#24 with Isaac Yeo: Reflecting on an Unforgettable Year: Behind the Scenes

hi guys today I had the pleasure of sitting down with Isaac yo who is my head of research at Westport Partners but most interestingly his new role as the videographer and the man behind the camera lens for our podcast uh we sat down we reviewed the year that we've done and we talked a little bit about the trials and tribulations that we faced in setting up quintessential questions it was an absolute pleasure and by the way we did so over a cigar just to celebrate and uh it was a great pleasure thanks Isaac appreciated the chat cheers Isaac mate what a journey it's been how you doing great I mean it's a sunny day today brother I've got a couple of cigars before we get started right because I want to celebrate today um I've got two of my favorites I've got uh a boliva which was the first really good cigar that I had and I kind of fell in love with it and the padas number four but I know you've had one of these right before we've had a couple of those may I like this for you yes get started so before we get started why don't you int introduce yourself and you know who you are and uh you know your role and what we've been doing yes so yeah I'm Isaac I'm The Man Behind the camera so operating everything most of the time not now uh but I'm also actually the head of research for West for partners so basically you know I'm the one that helps to get all the information you know reach out to people um so this my day job this a bit like a side hustle right this is your side hustle well what's brilliant about this is you new zero about podcasting and filming right and I'm just curious when we started this journey when did I first what's your memory of when I first mentioned this to you and and you know what was our initial discussion about this I think it was we started off with actually the career coaching videos quite upon time so we were doing the the videos for our website right um then eventually I think we kind of uh really started looking at a podcast you know we are brother ah thank you so much enjoy keep talking M so so yeah we we think really started really looking at a podcast at the start this year um I think we was like kind of you know let's do it ourselves right that we can do it the best we can uh we went out to buy things Buy cameras buy lights you know and then yeah I think that's when we started really looking at you know a podcast across the board um oh yeah it's been uh great journey right you know a lot ups and downs you know learning a knocks getting knocked of it along the way well the one thing I think you've recognize this and you can speak about this yourself but it's it's like one's ability to pick up a new skill that was was it a bit daunting to you or you just I know you roll with the punches but for for those that don't know like what were you thinking what was going on in your did you think what's Paul doing now this crazy guy yeah I think um it was very challenging right because power otherwise you don't want it to to spark I think it's it was very challenging right um at the start because you know knew nothing going in maybe had a bit of basic knowledge when it came down to cameras and like a bit of editing um from from the past right what I did but yeah I think overall wi it was quite daunting yeah um but yeah like you learn right the internet is a great place to to pick up things along the way yeah no it's amazing I think the only thing is sometimes you go down a rabbit hole and you can get a little bit lost with all the various pieces of information but I just want to tell you I think you've done a fantastic job right you've you've worked all this out you know we've got a three cameras set up we we toured we went to Hong Kong you know it be interesting where the journey takes us next year but thank you man I think you've done a tremendous job and um it's been a pleasure and it's just the beginning right I mean a good horse makes it easy as well right tell me when you find one right and uh but it's been a bit different and um yeah so it I'm very grateful to our guests um that were courageous enough to to say yes in the beginning um because it's not you know something that everyone's comfortable doing and they're really the the stars of the show so I know you you've compiled a list few so this is a reverse podcast you're doing some of the the questions right yeah get to be a bit uh you be on the passenger seat this time right versus the driver's seat uh but yeah I think it's it's good right because look back at our year you know see how things are so just going ask you you know a couple of questions you know and to see where it goes so let's start with at the beginning right in terms of the podcast you know what what is Spire you to start it you know how do you decide the format the team you know how do you go about it well how's it how's the Smoke by the way do you like the draw enjoy it mate enjoy that um quite late to the party right Joe Rogan who is always a big influence mainly because of mixed martial arts he really has paved the way but from a business perspective in terms of what we're doing I I didn't really think there was a forum and I thought you know as head hunters we kind of have remained a secret we're hidden and a lot of the candidates the individuals that we work with can't necessarily publicly acknowledge who we are um because they don't want their bosses to know that they're maybe in discussions with us and know us um so but it was linked to the career coaching business so my goal was really to evolve what we're doing on the career coaching side and by having a public forum where people can see look we actually have great relationships with some very interesting people that was the reason and it's also because I'm a really curious person I I want to speak to people like you know we we had a chat with Aman who's one of Singapore's top divorce attorneys um and you know what we have planned in the future so I want to speak to people from all walks of life um but in particular captains of industry and and what their career Journey has been so that that was it really yeah I mean it's it was I how do you I guess started with cating a list you know how how did you go about you know thinking about who do you want to reach out to or who do you want to speak to you know so in my mind I wanted to have a series so I wanted a CIO series a COO series a COO series a seite series and but when you look at it and you think about it the CIO the chief investment officer typically is one of the key three faces of any major organization ma major Bank um and they're very comfortable speaking on camera because they do it all the time on CNN Bloomberg or what have you so that that was really the starting point and then I thought about who were the people that had really interesting stories to share you know so like Gareth Nicholson shout out to Gareth he he was the first person that we actually recorded a podcast with I think he was the third that we released right um but you know his story of being a math teacher in South Africa to working in a bar to getting his start in in um Banking and you know been able to do a muscle up and yeah just just a great guy and so that that was it so I really started with that and then it was a case of well which organizations would allow individuals to speak because marcoms we can touch about upon that later sometimes are very selective you know and understandably so so that was it okay so I know I mean set podcast can be quite challenging right so what was the first few steps you took to set up the podcast and how do you structure the process you know from beginning to the end to eventually the launch you know how do you go about it well you you know my approach to everything is rational deductive logic right so I worked out okay very quickly I need to do research and find out what equipment we need where we're going to film and you were very focused on uh researching maybe using a podcast Studio but for in my mind when you did the maths of how much money you'd spend on that and like like like today if we're filming back we couldn't be doing this in a in a podcast Studio because we're in my home we can do it I've got a lovely home so the only thing was Logistics like you know this is in my living room says you know we're we're we're also Furniture removals people once once a week when we're doing the podcast right we many heads right so I started watching a lot of YouTube videos and I went down that rabbit hole and I worked out look I've got a budget in mind and of course it crept past the budget right it very very quickly cuz we had to buy an Apple Mac we had to buy three cameras uh multiple tripods lighting and you know before you know we've changed the equipment a little bit as we've gone along um and then that was it and then we did a couple of trial runs if you recall and the one that I did that um really made me think okay this this will work is when we did a very quick trial run with my son when you were recording it was late at night he just came home and we just had a chat and I thought you know what this this looks great let's go with this so so that was it we took out blank canvas worked it out and just said look this is the goal this is what I'm trying to accomplish and we want to go live in three weeks time and that's what we did we went hard yeah yeah it was it was quite a it was quite uh Rod Deo right at the beginning you know that was but what was your memory because when I said we're going to do this and this did you think it was an unrealistic time frame or yeah I think at the beginning it was you know um I thought it was going to be quite challenging um because you know essentially I think we bought cameras lights in two weeks one two weeks and then we were essentially just doing a a test run you know uh like another week after right so at the point time I was thinking oh are we prepared you know are we ready for it you know but I think the good thing about you being on the driver SE a lot of times right is that you know we just take a lip and we come learn along the way right um you know but you know the the thing that I've as an entrepreneur as a businessman as a sports person I've tried many different things and there's a saying that I live by which is how I do anything is how I do everything which basically means I'm all in and I'm going to really try and work on this and look the the only niggling doubt in the back of my mind was you know will this appeal to anyone what happens if you know everyone says no we've had a few rejections um but to believe in yourself and also at the back of my mind when I do everything I don't know if I've told you this I'm always thinking about my my kids my wife and my parents are both deceased I always think if they were watching me they were like there was a hidden camera on the wall and they were watching me would they be proud and I I kind of want to show my kids that where there's a will there's a way and try and just crack on and you know being in front of the public eye doing this was something that I think both of you this is the first time for you but it's like you know bit of trepidation but forget that all in yeah I think that's very interesting because um maybe also because of I'm m going to be the one behind the camera right I was a lot more confident in terms of that it would appeal to to to a public right have a sorry to tr have a bit of yeah let me just re like it I think the the problem is you got to keep puffing so the the thing that I learned yeah you got to keep puffing all all blow out so for those that uh are cigar fishos and I'm certainly not one but I'm a fan um when Isaac and I go on any trip you know we were in Hong Kong recently we will always try to find a cigar lounge and you know enjoy the evening it could be with an alcoholic beverage or just a cup of tea or for you a glass of Coke for me a Coke Zero cuz I'm getting old I'm putting on a bit of weight right but um yeah as you were saying go interesting enough I think you actually got me um on cigars right uh I think before our first trip to Hong Kong um I wasn't really into it obviously uh I smoked uh before but I think sea as well you know hookah uh but I think cigar I already picked it up you know from you actually along the way uh but just kind of come back to it by by the way sorry to interrupt you the one thing I would say to uh a lot of people that don't enjoy a cigar it's the process it's it's like me cutting the cigar for you and lighting it for you and you know just it's a commitment of time right so if I'm with a uh a good friend of mine client candidate it's it's kind of changes everything and again you don't have to be having a whiskey or a glass of wine it could just be a a cup of tea but you just relax and you just mellow and you just think okay this cigar is going to last 45 minutes we're just going to chill we're going to enjoy it do you know what I mean by the way my wife's going to kill me for smoking and do later but um as long as you're you know they saying right you know beg forgiveness later um okay so I mean what are some of the challenges you face you know when starting the podcast you know both technically creatively you know and what what do you how do you go about overcoming them well the thing is I had to put a lot of faith and trust in you on the technology side because you're behind the camera and you know it was completely new to you but I have faith in you right and you're you're very brilliant you're able to do things so you know apart from having the three camera setup we've now got the slider and you know like I introduced that because I saw a discussion with Arnold swartzenegger was aigar Fado and I noticed the camera had a very very subtle movement and I don't know if the camera is on a slide it's very very subtle but I thought it shows a little bit of a dimension and our setup's unique because we've got my lovely Garden in the background the only challenges you know is the lighting and um the the thing is a lot of people have said to me I I'll give you advice along the way or talk about the lighting um which which is great and I love getting people's advice but you know this is something I learned a long time ago ago you you can learn from people that have been there and done it there are a lot of naysayers that that haven't done things and will give you a lot of advice are couch advice so you know when you watch a UFC event or a boxing event you'll have guys there eating their crisps never throwing a punch in their life talking about how to do it yeah you can't listen to those guys yeah so the challenge really was just just saying right we're going to do it and execute you know me is like once I made the decision let's go let's go let's roll with it we don't we didn't really talk about challenges right know I think the challenges is more so along the way right but you know it's just you you you meet the punches as it goes right and then you you deal with it um and eventually you know step by step it just gets better and better but what what do you think I mean technically in terms of the setup what have been the the most difficult things for you I think it's really pinpointing down the process you know and then kind of fine tuning fine tuning it along the way um you you you work very organically yeah right and that's great you're like an artist but the problem is you know I always say to you we need a standard operating procedure cuz you're going to forget to do something like we'll forget to do the introduction we'll forget to do the pictures we'll forget something yeah you know so yeah I think for me aot more challenging to kind of pinpoint you know and then come up a process you know and just kind of follow but I think once I got into a groove right you know things became a lot more easier there's a lot more about you know things that happened along the way right I like well when you came to join me you know you joined me as a researcher you became head of research you run that function fantastically well um but I I guess you didn't expect this videographer podcaster you know Global head of removals of furniture yeah definitely not but yeah I mean I I I love the experience it was great right because you know it's another skill you can pick up and you know how how many people in the world can really say you know they film podcast before with some of the you know glob CEOs or the global hits across the world yeah it's it's really a very rare yeah uh opportunity um okay um let's talk about having a Clear Vision um did did you have a clear vision of the Direction Where We you know you know what annoys me a couple of people have asked me even even my wife had asked me you know what have you even thought about what you want from this and what have you and people have actually asked me you know are you making money are you monetizing this you can't monetize something on day one right you you have to you know for me it was the Curiosity the challenge to see if if we can do it and we've already got some traffic whereby you know corporate clients have seen this and reached out to some candids have seen us so in itself it's been interesting but also I'm hoping that we're giving some visibility to our guests as I said all along they're the stars of the show um so the vision was clear and I'll share with you what it is and it will continue to be my goal is to put out an episode a week it's a bit challenging because sometimes guests cancel or we had a you know we had a power outage or what have you um but if we can do that and let's just say if we if we're releasing 50 to in next year that's that's a given we've got day jobs right and there's a lot of work that goes behind pre and post- production um the other thing is I want to speak to people from different walks of life so I've got a whole segment in my mind on Fitness because I'm a fitness fanatic pardon the cigars um you know from doctors nutritionists sleep doctors I want to do that and then things that really interest me you know entrepreneurs in particular being one myself you know I have such an appreciation for people that have gone and created and built something you know so I want to speak to um top restaurants we can go and see how they set up um so so yeah there's there is a Clear Vision yeah I think um we I really started to see the the impact has had right perhaps in the last two to three months right think yeah I think um I was talking to to one the professionals investment professionals today um and I mentioned the podcast we did with gal Nicholson yeah she she used to be from bangal Singapore right um B to oh yeah watch that you know and you realize oh okay you know you you realiz okay that's really quite an impact You' have had you know on the industry and across the board right yeah it's it really is interesting so it's a it's a it's a collaboration and and what I've always tried to Advocate at work it's a it's a collaboration like we have placed quite a few people with just connecting friends where we can't charge for those places ments right and um I just find I've always like I was in Hong Kong recently as you know you were with me and I arranged quite a few meetings where they I was just connecting people there's no money there's no placements it's just I'm trying to help people out and uh I believe in karma and in the end good things will come from it and I'm hoping this is the same from this you know yeah I mean you were mentioning right that you know this is not our day job you know is kind of a bit of a side hustle you know on side you know something that we want to drive and pushup how how do we balance it you know between the technical aspects know editing so so I'm not one I'm not someone who thinks of things as side hustle because this is all inextricably linked to my business our business right so the executive Search side the career coaching the podcast they're all inextricably linked and of course there'll be times where whispering to people that are not related to our industry um but I actually think you know think about this if you are a well-to-do individual who is married you at some point you may unfortunately have to deal with a divorce attorney you're going to have to see the doctor right you might need to speak to an architect if you've amassed enough money you want to develop a property so it's just curiosity you know you know me I'm interested in so many different things so that that my challenge is there too many different things totally the same right yeah just so I I don't see it as a side hustle um but your question was about balance and yeah how do we come balance you know our day job and then you know the technical aspect the creative aspect of it you know how how do we how do you track I don't know when you find out let me know it's been a lot of evenings and weekends let's let's be fair right and you have been putting some serious grafting I really appreciate that and um but as you know as we're building the team now we're hiring someone else that's going to help us do this who's helping with the the production today and um that's what we look to do and grow so my my goal is is to build build it to the point where it's self- automated all I have to do is turn up but where there's a lot of time involved it's dealing with the pre- and post production reaching out engaging the marketing Communications teams sometimes guests want things to be edited pulling together the questions cuz cuz that that's something you want to talk about things they're comfortable with and that that that is a unique experience but what I tell you is doing it's improving my knowledge massively and it's improving my memory and like I said to you there are parts that you can go back and you can literally if if I I think anyone listening wants to develop their career especially in in in the scope of private banking you could go back and take 10 points nearly from any of the senior people we've spoken to and build it into your approach to business there's so many different things to learn um and that's been fascinating for me you know and it also gives it's different from when we're interviewing candidates on a daily basis because that way you've got a narrative you've got an end goal you're presenting your client you're qualifying your screening so even though I've been doing that for 30 years this is a completely different format so I've learned so Neil Bullock is one of my best friends who runs uh barasa Distillery he shared with me afterwards when he listened to our podcast which was the second one that we released it was on the same day as Gareth he said that he felt I interrupted him too much um and he gave me an example of Eddie Hearn who's a boxing promoter a podcast that he did and you know he was spot on and I listened to it and I I thought you know what you're right so what I've been preemptively telling guest is it's not like a regular conversation when we're having a coffee when you talk I'll listen and I'll try not to interrupt you too much of course if we're going off on a tangent and we're digressing I'll I'll pull the conversation back and that's what where the guests are brilliant they they allow me to kind of govern the conversation and and ask questions and direct the traffic yeah yeah I think you you mentioned a bit about this right um earlier on about you know the process of like like fighting high-profile guests or or you know Ming maging myoms you know how how do you coordinate you know all this like the scheduling everything how how do you go about it well there's a there's a knack in getting meetings and securing meetings if you leave it too open-ended people can't do it right and I look ahead and I said look can you do Friday morning 8:30 a.m. Friday is a better day than Monday cuz Monday people are going to get they're walking into things and you know there's always a fire to fight so there's that um but it's it's just like there any time management and planning right but I let everyone know what the time frame is so we just released a fantastic podcast with Eric Marin and um I spoke to Simone who's the head of marcoms at ubp and I said look is it possible that we get everything signed off today CU ideally I want to release the podcast on Wednesday and she was brilliant and it was great and actually the turnaround time for that was it was very two three days right right so and then you know we've the unusual one is when we've worked with people that we've never met or spoken to before other than maybe once so Fabiana fideli an amazing woman um reached out to her she was gracious enough even to take the phone call which which was brilliant right and we had a a first discussion via video call and her and her team Dina absolutely lovely human beings and then because it's in my home and I'm saying well look you know the recording stud is in my home coming to a strange person's house for the first time so I said please feel free to bring your head of marcons um so that was interesting and then a pivotal one for me was John Dykes yes because I've been a fan of John Dykes and anyone that loves football especially in Asia will know John di they may not know his name because he was always the face off Foxx ESPN until he ran his own show um but I think you were there when I called him and I said to him John I can I can squeeze you in Thursday this week or Friday cuz we had two legitimately we had two slots right and I thought the timing would be great and he he was again gracious enough and he turned up and look how much we learned from him yeah right he he was just world class watching John was just a treat for me and there was a part where he recorded the intro he suggested and I was sat back there and you were filming it and I just thought this is just brilliant just absolutely brilliant and such a nice human being uh with a wonderful backstory and um that's been the thing but I can tell you the podcast I'm looking forward to the most that we will put out this year is have a guess who's the guest of all the guests that we've recorded or about to record who's the person your son my son yes my my beautiful son my firstborn so you know he is 17 he turns 18 at the end of this month yesterday was his last day doing IB and it's been a tumultuous Journey um but I I really want to do it and documented just you know he he and I might be the only people in his mother that listened to it but I I really want to have that conversation with him and I think it'll be interesting CU When we did that quick 20 minute mess around what I noticed was he was asking questions off the cuff and he was brilliant he was on point he was on point and he was asking me questions about me about us and the family that I realized that he he didn't know and I thought oh it's an interesting he didn't know that right so that I'm really really really looking forward to and look if people do watch it the interesting thing about that will be what is you know our journey like as a family unit father to son you know Big Brother to sisters and his relationship with his mom and what's the future ahead because great things lie ahead for that young man he's a brilliant young man yeah I think that'll be interesting right I mean how many parents get to have a sit down with their with their children right is a lot more of an eye opening yeah uh kind of more relaxed format and you dedicate time as well right kind like a cigar right you kind of sit down you dedicate time to ask questions you know and just get to know each other right um on a better level um but what what some I guess the um specific moments that really stood out for you what the memorable ones um there your head is year so when I've sat down with you know friends that I've known for over 20 years like Neil B bulock and will probo recently in Hong Kong that was so much fun because also they live in different countries and and they brought back memories from when we first met all good yeah really know these are I'm a long-term person as you know and most of my relationships be at work or friendships they they they have lasted a long time and I I hope forever and I still do business with these guys to this day and um I just they had their own journey and you know both as entrepreneurs and the funny thing is they know each other they knew each other and I didn't know they knew each other for for years which is really B Hors um so those stood out and then also you know the the the people that I've worked with for a long time the fact that even agreed to do this like as I said Eric Marin last last week worked with him for 20 years so I felt it was just I was very privileged to sit down with these guys yeah I mean I guess yeah this is you know I mean youve known them for many years but not a allot times you get to sit down with them in such an open setting right you know across the board yeah yeah I know what what some of the common themes or I guess surprising insights you've learned you know along the way well they're probably not surprising to me but maybe to the people that haven't met these individuals or know them Beyond just work but the the truth is and this is the this is the whole Genesis of this podcast is to find out about people's Journeys what they did beforehand right you know Dominique jurus such an interesting guy very competitive man um in the best way runs a hell of a lot um traveled around the world extremely articulate and his journey from Investment Banking to private banking to his entrepreneurial Journey the Fat's married to a Mongolian lady and we've been to Mongolia you know so when you peel back the layers and the thing is you know this as on the recruitment side when you speak to people sometimes people are a little bit guarded they they won't share everything with you especially at the beginning of your relationship um so this this was different because you're going into the heart of it there's no agenda right it's just to share their story and um that that's been so refreshing and rewarding yeah I think one some things have been quite surprised right is that for some of the guest I realized oh you've only met them once you know before that or not even at all even all like Steve I I I was convinced I'd met Steve Bry before yeah and he told me we'd only spoken on the phone twice before three times before and I it's maybe because I see him on TV and stuff all the time right he's so well known so I thought like yeah I've known him forever um but again I'm just very blessed that the these guys were so relaxed and talk to me about all this stuff I mean okay so um let's I guess dive a bit more into you know how how do you prepare first episode what's what's your process behind I mean I've seen it perhaps you can share you know in terms of what people don't know you what exactly is your process preparing for so I try I try to remind myself of their Journey because if if you obviously most of the individual we talking to have been working for 20 to 30 years so I will remember the second half of their career easily but the beginning or may not obviously I'll write down the questions but I don't want to get so fixated on on going back to that but what I typically do is I get up you're going to laugh but I I I try and get my brain into Alpha Zone where I uh work out in the morning so this morning I worked out at half five um and then I take a walk with my list of questions and the person's profile or LinkedIn or whatever they sent me and then I just try to memorize things in the flow right when I say in the flow what I mean is in a certain order yeah right so like any great story you have a beginning middle and end and I I try to to to go along that route um and and make it as natural as as possible I'm I'm still learning I'm still learning yeah I mean yeah I think you kind of mention it right that you kind of you can't remember like the second half of the careers but I don't really remember maybe not too much about the first half um where they started you know where they again um I don't know what was the most surprising you know guest response or or story they've heard so far well because I know most of these guys nothing was massively surprising um but what I was I mean I well one that St stood out was Mustafa so Mustafa and I have known each other for a long time he's an amazing human being but he was kind enough and kind enough to share what he and his wife had been through in terms of miscarriage and um you know and he was okay to share that part of him which which so that that surprised me a lot of the time people don't want to go into anything that's too too serious when I spoke to John Dykes about his relationship with his dad and I spoke about my dad I I don't know I was almost you know on the verge of crying so I managed to hold off so that was but nothing nothing that's massively shocking yeah and anything that was too shocking there were one or two we had to take out so one or two with Aman who's who's a great friend of mine divorce attorney and um it wasn't her mistakes but it was mine I think we had to do like 20 edits where I was laughing too much or too many jokes right yeah I mean they would never see the the live of the day right in the public eyes hopefully not unless you eyes um the bloopers yeah okay so I mean I guess who for people that want to start their own podcast you what some of the key lessons they have learned along the week what some of the key advice they could give like everything that you hear about starting a new Venture start just are you know like we we've done it we we spent a little bit of money not too much but you you don't have to have this you could do it with a phone you don't have to have a three camera set up just start grab a buddy start you know one of the things I've been trying to Advocate with my children is um always Endeavor to do new things so my son back in the day shout out to Kaden Quinn he had a he has a YouTube channel called King Kaden 26 and we talked about dinner last night he's going to start doing because he's been so focused on work studying he's going to go again and start releasing some videos and he had a lot of views so he did a lot lot of Lego lot of stop motion he did a review like for example on some boxing gloves that Bo him that got quite a few thousand views and um you know he's an aspiring filmmaker so I think you know social media is a unique platform really to to get out there and um so I would just say get going man pick it up just just rock and roll have fun with it kill has really a passion for it you know at the end of the day and well he filmed he filmed you know he filmed all of our initial branding footage you know he was the director behind having you know I think there were what eight of us that were in the 40s 50s and he was very calmly directing them and what I really admired was you know he knows who Clint Ewood is but he probably hasn't he's not a fan of him like I am and I've seen a documentary where you see Clint Eastwood behind the cameras of director and how he Direct Direct and he's very calm he's very stoic he just guides the actors so the way that I observe Kaden he just let us roll and did you know what I did I created a storyboard and I said this is where I want to film in this office setting in the home um what do you think we talked about it and I said it's with you I leave it with you and he didn't even blink he just took it on and and uh I think that's that's the thing when you believe in someone they believe in themselves and in the journey the process you might have to Ash that out shortly just yeah beautiful yeah what else bro hit me up man I mean it's been an exciting Journey right but you know well what what if I said to you next year what are the three guests in Singapore right guest or type of guest I don't want to put you too much on the spot that you would like us to do a podcast with I think that we could do one of Education I think that's very closely linked to our and I think it's a a close place of my heart right um when you say education what do you mean so I mean I think we could you know interview a professor you know that's one option or even maybe a school teacher like a principal you know we going to do one with my wife yeah that's your wife right yeah um I think education you know is is is part of the journey as it is always and I think that's one um I think also you know music you know I think ver the music as well we can get artist down that hey that's a great AR there um so yeah you know maybe a local artist maybe International I can see the glint in your eye yeah um but yeah I think that will be very interesting as well um and then maybe it's you know the last one I think it'll be more exciting to get more entrepreneurs involved you know reach out maybe to local business owners oh yeah yeah and that be amazing you know where they go because I I I think you know there are so many successful business people out there that even learn from look there are loads of podcasts out there um but my goal is to make this the best that we can be and really roll with it yeah mate but it's uh man what else have you got man hit me up hit me up brother uh yeah I I me what do you think is the impact it has on a more personable level hey I just I want to have fun with it I didn't you know me I didn't really think about this too much it was just like let's roll have fun it's a New Journey I've tried many different things in my life in my career um but I I think whenever you do something that's new you you learn from it you learn from your wins your losses hopefully you get better over time but I just don't overthink things too much I I do know that a lot of people have hesitation uh because like I told you a lot of the banks in particular the marcoms teams unfortunately won't sign off on this um maybe if we are phenomenally successful right if we we're at Joe Rogan's level I'm sure they would say yes and you know my wife won't be touching upon this but you know the the possibility that his podcast changed the election it had an influence on it right so but M just enjoy it relax it the only real pain in the backside is moving the furniture back that's it but what like like so so okay then if I said to you do you do you see us traveling with this we're taking on the road and where where to next other than Hong Kong yeah I think um what we did Hong Kong has proven that we can do it well tell tell the tell the team about the logistics of what cuz we we had to buy a few different lights and you know we learned but sh share your experience on that um yeah I think it for for h yeah it was definitely very different because you know we have a weight limit first and foremost secondly um you know we kind Crain by the environment and thatly you know um in terms of of the equipment that we can bring yeah that there was you know three big things right uh but I think as it was with the start the podcast you know we can't roll the punches you know um kind of went through it to see how it went out and then when we were on side right I think ultimately prep is everything uh preparation is everything um you know i' I've learned some funny Small Things From The Experience so because Mo most Linings of suitcases are black yeah and everything the cables are black the metal bars of so one of two things I thought we didn't bring when we came home and I was unpacking everything properly I realized oh we did it was St it was lost in the in the suitcase yeah small items right and you know we rented a hotel suite which in the pictures looked a hell of a lot bigger than in reality we moved all the furniture out and then we had issues like Shadows the lighting and then the echo cuz it was an enclosed room yeah right so that that was interesting so okay top three places that think we should go to now don't don't say Vegas right because that's just for fun but the top three business locations we should be going to to record podcast next year is um New York New York yes New York already from New York right um then uh I was thinking London okay yeah and then Dubai so Dubai is listen Dubai 100% mate 100% And um and we can do like an interesting one like like on the boat you know kind of think'll be you know the interesting challeng you you real logistical issues there bouncing up and down and maybe some outtake things I don't know going to do on the boat yeah but that that was I think you know I I want to take this a little bit forward because I want to speak to athletes you know I'd love to do at some point later on this is this going to evolve it but I want to do a workout with different types of athletes and uh um you know give me an incentive to get back into you know worldclass shape and and what have you give us a challenge so that stuff would be interesting so those are I would say Dubai unequivocally yes I I would say that New York and London it's an interesting one but why did you not say Switzerland we do do private banking I mean yes uh but let's be real right in the same time though a lot of places are headquartered in Switzerland uh um they they will always have London or or New York presence you know um at the end of the day even the biggest private banks in the world right yeah um you'll just say New York CU you want to go there for a nice steak and a holiday isn't it be honest with me mate be honest of it uh but yeah I mean I have been to New York before um either ways but yeah I think it it's it's a financial giant right you know Wall Street you know I think that would be really exciting yeah we were going to do New York I definitely go back to Westport which is where I lived and nam I named the company after Westport such a the best time of my life was when I lived in Westport because um I was working crazy hours mainly Asian hours I'd work every night 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. till maybe 2:00 or 3:00 a.m. in the morning get up take the two kids at the time we ended up having our daughter was born there so we would I would take the kids to school select them I'd spend a little bit of time with my wife the thing that I loved was cuz she was studying for a PhD but we would watch an episode of Law and Order every day because we we we work so hard right she's a workaholic yeah I wouldn't say I'm a workaholic but I work phenomenally hard as you know and I just got to spend time with her away from everything everything that we knew we made some amazing friends our neighbors oh I met the most wonderful people there and um you know it's it's headquarters alongside with grenwich Connecticut for a lot of the hedge funds right and as I was saying earlier if you watch Martha Stewart's P not podcast Show on Netflix she lived there Michael Douglas was from you know one of my all-time favorite actors you know Westport Paul Newman um God Rest his soul but yeah so okay man let's rock and roll brother let's let's do that um so what else what else are you what are you hoping for like do you think 52 next year is is too much 52 podcasters yeah no I think in fact we we have too little time right but do you think we we'll get it done I think absolutely I mean I think anything this year that shown right is that you know we we can get it done um and if we put our mind to it and the effort TOS it right uh we can get it done you know I I have personally a list of probably 50 people but but 20 in particular that I would love to do podcasts with that I know will not be allowed Toc there there are certain I can't name them necessarily because they work for companies that may not allow them to do it which is a real shame some of these people are are clients uh former candidates and and certainly friends that I would love to and and uh a dear friend of mine who if he's listening to this actually had suggested that we do a cigar uh round and when I was in Hong Kong we were going to film at berties yeah and um we will do that and unfortunately the the guest wasn't able to make it last minute but that would be nice and um just enjoy enjoy this whole experience are you enjoying that definitely yeah which do you prefer I mean or can you tell I sure like this is a bit lighter right yeah compared to I think I'm not really a full boded person did you buy you bought this one for me for my birthday I think last year yeah was have uh where where was my birthday present this year oh [ __ ] you know you don't love me anymore hey you know I love you I what the hell man I mean I meant to cover the the Mongolia thing right that we went to but then you you assistant that you pay uh for it right but yeah I think in any case let me look at it again say that again what Mongolian thing you um the Mongolian Musical that we to watch right oh yes initially when you first well tell the guys about that because there was a story behind that and then who I was trying to get on the podcast which unfortunately didn't happen yeah so yeah I think I mean Mongolia is is relatively dear to our hearts uh we did our first offsite you know official offsite together um Mongolia last year um it was a very interesting trip across the board um I fell off a horse uh I say that intentionally but no but you were okay I was I was worried about you at first because you know that that happened very quickly yeah uh yeah I think it it was like a gut show gut call right it's better to fall the hor than being draged like another fight with us um along the way right well you just just out of curiousity yeah you know when cuz cuz I've ridden horses but you know on a trail ride not at a Gallup yeah same yeah same right and when I told you what I wanted to do and I told um what was the name of the gentleman uh Pui Pui an amazing man human an amazing human being did you when I said I'm going to go this fast and do this did you think he's bananas cuz the the weird thing is when I tell people I tell my wife or my kids with my parents and they everyone just yeah you'll do it but it was like I was worried because it was like I hadn't done anything like that before and you know I was thinking about Christoph F falling off his horse and all these things but you didn't did you cuz the you were there what did you think I don't know I don't know why you know I don't really think you know that's crazy you know unless you're telling me okay uh you do something that purposefully threatens your life you know then then I start thinking things are crazy you know you know the one thing in our journey together you know when you first started to work with me yeah I've always encouraged you w with with with all my colleagues to try to do new things cuz I said to you you know I did a a 10day solo biking trip motorbike trip in in Vietnam north to south and you were single at the time and I said look yeah why don't you self-discovery get on a plane and I said the good thing with Vietnam it's affordable yeah the the timing was right in terms of the weather and um you know and I just said I think you should just go for a week or something a few days and uh but you crammed too much into it yes I crammed too much what was your takea away from that trip I would okay so I think I would absolutely recommend someone or anyone to do a a solo trip was that your first solo trip yeah that that was my first solo trip I always travel with friends with families you know um and it's it's very interesting cuz I think first and foremost you're entirely responsible for yourself um so like you know if anything happens to you right you kind have to deal with it but I think more so right you know if you go out you meet people uh very interesting I don't know if I told you um but I met actually a Korean and a Japanese um in in in Dan at one of the bars uh and end you never told me yeah I never told you uh and it was very interesting because you know we just sat down I saw two Asian people that didn't look Vietnamese uh drinking about we sat down we had a chat um the Japanese guy was actually a factory inspector and he was really young he was like 24 26 and he was in Vietnam to to do inspections of the factories and then the uh Korean guy actually uh was a business owner so he also you know uh already kind of sort out his business the Silicon Valley you know yeah so it was very interesting so he was Tak break in dang yeah and one the b in dang so you flow into Hanoi Hanoi and then I flew from Hanoi to uh Danang and then from Danang I to flew to Hing yeah you cram some too much because in a short period of time that that motorbik ride because I I went I was in Hanoi and I was meant to do the how gang Loop yeah and then there was a typhoon up north and I couldn't do it so then I I went to halong Bay came back went down to nimin and all the way to dang and um it was it was a fantastic trip and uh I always get homesick cuz I miss tar and the kid but you know when you're on your own and you and and let me tell you I did several things on that trip that most people even my friends I never really talk about my trips with people but um that may not know this I read three books which which is quite a lot because I was on the road on average 68 hours a day so but I devoured three books and I wrote six chapters of a book that I'm I'm going to release at some point you know under a pseudonym because there are too many things in there that I can't talk about a b name right you know on it what what books do you read though um what were the books do you remember yeah The Art of War um but it was a it was a modern day twist version from a business perspective yeah um I read Greg Savage's book on recruitment one of his books on recruitment um which was an interesting read and the third one was a Malcolm Gladwell book you know so it was it it it was interesting just and you know me I I read I read two or three books at the same time what I mean by that is I'll read a few chapters you know I'll go off to do something I'll come back and I'll read a few chapters of something else cuz it's just they all different things and I've just find that helps me with my memory yeah cuz I cuz you know me when I read I actually write a lot of notes and I'm dyslexic so I'm a slow reader so I was why I was so impressed was that 10 days that I read I was blown away that I couldn't even do in the old days I couldn't even read one book you know in in in a twoe period I think I think people don't really talk about this much right um but actually reading is a skill you know you kind of you can get better at it you can um actually right so a lot of people are quite daunted about you know think books right but in reality you know if it starts small you're consistent with it you know um you can actually learn to read right you know you know um I realized this started with the Mongolia part and we have to come back to the musical cuz we've digressed but uh my wife is a voracious reader I don't know if she reads five times faster than me it could be that or more it and imagine if you had that skill and you can read fast and comprehensively you understand things but where we were going with this was you love musicals yes and I I love theater but not not so much musicals so when I was in London last November um the Mongolian crew were there doing the play and but it was 3 3 and 1 half hours long and there's no way that you I could give up an evening with with then the kids wouldn't sit through it and actually I'm glad we didn't take the kids because it was a little bit Wy in places so we went and on opening night and I had reached out to Ron who's the lead actor um he he's one of the 350 people that follow me on Instagram by the way the other two50 of my kids friends um but uh and I'm a huge fan of his and mark the cascos who's an amazing martial artist um that that you know Ron's a working actor and he was meant to do the podcast and I was very disappointed we didn't get a chance to always right there's always next time but know he's great and and i f i i i really fell in love with the TV show Marco Polo which Netflix put on it was I think their first production I think they lost money on it because they spent so much money on on on the show there were two series and an offshoot of it and um you know I'm I'm a fan of History so I always you know was fascinated by what Jenis KH had accomplished and what have you so we went and we watched that so it was a it was a full circle moment for us right going to watch that play and getting dressed up yeah I mean when when they talk about genis KH right you know they say that his DNA is probably in I don't know how much perc of the population apparently 1/8 of the planet are a descendant of jengas K crazy crazy absolutely so so the other thing that I was going to say you know working with with me um and working with you what I always try to encourage you to do is to find out what where your skills lie above and beyond because a lot of people get pigeon hold right and and you know so Mark Dennis who's our head of Hong Kong you know he is a fantastic account manager yeah right and we you know my Kush my ex business partner um he also was a great account manager what I've realized is there's different types of business people in sales great account managers those that are great at developing business but they like the hunt they move on to the next one there are people that are better at the execution side um but I think if if you're in a relatively small type of business in what we do where it's not too complex you should ideally have a window into each different element from the origination which I have to say is the most challenging part because to get the work in the first place is not easy the clients the CEOs the heads of HR they have to want to work with you they have to feel that you can deliver um you then have the execution which is closing a deal um unless you're from a very big company I think one and three person that does that it's the same right it's the consultant and then you have the research portion and the research portion the portion that you oversee it's the least glamorous but without which we couldn't deliver right so you have to map the market and speak to people um but I'm hoping you observing you know because you you have to sit down with such senior people and have such Frank honest discussions there's no way improve you as the head of research what do you think no I I think in if if if I was in in a big company and even then even like a boutique firm right a smaller firm you know there there won't be that kind of opportunity to really do and it's it's very interesting because I think um it's not just what they have experienced but also how they present you know what they have experienced you know is I think a lot of things comes out to framing you know how how would you frame a certain phrase um you know someone can say something one way and then say it the other way you know and it becomes very different you know across the board um I think one of the ones that they free St on me was for example Dominic jurus one where he was talking about you know there are tree Lakes you know and it's still right you know as recruiters we kind of understand that you know we we definitely you know get answer that you always change one at one point time what in the industry or you change you know your seniority and then the third one you probably know move one at one point time you look make a move um that was a very app a very good analogy everything well Dominic was a funny one cuz I called him and he said I'm I'm traveling tomorrow night I said you know me I'm very specific I said what time's your flight he said it's just after midnight I said no problem bring your best saval R suit and uh Rock up tomorrow and lunchtime and we we'll blasted out yeah and he said no problem okay you know um hopefully you've learned from that hopefully you've learned Having the courage to ask people invite people for coffees dinners drinks it it it's very meaningful it's very powerful and um look people I always say to you most people in sales are afraid of the no so firstly if someone doesn't reply to you it doesn't really feel like a no right and I was telling my son you know like you you're going to ask many women out probably even though he's a good-looking young lad right but you'll learn real realize very quickly not everyone's going to say yes timing it's all those different things so I think Having the courage to ask people and of course you have to be persuasive a little bit yeah um and you show them the merits of doing these things um I'm the other thing I'm interested is like your journey working with me you know what are the key things that you feel that you've learned in terms of how to become a better professional you know allrounder I think so it's a lot right because we've been together for what two years now I've been working with you for about two years now um coming out to my second year anniversary mate it feels a lot longer in a good way because we spend so much time together yeah um uh I think some of the key things right you know first and foremost you know is is you know how how to really present yourself you know you have to have an image you know um that you want to engage with I think um because I used to work a lot in the tech side of the business you know on the recruitment side right you know Tech you know startups you know they tend of a lot more laidback uh way to doing things but I realiz that okay if you're professional train through you know um how you carry yourself you know that is one very big thing yeah um I think aside from that you know it's also how you engage with people um what can you learn in terms of you know making a connection you know day because yeah we we talk about sales a lot um across the board right but ultimately right I think sales is a lot about you know building a connection you know how how fast can you get to the connection um at the end of the day right you know that that would really help you a lot so yeah I think some of the key things I learned along the way I know what you think you know uh well if you don't mind me sharing this story you can always edit it if you if you want to cut it out but um you know the first week that you joined um or the first two weeks I I I bought you two suits yeah you know if you want to edit it let me know but just because I thought it'd be a nice gift and I did that for my very first employee I bought him a suit um I didn't actually tell my business partner about it I paid for it out of my own pocket and what I thought with you is cuz what I've realized is a lot of people younger in their Journey who are just starting to make money it's a big investment and they won't necessarily see it and um you know when I first came to Singapore when I had an interview the lady suggested I wear cufflinks I didn't know what cuffing shirts were I didn't know I went to Mars and spener and bought cuffing shirts and I could never buy shirts off the cuff sorry off the off the leg because I'm you know I'm short you know a little bit stocky used to be quite muscular you don't mind me sharing that I bought you two suits in in the beginning of of your I think first two weeks and I bought you uh a beautiful blue suit of the Peg and actually fit you better than the the the you know better than the one that I got tailored for you but Al also the thing is I feel that you can never be too overdressed because it shows you can take your suit jacket off it shows that you make an effort yeah right and um you know Co has changed the way that people dress yeah right I I remember in back in 2001 when I first came here very few people wore suit jackets now it's become a bit more of a thing um but I I just love it and and that's the one thing I miss about living in a colder climate where you get to you know wear a a suit all the time getting to wear an Overcoat you know jackets and so and so forth that's interesting you found that cuz I the other thing I was going to say I think in order to get to know someone well you have to share a part of yourself yes and open the door not everyone's comfortable to share with them will share with you one of the things that I've learned over time maybe because I'm an old soul maybe because I I learned this from my mom is how you can really engage somebody in conversation but if you're interested in them it's obvious if it's genuine or not and if you're interested in them they'll be interested in you and they're more likely to share yeah you know and the last thing talk about sales and NOS is I always say this to people I I teach you and I teach the team to bring those forward because too too often people are afraid to say no it's not real so if you bring no the no forward you either find out what the issue is and you resolve it and quickly and early or you move on to the next thing and that's okay right but I always tell you I never want you or the team to think transactionally about people because when we speak to somebody they may not be relevant for that particular role we're working on but this person is a potential future C potential future client potential career coaching client um potential referral Network agent someone that's going to help us you know meet more people and what I always say more important than all of that was the last one a friend a friend yes because I believe in that I believe that a rising tide raises All Ships and I always just try and help people yeah and in the end it comes back yeah you know what else mate yeah just a comment on that right you know I think um Co was a very interesting impact right because I think we really started I think there probably like a bunch of professionals that were kind of preo and then postco right um after Co you know people started you know dressing down a bit more um people started be a bit more relaxed in the office but interesting now can see uturn right wherever start is going back to the office and everything um day um but yeah I mean I kind think you're kind of talking about about it right um when it comes down to sales you know earlier um how do you think like sales is something that you would have it's an art or do you think it's like a science or how how would you think you you great question yeah it's 100% an amalgamation of Art and sales sorry Art and Science because you can be an artist but if you don't have a process which you can follow up or have distribution or speaking to enough people it's never going to happen but it starts with with uh your ability to engage and speak with people and you want to go grab that so I think it's a combination of both can you learn it unequivocally you can learn it you have to learn it so what's what staggers me is in the 30 years that I've been in Recruitment and the 17 and a half years that I've been covering private banking um it's rare that people read sales books I think you want to you want to Ash that let's it real quick very rarely do people just really think about that because look if you're a school principal you want to make sure that you have an abundance of of students you have to sell to their parents yeah if you're a principal you're having to sell your ideas maybe to change the curriculum to the to the board yeah um you if you're married or have a girlfriend you better sell to to the misses if if if you want to have a good life right you you you everything you want to do so I'm an massive advocate in becoming a fantastic sales practitioner I can't stress that enough I've read over 100 books in sales and you take the essence of it um what you know we often see things that we don't like you know learn from that as well I call it the art of selling without selling because the reality is when you get past the initial stage then you're talking common sense you're sharing things with people you're actually talking about problems and issues and addressing them not hiding them and then obviously getting the person to sign on the dotted line or whatever that close means um but not to shy away from it and what I realize people don't you know I teach my guys to record themselves look at themselves in the mirror uh practice scripts um and and I always say you know typically in sales you have an objection most people have learned the rebuttal but if you anticipate what the objection potentially is going to be you can uh address that before it becomes an issue in so doing you take away the objection just like you're doing your nodding now you get the person to say yes you know or agree and that's yes plan for and you then on the right track and then you have a good conversation with somebody you know yeah what are some of the M reads you feel like for for sales books do you have like a duration or do you have like a collection well if you look behind me there quite a few books um it has to be pleasure though if you're doing it just because you you're doing it because your boss tells you or you're doing it because you you you know you you got to be passionate so I I would always start with number one learn your industry whatever you're in right learn your industry and read any Publications that have come out about your industry um one two I would say unequivocally in in our industry you need to read executive Search related books recruit books there aren't that many of them and then sales books right I'd put that in the same category generic sales and then thirdly I think you should learn from the best of the best of people um in business in sports in music whatever it is that you enjoy and learn from them you know reading biographies autobiographies you know if the amount of autobiographies that i' I've read be it Michael Dell Richard Branson the list goes on Jack Mah really interesting reads you learn a little bit uh from um their early years in particular and how they've struggled and how they overcame those challenges um and you can always learn I I I placed a CFO once who has been in his job for 13 or 14 years same bank and I remember I had asked him to read an annual report uh or two annual reports on that bank and he hadn't read them yet and I had learned that from reading a book that James khah had WR and he had sold his business for reportedly recruitment business for over100 million and he set up Hamilton Bradshaw and um he was building his own team his private Equity team and um you know so I can go to where and one of the skills that I've I've shared with you I can take any book off the the shelf and say tell me what page okay extract something from that page and make it relevant to the conversation and that's not easy to do um but you know it makes it interesting I think uh one interesting books you were reading recently was one about horses right and the tra of horses yeah do you want to share a bit about how that that came about so I stayed on this beautiful Ranch in Wyoming and I was privileged enough to take my two daughters my wife and my son unfortunately couldn't come with us and the gentleman there that owns the ranch he trains horses but he teaches people uh largely SE sweet individuals how to work with colleagues staff but also you learn a lot about parenting and the whole concept of that book is that you can't lie to a horse you can't pretend to be something else so you know they they bring a horse to a prison yard the horse will automatically know who's the kindest person and who's the scariest person yeah and you know you reveal a lot about yourself with a horse and the one thing that I learned in my limited time horse riding is Pui he paired me with a horse and he said I'm going to do so based on personality and he had his English was somewhat broken and uh at the end of it I Milo was the name of my horse he was a warrior Mongolian horse who I later found out likes to go 100% 100% of the time yes and pry just said look if he's getting tired and you can't slow him down just you know Point him towards a hill and he'll naturally slow down and after I finished you know doing that kamakazi ride and wanting to go topless on the Mongolian you know steps I said said to him what what what is Milo's personality like why did you pair me pair me with him and he said um Milo is also a quzy [ __ ] you know do you remember that yes that was like okay thanks very much yeah I love that this morning yeah but yeah it was um but that book that book really you know you can take so many lessons from how you interact with your your loved ones for me with my children to be calm to be patient let this horse tell you their Journey because it's like when you know I I adopted a dog he's obviously faced trauma right how do you deal with that and when I've taught martial arts and different things what you realize is people have had their own journey and and more often than not um having dealt with bullies you know most of us have dealt with bullies but the reality is most bullies were bullied yeah and you try to understand that a little bit and get past it so so many Lessons Learned I I'll I'll pin it in in the uh YouTube link brilliant but yeah I think that's that's interesting thing right uh better realize that you know sales is is really part of life in a sense right you know it's always in various aspects of it it's just that because um aras's kind of pigeon hold it into like a certain uh segmentation or skills that you know that you know it's a bit hard to see beyond um the the concept of it well look to to wrap up I just want to say Isa I'm really appreciative of everything that you you've done not just for the podcast in general but you've done a stellar job and and you know like when we make placements I I will always acknowledge you and the team and I'll always say look thanks cuz cuz Isaac found this individual did a tremendous job to do so and um I think these things are often unsaid so thanks for getting in front of the camera were you a bit worried about getting in front of the camera you quite relaxed about it uh I think a bit worried because I think why the camera highlights everything right hey highlights everything right your flaws you know everything that you do so yeah it's a bit nervous um also first time really done it right in a more professional setting I guess I want I want I want to build your brand I think it's so important that you create your own image you know I I the reason why I hired you and the reason why I hired people is the essence of who they are as an individual I don't want that to change obviously we've you know you have a uniform if you're a firefighter you have to wear that uniform you you've got to do the right things protocol but the person underneath that firefighting outfit doesn't change right it takes a lot of courage to do that and um you know I I'm looking forward to next year we're going to knock it out of the park definely you know I I want us to be the very best that we can be you know I'm competitive very competitive and um just enjoy the journey anything else you want to wrap up on no I think it's it's been a great year right across the bo very a very exciting year um a lot of things we learn a lot of things we seen along the way and yeah I'm excited for for next year as well um across yeah also think you know thanks to and kudos to you as well right because you know when we first started you know it you know we didn't know anything but in terms of where we at now right we've really just made so much progress right on this side so yeah excited for next year and yeah I'm very appreciative of you Isaac it's been a pleasure man I hope you enjoy the cigar yes me too Che brother cheers

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