'm looking at these three South after guys and I sponsored them before and I said hey guys how much do you want an hour I said you know what I've got a gig for you paying 680 an hour they were getting paid £450 cash in hand tonight but you have to leave right now so what do you mean I say you he you was he's an idiot right turn to F4 we leave now they said right now I said right now we're going to go to a so we left I'm going down the stairs right by bangman in London filling out at Health decoration for so I said this is white wine red wine or M this is how you serve even though they working a bar and if anyone asks you've been working for me for 6 months right and we rocked up we delivered no problem um and uh and then but I didn't even know what hassle me but that was Hassle and hassle hassle is I think it's the difference and especially know like Singapore has been kind to us um but here as a foreigner when you first come here you're an only one yes so you can't call in faor no one's speaking of fun for you so you have to build a network and hustle so I you know speak I literally imagined all of that as it was it was it was brilliant actually has you realiz that like a scene from a movie I mean I'm going a lot better stories but half them I can't they're you know more the n21 rated so I you have well then talk about so the next pong of your journey right after that what happened um so it's interesting so uh I I think I figured out life on my own after that you quickly do adversity your R teacher and my friend is import thank for that so for anyone that thinks that they cannot you can so you have to just have like your really solid group of friends and your faith in yourself your God whoever is you believe in a god scrape if you don't just yourself um so funny enough uh I was at Cel when uh Netflix came along this is June 2016 how did it come up so I I tell my father had just passed away oh no and as you I'm super close to him I mean I say am because I still see him in my Dre so I I think he's still around he's my dor yeah F uh F 2016 he had a stroke he's uh second or third and and that's what took him away PR 2016 and ali uh I was having a really great ride at SEL so good that they even said you can go back to India look after him for as long as you want to but come back wow do not go back back but I was like hey if he becomes uh disabled or paralyzed I need to be there to take care of him so I had started looking around for jobs Etc but then he passed so my mom and my sister said just go back like you have a life which you have rebuilt and you know you have this tiny studio apartment 300 Square ft which is like part St F just enough for your tequila and sty and then like literally my best friend uh five when turned 40 and I dug up pictures of her 30th birthday in that apartment wow so that's how long back right um so I come back and I'm obviously back at work and everything's F and love it I love that job I love that company love the team at a big team meeting that day I get a call and I've just downloaded the app because Netflix had gone Global in Jan of 2016 right and G Global means like we used to say the X CEO we turn the switch on but not all services were be so it's it was still pretty jacku so I downloaded the app and somehow I couldn't figure it uh on my TV uh on on the red the the reden house TV so I used to watch it on my phone then they get this call and they're like uh Hey so we really like the work that you've been doing at singel on Partnerships and I was fairly active on needed it but I used to put out like whatever Partnerships events and stuff pm2 me stuff and that also was hustling by the way because we realized that I was uh responsible for ad revenues and I was the pre-sales team and they used to go with the sales team to pitch they used to say you are a lucky Cham you come with us and next so but you are the one getting the commission I don't the commission but like yeah Havey to help and then I go and say we don't have enough inventory we need to partner up with other uh Publishers uh other apps to sort of kind of buy the inventory so like TV channels Etc so you done that so that that's for Netflix I think found me my response and I still friends with uh the recruiter who called me in fact just met her a couple of months back I said is this Prime call patience I just downloaded the app like what two or 3 weeks back and you just like calling me because SC she's like yeah Mo not a PR C quite like your profile and we'd love to meet you it's a small office would you like to do like a virtual call your hiring manager who's my mentor now um would like to do a call with you I was like what and I still get gooseb was talking about because I'm thinking I've heard Netflix hires the best people right the creme and I'm like yeah I'm not bad what the hell right uh so I went through nine interviews only nine only nine uh in three months because obviously people are traveling and stuff and went to the first office our first office was at npsc uh and then I mean it's a small office but pretty impressive uh and then got hired as employee number 45 in Asia how I noticed is on the Xerox machine there was a number behind before my need so I giv away your age and he said the zerox machines oh sh so sorry I what iord it I'm from the z z so I I actually asked a colleag what was his number and she was 44 she said you are employee number 45 or 44 I was like oh that's that was for for the that's a poy right and it was insane like I can tell you if there is a defying a pivotal moment in my career it's that it's like the first 3 years I didn't know where I was living where I was eating which flight I was on which country I was on but I changed as it was well listen you're you're part of something you know is something and an astronomical level yeah and and you take your at Netflix so you know you're are the cats L see so Netflix is very well known at that point of Time in the West but in the East we had doors slammed on us in India where I will not name the CEO he said so you want us to send on marketing spend our money on marketing Netflix while all you bring to the table is your brand in the content understand at that point of time the brand in the content were not what they are today yeah but Netflix expectation was this is how we meet in the midle and he said you may P see I still remember what that felt like yeah but to have built the business from there and I was almost going to joking to say I'm going to cut my S anniversary King before I left in joh cazon but I'll tell you how it changed me Paul it taught me that maybe chaos is my spirit at so I'm actually a very organized person so I knew that I was going to come here today so I knew I have to run two errands in a so it's a bit shocking how much I planned but then I realized that creativity is often born out of chaos if you will CL everything out you don't leave any root for the irrationality and ethic is big on creativity big on irrational so there have been times when we have built the entire Canal taken it to the ru discussed it in the entirey one person has come in and said but I haven't thought of this and out goes the entire thing because creative Excellence the second thing I don't have thatx is something that we used to price or not if it's not excellent you are not the r however many tipes it takes what perfectly fine for me because that's exactly what they taught me in my broadcasting saying if the piece of content is [ __ ] you will rewrite the script yeah well that's that's the difference right they're very they clearly the thought process is organic but it's Cutting Edge I mean you what do you guys have done you know and then you a b you B to India yes so uh I was part of the there was certain two or three people that got that chance I put my hand out for it uh you were building theia business and I still joking he said um I will go but if you let me launch this specific show oh and why that specific show oh because it was insane it was an iconic show it was the first local original the Indian local original for Netflix in India and the second season was a g to dots and I said I will go but if you making the lead on that lach it's called sacred gapes season 2 and I launch sacred gapes season 2 with this incredible tea cannot ever take the credit for it so I was the lead tying manager of that oh my God I remember walking into the room on the day that the campaign launched on India's Independence Day launched I'm not kidding the app broke really the app because two people tried sing on so I when I start but listen that is a good way to announce yourself right yes correct but like you didn't expect that like you and I don't think any of us saw that and that of course we learned a lot of heart lessons that our D systems are to be more robust CU a lot of people complain about how they were not able to use like different forms of pays Etc but I think if you ask me the third and the most important lesson that Netflix taught me was to be I don't even mean that as a ret I have become very comfortable with discomfort mhm I I tell you why because the person that entered nef and the person that left were completely different when I entered Netflix I needed to know everything okay what's going to happen who am I going to meet Thea now I'm just like I got into a police Cab in B and my husband is like who is this you would be why is she get into a police cab I said yeah they're just going to give us here it's fine come they so I I know I I I obviously that was a frivolous example but to me I will do something like you said as we get older we need to be more structured yeah but I do think if some things can be structured it gives you the springboard to take really big risks yeah and I think that it is thanks to the ability to be very uncomfortable to have really uncomfortable conversations to take feedback that you never thought you could hear like I thought I wrote really well and I wrote and then my boss was and said please take this [ __ ] out and leave I all what was your reaction in the moment I cried really I was like he said just because you're done lature doesn't mean you write well but there is no matter there's no sub it is it's a different format right it's a different format so you learn a lot and I think the most fun part of the job like you said like uh like the reason I said I've seen it all is because a p of the job is as even even if you're part of the marketing you read the scripts yeah of future shows so that you can comment on the marketability so you are you you're putting your Bollywood hat on with this one been loving it right well that was a love and hate to be very honest with you I I think I could take Bollywood to a certain extent I loved the I love the the the spice of it not quite the bonics of it uh I I wish more professionalism he could be that oh really that's such a that's such a c but I think that that that ship has really saved did not you never say never you're not the road of a mom right they have at at at my age I think they're not Cy Grand moms like here grandpa so um I I got to read those scripts of brilliant directors got to see Raw Cuts of fils with still the GRE skill and you see the director in the background and know what a great f is going to me or it's long and to have the courage to go and have that fation and say it's not make it I know it's heartbreaking but it is what it and then when a small time director SC becomes a big hit and he congratulates like you congratulate him and he says I know it's because of my film but it's also because of the efforts you put to Market of course it's p of course I I've got a friend who is a filmmaker this is years ago in the late ' 880s and he actually would go to the cinema in the US and um he would make sure that the cinema was playing the volume at the right level the base was correct the lighting and this other just to make the it makes a difference the suspense of it all yeah do you know what I mean it's even if you if you think about like apple when when you open any Apple cor and you open the box they do it so that you know slowly yes yes copy yeah so I be frustrated Apple deserves this you don't do it your product is know it's apple right so then and then then you came back to I did I did Amazon call and they said hey we'd like you to come and get us set up this uh new function of partner marketing I love working with Partners now what what does that mean for that okay that's amazing okay so that's the third bucket of work that I think you about right so I did that in Netflix as well so what that basically means is where a lot of the tech businesses um actually uh pretty large percentage of our acquisition and growth comes through Partners Microsoft's been doing this forever at they call it Enterprise sales we call it partnership so uh you could potentially go at it alone or you could partner up with the lights of tempos devices at some point of time e-commerce sites Etc and ref each other's uh symbiotic uh strengths such as customer sets such as dicta such as trust in the market such as marketing chanels privar these four it can go on and on and of course budgets Etc to grow each other's market so just to give you a simple example going back to Netflix and I'll tell you why I'm seeing this when net Netflix uh came before uh Prim video came to this market right so the thinking was at that point of time data was currency TCO data was currency you and I probably stopped using SMS we started using a lot of whatspp right but how do you get people like you and me to use a lot of data to consume Nets do you see the do you see the manage manage made in heaven yes so that's where people like me go in and work with the likes of a SEL or a talcom cell or a globe in the Philippines to say hey we have a lot of synergy how do we Market each other's products and each other's services so that the likes of Paul and D see it and consume Netflix or Prime video on your data yeah and your are to Goa your Revenue per customer goes up that's one of the ways to look at but of course there are lots of uh long-term lifetime Val and Le speaking to your counterpart in those organizations uh we actually end up speaking to cross fing teams in those organizations so yes you're 100% right we speak to the marketing team they don't necessarily have a partner marketing team because Telos in general up de B so we do end up speaking to the marketing SL product marketing team we end up speaking to the partnership State my colleagues super smart people in business development we speak with them through them we speak to the business development te and at times we also speak to the TCH wow so Amazon's been incredible I I so while I'll tell you the I realize now it's almost my third year completion in July if I learned creative Excellence at Netflix I learned commercial excellence in amsa so interesting see you realize how like one is almost like one end of the business and the other is the other other end and the a beautiful Frankenstein monster can be made if you just put in a world put it all together so the ability to see it end to end saying that this is where the customer comes in This Is How They are going to buy and remember the journey is no longer ler exist hugely scribbled line that's become thanks to the internet and social media and whatnot but how are you going to stay the course with them through your partners and bring them home and make them stay and make money and not mty yeah that ging is what I learned here and the obsession that the company has with its customer is beautiful um I and the last thing I'd say is I don't think I ever looked at a customer Journey as much as we do at Amazon and I owe it all to Amazon could have even taught me like when you sign up to some and it's janky you dislike it but when it's smooth you never notice yeah do you ever recall how easy it was going to sign up to something but you will recall if it's not easy so that company is obsessed with making things easy which is why shopping on Amazon it's so easy watching stack on Prime video is so smooth downloading it on the go on your flight is so so smooth and so which parts of Amazon are you ever seen so I with the publisher scheme we are fortunate to get to work with pretty much uh all of the organizations oh you didn't like yeah so primarily right now it is the uh econ and the video businesses but as the other L of businesses make their presence SP Asia we will be the teams that will help them uh also be one of the channels that you help them what's interesting is the the use of f if you're using Amazon Prime Disney Netflix all a little bit different yes right and then there's it but I have to say uh cuz my Netflix is cuz they did it first that it's very fast it's very Dynamic but I watch more Amazon Prime in terms of the the the quality and also with a lot of old news on it if you have watched one show I you can watch on PRI video um it's this show called oncon okay um and it's it came on January and I just was browsing through and I just started watching it and it's about two cops in in la oh my God it's addicted I'm running into the first episode yeah oh my God I couldn't stop it and it's so stackable it's only 30 minutes but the funny thing with that I that I I realized I can't watch it I watched that lateer in the evening I couldn't stick Jack to I yes because it's exciting yeah it's very exciting I finished I you did straight through it straight maybe over two days but yeah it's so interesting so so talk to me a little bit about having worth these big names um having you know scel you know Netflix Amazon how's it shaped your cor process on digital marketing now you put it all together um I would say that I I open to change right like um because all of these companies are so Dynamic yeah they especially with three that you just mentioned right very open to Chach very quick to look outwards and say hey this is changing how how do we piver so if you ask me um in the last 13 odd years I have mainly done I want to say 70% digital marketing I still keep my uh pulse on the traditional marketing so we still do some bit about following some markets which are still wouldn't more traditional I think my Outlook is that as a digital marketeer you have to be super specialized in going to where the customer is especially because there is so much noise um I I'll go back to an example in India at some point of time when I was with Netflix India there were 40 OT Services flaming for your Kish oh as a digital marketer how do you start out that's question number one how many times and where do you bombard the that's that's question number three two question number three is Gart the G number four is do you should your ad become a story that can stop the scrolling and inspire a click so we think about that all the time I think about that all the time multi-dimensional though it's multi-dimensional and now let's BR the computation of the ey which like I am so overwhelmed by it like every day there is something new and I'm like I start today I'll start today I'll start today and I don't but if you ask me I can sum it up by say that it is I think there's a lot of mice and if you and I as people who uh are are in the marketing domain are getting super tired of the noise and see how complicated this just imagine how frustrating that the do so to cut through the noise I think the ability to know who when where and how much is too much is aable I think I think one of the challenges I with Amazon was uh I think you guys have cleaned out recently because I was watching a Chicago PD and it would have you know five episodes where they wouldn't play you I know you ever seen that no but it was like that and then I realized that things have changed so quickly we used we're expecting it's real time no glitches no anything and that is cuz I remember you know you and I old enough when it was VHS tapes so right and I remember and then you think about Netflix you go back to Blockbuster and how that so when you think about in the history of business there's Blockbuster that famously you know ran into that rip wall that ended the business Kodak by noo you f and and that's where you have to stand cusp of things um just share with me as a wom in business ENT entering these high perer compan you know especially you've got a big personality which I This Love Got Away what were the main challenges that you faced to to navigate that Journey uh I have to say most of the times uh I have been made to feel very wful uh and I say this carefully I said most of the time right um I I think that these companies are very very open and friendly to having more women play in this game uh because they recognize that both creativity and commerce need to play together and more and more women uh can bring that to the table right so I've been super fortunate in that however uh that's been 70 to 80% at the day it would be disag generous of me to tell you to not share with you that there have been 30% of the time where because of this very so-called brick personality I have quite literally been told and I'm not making this up by ex bosses um to dim my light quite literally those words we used saying that you perhaps intimidate others uh and maybe wanted to make down a little bit yeah and when I asked the others if it was true they said no that there's no such thing like why would you so that I have felt and I don't think that would have ever gotten to to a man and so I did Dim my life for exactly two days and I realize that it doesn't work for me SM good well the we first spoke in father one of the things I said to you is you know I know a lot of amazing women that um in their personal life are a very colorful Dynamic dress up and work they more daby and and I always ask why is that you know you're a beautiful woman you should lean into it uh you speak on that you know because I think for you you learn just to lean into everything um yes so I am shamelessly myself uh both both behaviorally and fashion wise I never been a fashion I would not lie so I I think I I I style my friends and I drive them crazy so I I comment on their clothes and like yesterday we were there for dinner and at a mall and they were like what do you want us to do come in C toward to a mall dinner like why you commenting on ours but um again being very fortunate to work in a place like Singapore and in companies like if you walked into Netflix you would see just some really good fashion so my colleagues at Amazon dress beautifully well right like they bring their full selves to work and I'm so inspired um I just don't know any other way to be yeah and I don't know I I think I'm too old and I would look like [ __ ] it's already part of my FR if I dressed any other way yeah um I feel happy when I'm being myself I was told uh back at Ina by one of my bosses ex bosses that I think you should dress down and work you're attracting the wrong kind of attention really I said well the only kind of attention I would like to attract is on the basis of the work that I do again for two days I dressed out I think I went into depression so yeah you can't you can't you got to be yourself you're you know yeah so let's talking a little bit about leadership you are recogniz as one of you know the premier leaders in developing the markting well you are but what have you learned from some of the great people that you've worked for in terms of leadership traes that you you try to develop now into your team also I want to talk about three traits um one is curiosity as we grow older and mature into the business we become less and less gous I've learned that the best way to stay sharp and agile even as you uh become a leader is to stop pretending that you let for sure so when people call me an expert I'm like oh God if only know how much I don't know you would you just take that back in like a second curiosity that's one of the one of the things um I think creativity I think I think there's a solution to every problem yeah it's just which angle you approach it from who you talk to what mindset you approach it with and if you can't solve it today sleep on it wake up tomorrow at 5: is also very what so I learned that from my amazing leers and uh sort of people that have have uh worked so and the third I think is you said this some of the best leaders I worked with they have put their people first they are so secure in who they are yeah because they know that they are are smart they are sharp and they have no they have nothing to fear from my progress by the way I see the exact opposite as more than I seen the first se but the first sect still remain and I tell him that to his space that you are still the best boss I've ever had that's wonderful you but it's you didn't feel kind enough to or fortunate enough to come up under someone like that you you know never than you for granted what what advice would you give to ladies that are coming into uh um look at the businesses that you've been in by in terms of because they're fastpaced their Dynamic um what advice would you give your professions I would say uh know your business Concepts really really well yes especially if you are in marketing to be the role of the marketer whether you're a head of marketing whether you aspire to be a CM or whether you want to thrive in middle management it has changed so vastly from from when even 5 years back PA the level of direct responsibility that the marketing function is expected to have towards Direct business results uh I didn't think that was the case you with f setting their by so today uh the conversations between a COO or the head of business and a CMO or a head of marketing are very very different there are conversations about Revenue about acquisition about roas about LTB about all of that so if you do not know those Concepts and you are only busy kind of running your campaigns and your ad spends and your ad efficiencies I think you're going to soon find out that that you've hit your video ceiling so I'd say ladies it's very important that you know those as well as you know your Creative Concepts as well as you know your channels as well as you know your noobs uh I I think and I and I and I like that I like that the marketing function is being directly responsible for business because only when you know can turn it around on on its head and say okay you're holding us responsible but what are the levers you are giving us to for us to provide the results that team so how much more investment in the business how much more betterment in the product how much more betterment in the CX those questions you cannot ask if you don't roll those well I think a lot of people maybe try vit things too much and don't do their foundational work you you you need to know I dig down um this is something I'm curious about so one of the challenges I think a lot of people have in particular women because if a woman is ambitious it's very difficult to say they're ambitious without potentially very firing yeah how do you balance being healthy ambitious um managing your emotional well-being right inside and out side of the office and being perceived as someone that is you know on the rise but without being deaded for it or without being you know held you know there's a lot of jealousy accordingly how do you find the way to balance it's not easy oh wow that's such aough question uh I don't know if I have the right answer for it um well let's let's break it down so like for example ambish right not everyone but a lot of for ambitious some people can say straight out okay this is what I want and they they unamed to do so but sometimes if you do that in the oranization it can backfire yeah so how would you demonstrate it in the right way in your mind um I actually I am ambitious um and however I do not disclose that uh to everyone yeah um I keep a lot of what I'm working on till it's ready to be presented to myself um and for the reasons that you share um at work I am very goals and results focused um I am also very focused on bringing the team along me to say that I do not enjoy success girl I'm not a ler at I I just don't enjoy it so to me um my teammate getting promoted is an okay to pop the shut pain right so um that to me is a for us for me progress is equal to ambition at work has that bluna in my face when I declared that I have gone to my ex-manager uh about five six years back and say I love what you do and how can I become you in the next one year and did that blow up in my face very badly will I do that again no because I don't my less will I say it differently perhaps let me phrase that I let Having learned the lesson I will say I love what you do what can I learn from you that helps me become a better P without say yeah because that made her very very secure yes and like you said the very secure breed is very red yeah she was unfortunately the the insecure being now I I I I'm not say I am completely secure but my motto in life as a needer is remained unnecessary yeah so like I use the word carefully but if I if you can do my work independent of me that means I train could for sure and if my teammate can become my successor amazing but does that doesn't mean I'm Bly secure no of course not as a human whe I have insecurities but if someone comes and tells me how can I become BL how don't I say that have you have you managed the emotional well-being of of trying to drive business because you know there's a lot of pressure and when you're in the leadership or something that's often overlooked for those that are not in leadership bres but you're assuming the responsibility if this goes tits up you know it's on you yeah right how do you manage that so to me it's just uh honestly being very honest and humble uh I think I am fortunate to work my immediate team that I work with me we keep each other pretty Balan they're very honest with each other like it's hasn't always been that way but I think we have worked on building a relationship that's pretty uh straightforward I like that I don't like the criticizing and I'm I'm very direct myself so I will tell him directly to your face with kindness yes but but I will tell you uh I think the other saying that they do not uh we take a lot of who we are at work work back home right so to have a support system at home now whether that's in the form of friends or your partner or whatever is your self carity is very important so to me believe it or not a way to blow off that stress is obviously like my partner is very very supportive like he is the Y right but another way for me to blow off that stress is to help other yeah so I feel very relieved when I do one of my Pro boning sessions and I'm like okay if out of those 12 people that came today if I helped even one yep in doing better at the interviewing that they are going to go to tomorrow or day after my job is at it is exactly that was what I just really is exactly I'm I'm curious about your your you know lifestyle outside the office like what do you do in terms of you know nutrition exercise CU cuz you you were on the road a lot right you travel a lot you were in Dubai last week what this week was it last week last week right so what do you do how do you keep that all in check you know I would say I can the I no forget yeah okay so you're right uh I I travel a lot so um I do I have at keast this year I have promised myself that I'll try and work out three days a week uh my trainer he's amazing he's based out of India uh I used to work out with him during the pandemic so it's all online but I don't know how he magically sings what I'm doing so he guides me and then I have this wicked obsession with SP okay yeah I love SP used to love that they closed the one now she went to but she was obsessed with it oh I can I tell her a very good Studio I go to but that's on River VY so I I try and go there once a week so I I I wish I could tell you I work out and me I told but it's only like three or four days just you could to just a bit of everything right keep it in Balan yeah well thanks to my extremely uh Health cous husband we eat mostly at home okay um and uh like it's a lot of H cooked food is usually pretty uh Hey so it's a lot of kind of salads and uh grilled stuff believe it or not we don't eat Indian food very much at all so it's a Indulgence it ever okay so food you know I love it my my mother-in-law shei she will always bring me some Cur but the thing is I'll put pound up fast and then need to sleep right after so yeah yeah and then I think I discovered during the pandemic and saved my life quite literally saying my life uh the power of meditation so it's just a very simple 21 million meditation I a that's a long time to it's guy head so there is someone's voice in your head and it's beautiful because it's not religious it's a mix of Christianity Hinduism something from the Quran and it basically uh praise for the well-being of the world so you bless the world and if a group of people are doing it then I mean imagine the amount of blessings comeing your way so it's very beautiful so I try and do that well talk talking by going back to the dream that you had of your father or you have of your father so the day my man passed away in uh in PR country was yeah and it was uh she was Jan be well but I had spoken with her i' come back and forth she lived in Ireland um and my dad had died many years ago so it was just her and I had a chat with her and I said you know you one get you get better I'll take to Japan you I was just trying to see cuz I was convinced you give better right in my own you know way and she said where are you going on your next adventure but she knows I I love t and um I said I think you made your own go I've always to go to molia she said you should and said I we had this long chat about it and U anyway so fast for a few B one two weeks later I'm back here in Singapore and I have to turn my phone from her because I was obsessed to be looking at it to see if something had happened because she wasn't work so I turn my fall off and uh I have a dream that I'm riding a black horse in molia next to two bike horses and they represented n that and a woke up and C sweat and I thought [ __ ] I think's pass away and within maybe a minute of waking up my wife gets up to go to the toilet and uh she gets a phone call on Alpha from my cousin and Island cuz so she so she passed away and uh I'm I'm not religious at all and so my wife and I went back to the funeral we came back I was back from Dan laugh and I said honey do do mine but I think I'm going to go to m b and and I've never been and uh so I CU I said want to come along man um oh cuz I was at I was at a metch right when hondai you about State and uh I said uh you know I want to find a way to ride with some wers that's so I met this amazing was Whisperer called Pui and uh i' I've ridden War before but only a trail wide like in the US a very small and I show him reveal what I wanted to do and he said you know in this broken English there's there's no way you need to do training for a couple of months I said what about a couple of hours we can do this and ask me your yeah I was saying so we did a bit of practice and I said you know I think I think we're ready to go uh anyway he had P me with a war called Milo which was a Mongolian Oro war and um he told me look he my Lo lies to go 100% 100% of the time you can't swallow down just take him towards uh the hillside go up the hill we finally slow down as he get tided so before you know it we go off I I I put a video clip of this we're gone and uh finish it up it was exhilarating but it was very scary because I did I did think about Christopher Reed falling off the walls and you're going you're going at break next speed right and I'm not an expert so fast for we do it and I said yes you know amazing and then I said N I want to follow one M's dream this green can I go topless and write div voice no saddle and he looked at me you can't you have to have a saddle boom boom B so I did it I still went topless we finished the horse ride and then afterwards I said cuz he he said he matched me with because of Milan so I said what is Milan and in his broken English he said he also C [ __ ] I love but it was it was such you know and poor poor Rises you know he he fell off this war so it was you know he was okay but it was things could go wrong but it was uh you know these things are very spiritual yeah very spiritual all right got a few more rapid fire questions so what's the most impactful marketing campaign that you've ever worked on the launch of season 2 of sacred G that is your that's your baby i y it what's the most surprising thing that you've learned about the entertainment industry wow uh most people I met are very very treat yeah and generous yeah my my son wants to be a filmmaker and um I'm putting him out there you know when he meanss his Oscar and he's only allowed to bring one person it's going to be his mom even if he's married I guarantee it's going to be his mother why to be to I don't know maybe if he's allowed I don't know but if he's only La one you know I'd imagine and I wouldn't be grudging that um B to be or B to C mark would do you thrive on more that's such a g or why you making me choose but you could say the same then right okay then both both bigest lesson that you learned from Netflix in the early days when you joined it cuz you were new to Industry uh B Le to be comfortable with this I love it it's true in all areas of life yeah gogin always talks about that okay what is the one thing that every marketer should truly know that what you're looking for your consumer or L know we just see to ask the right questions that's so true and sayfe I always say to my advise telling is not sing ask questions from your customer and they'll give you the answers we just don't ask enough questions we think we know we are also so smart yeah but like ask more questions 100% And your leadership style in free words not SAR words B oh cool how did you know H wow okay uh Curious creative and collaborate about free seat free SE as so in your illustrious career thus far what was the proudest moment you've had in your career tough one right because because it could have been could have been the early sham the phone call from Netflix from ril to choose one wow I have to choose one um I have to say I think the first time I saw myself on TV really the first time I saw myself National Television that felt what was that for uh that that was for uh a business segment for a news uh program and I was covering the opening of a big Auditorium uh big Sports Auditorium in Mumbai uh which is where the P play concert happened recently wow so that was the first ever news story done in that Auditorium and I did that story and I still remember doing it in onek and seeing it go live on National Television is a core memory like that amazing you know what's really weird is so my son um he was very shy back from the US I came a little bit he was an introvert and while my friend decided to put it into AC um you he help acting's brilant that's what I I said to any K you know acting using sports but the the thing about acting is it challenges you in a very unusual way you have to get up on stage especially if you do a bit of improv but the funny thing is that he's been in the in straight times a couple of times we've been on TV his sister Talia has been on TV this when I were younger Avana was in a be my 9-year-old Sho was on a big uh billboard in Paragon and my wife's always in newspaper a job I like and I got guys this is not common you know it's uh we're very blessed it's beautiful it's lovely but be my uh my God daughter's neighbors also T oh really wonderful my best friend's daughter wow so my daughter Talia a quick well Talia I chose that name partly because I'm a massive fan of Rocky and Talia sh was the actress of Avan um and and I fell in love with the name when I hear the name it's a beautiful name me means dun drop you was lovely okay personal life um who is your female role model and why pranka CH of course she just I mean I I didn't know her story because I was in the industry and therefore the Insiders have kind of told me what she went through well you see pictures of what part when she is younger yeah right she looks very different she persevered yeah and then who she is to be and uh the fact that she built that on absolutely nothing she self me I have a thing for self me you're know like you know yeah exactly we were we leate exactly so to me she is everything well there was a movie that she was in and it was quite funny so in the movie Her might been on Amazon if I wrong I'm wrong the recent one n so what happens is her partner dies yeah right her and it I she love again yes love again yes it's on yeah it's on right Le me on and I watched I was watching on myum big that crap me up was after years after her P dies her sister insist she goes on a date so she goes on a dating app then she goes on a dating app she goes I this gu's were not one of these idiots that he fanes himself comes in like t-shir this and the other and shouldn't this guy walks in and the guy acting the part was ni Jonas I thought and he was so white was so tiny and cheap do you know what I mean it it was brilliant um but why I admire her she's doing one her terms and she's here and she's in the US doing it exactly so look at how many things are against her but she plays it by her runes I cannot imagine the strength it takes yeah that's why I m I love that um what's one book or podcast or you know one of each that you've recently been listening to reading that has helped you the last and he amazing I'd love that you asked that uh one book that changed my view on wealth and TI is the albanac of Naval rabika I just I changed the way I think about money and it really helped me um did you did you by the way start interrupt you did you always have I still have a bad relationship with money because I grew up or now yes so I've always had this conflict like am I always going to lose it or you know I don't know AET that that book helped a lot and there was another book I'm sorry I forgot the name I spoke to my husband yesterday about it um I used to like you suffer from the scarcity mentality uh I and always be like oh it's going to go away that book has seven or eight practices which a lot of people will call wo uh that it made me do that change my attitude towards money so I finally am open to embracing the abundance myselfs so I believe now that I can have all the money in the world that I want yes I can have as much as I I don't nothing and no one will stand in the way but it took me all those years I started that practice in 2020 all that time for me to finally believe there now I believe it with AV Vengeance like I believe it you know funny is um I'm not been I always believed in myself but I've always been humble yeah and I I really never found a good boss and one of my dearest friends Neil was back in uh 2001 2002 I lost my job because it was 911 S for a tough time and um I ended up in the job and I was getting paid commission on and he said to me took me for a coffee in the public closet I remember he said you just need to find a boss that can truly see your skill set I was very young I was only like 22 and I said yeah I just haven't found it and then fast forward a couple of years later few years later um I was the head of sales for an organization so I ran southeast Asia and I asked the origional head how much cuz the CH there but how much do last field see suff a million less dollars I said wow you know this this was a long time ago I said I'd love to R do s great you know if make you're never going to get there and I said why and then he said well you just you're on the sales Ro you're great to open doors but you can't close doors and I said what ask cies are you trying to close the doors this complex service you know you're you're not here too well you told me um and aded me because I I was opening the doors but I have guys in there driving hustling right and he was checking out early every day and uh and then the last thing he said to me go but quite frankly I just don't see here so I went I went back and I stayed up all L and I wrote down my pros and cons and you know the thing is if you want to follow the past there all these conspirations but uh I reside you did and the next year I am more then the COO did oh my not that I like and it was just it was a you know and what I've learned is if you back yourself yeah right and you don't listen to those you just TR your B your always and you give it everything yeah you know to give it give it everything to the death that's all I always say no retreat no surrender I want to tell you about two podcasts that have obessed with please uh one is the hello 7 podcast uh with Rachel Rogers uh so she's a self Mar multi-millionaire and uh she in in the US she's a yeah she's a business coach for marginalized women I am just obsessed I'm listening to it all the time and I'm just like oh my God she's a Mi and then recently I discovered uh the gay uh with but with Alex hosi he is the Sor of acquisition. comom they help brick and MTAR businesses scale so they acquire and scale them love it I was just Blown Away about how he explains business Concepts and how as an entrepreneur there are four Concepts that you need to know and three more that is good to know but if you don't know this for don't go into obes and I'm just like getting nails down and I'm like oh my God this is so good okay give me more of it so these I think are but isn't it funny a lot of people I I speak to quite people and I know folk c a catch I me listen to them for years but B if you're going for a walk or a run I mean if you go for a walk and walking is underrated by right I'm me exactly I think because you low impact s to is it's bulling but you go for a walk you listen to a podcast you come back with this world of nage and you're you know invigorated it's just it's powerful there's not been way to S an hour a flight uh flights especially um and for ladies when we getting our meals done oh my God I am excuse me I got my toenails done this morning by my my 9-year-old she goes daddy this one come off for at least a month I said okay thanks hun she wanted to do my fingernails I said no I've go pocast I love you know say there that you have outsourced the work K house you me but it wasn't very relaxing for me cuz she said Daddy to still do this do that don't move was she's an expert she is an expert as I told you she's the CEO of this family um but actually one of the things I used to do uh when I was younger I used to help coach women that were rape victims you know self defense and martial arts and uh that was emotionally very traumatic right and I was very young T prob couldn't process it um but the interesting thing is I don't know how and maybe I think I learn this from my mother because my mother was very very in woman she's my female right my wife is my second wife um but when I meet people is very weird in particular with my ker k at least 90% of my female PR Ki PL cry in the first session it's really weird really yeah they tell me things and I listen and you know and it's I feel very privileged uh but it can be a little bit emotionally bending but because I find it you know I'm privileged by it but the other fun funny thing that I find really interesting is um I can sense if someone has had a lot of trauma in particular in their ched or I speak to somebody if they've had physical sexual uh most of us have been through some sort of met well as but at the same time I find it quite Ely and because you come you know like someone's you know uh so I used to have a personal training it was a dear friend of mine and one time he was going through a hard time I said hate to be horrible to you but this is My Sanctuary when I'm come to work out with you we can talk about it another time the evening or whatever but during this and and could because we become friends I said I'm here for war I'm here to push myself and this is me getting away from everything but you know we all have those different moments um if you could live in one city for the rest of your life I'll put you on the spot now my God if not Singapore if not Singapore uh right right now I'm currently obsessed with muai you love it yeah yeah but they say that come back in summer and then you change your mind so maybe but it's but it's like anyway you the thing about Singapore is it has everything it has everything thing yeah and and uh you know I love traveling so I just have to get out of it yeah every now and again but like the food the people Singapore is so close to Perfection that you know it's difficult to answer that it's it is tough yeah if you we your marketing what would you do oh my God I would be a stylist I would be you are a stylist and I don't get paid for it I get paid to sell people not yet not yet I would be uh probably still on TV um I or I would be absolutely useless and be a beacha one of those three KS you could do three of them in your future you know why not damn now you give me some ideas so give me guilty pleasure TV show let's be honest but watch that is uh because I know my wife watches loads of crap in this oh my god oh yeah yeah I watch a lot of crap as but uh the Bible okay on Netflix you love it um no it's ous what what is with those people there are you watching it squabbling like like oh my God you're so bad um the the really good show right now that I'm watching is on Apple TV uh which is the morning show I know I'm late to the part but just here in that world it's oh my God it's beautiful you get a PE behind me know what's going on correct and like I said I was on card on Prime video I'm going to watch um Unstoppable and the new Korean show that launched yesterday called Utopia so I'm actually quite a fan of career shows so I watched them on this SL because my husband like watch them to be you see see what I don't like about shows is if it's like over eight episodes like why like movies CU I think the movie you have to really think about how you're going to aride that if it's an hour after 2 hours there's so much Caren in development yes and why I fullback is long and hard if you have movie and it's centered around this one person who's iconic if you go back to our childhood you remember it but if it's dragged out over 8 10 12 so you get a lot more character development but you don't remember this one thing that happens correct you're so right at the morning show uh I'm trying to remember three three situations about Alex Nei that I really really like about her but she's a very difficult character to like because she goes through this Ark where she is so super selfish yeah and then she becomes a hopefully becomes a better person but then you are so right because I'm having if you ask me what those three moments I may not be able to recall them yeah look it's been an absolute pleasure I put a feeling on will do this again oh my God ABS you know disgust thank you so much you this is I've been on some podcasts but let's just say that this has been the most this is cared really oh you're s I'm sure you're uh you just have such a fascinating style to do this I'm learning right I'm still new at this so I guess I've been interviewing people for 30 years but as I said the format is different so but you make it sound like quite literally uh a chat in the living room it is it is right that's exactly but then you know how things get formal but it didn't so for that cheers thank you [Music]

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