#21 with Pia Cooke. From Farm To Finance: Lessons in Leadership & Growth

hi guys today I had the pleasure of sitting down with Pier cook the head of advisory solutions for standard charted bank for the global wealth management business it was an absolute pleasure she talked about her journey growing up in Australia on a farm to living and working abroad in London Sydney and of course here in Singapore it was an absolute pleasure and I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did Cheers Pia good morning hi Paul thanks for having me thanks for coming how are you I'm very well you may recall that two months ago we were going to sit down and do this yeah and it rained just like today and your house flooded yeah so well there was a power outage right and we were we were and we were gone for the whole day so when it was crashing down and raining this morning I thought oh pet what's what's going on you look you look Fant fantastic by the way well thank you you're looking pretty sharp yourself got a try rise for thanks for matching yeah had to do it so for the few audience members that might not know you can you be kind enough just to introduce who you are and what you're doing at the moment please sure uh my name is Pier I am working at standard charted as their head of advisory Solutions uh in global wealth management I'm an Australian although I've spent as many years outside of Australia as I have in I've been in Singapore for 16 years and I'm a mother of three fabulous kids I spend a lot of my weekends uh as taxi mom running around to all their sporting events and uh trying to fit in my own personal exercise is is a bit of a challenge but um yeah so that sums me up beautiful now I want to go back because I want to talk about your journey yeah we've got a lot in common but one thing I'm really interested is you grew up in a rural Farm area in Australia what was that like so I have to say that for many of your listeners it's probably quite a a unique um story I grew up in a very isolated area in Western Australia um the farm that we lived on uh is about 7 km wide wow so if you stand in the very middle of it you can rotate and not see a single person um the nearest town is about 40 maybe 35 km away the nearest city which is Perth is an hour and halfway so you know quite a different type of upbringing and what sort of farm was it the farm has sheep it has cattle when I grew up my dad was a we had a cattle stud which is where you have um you a professional um cattle breeder uh we have crops wheat um canola barley all the things that you know many of our Singaporean friends don't really um get the opportunity to to really go and be a part of and you I would imagine you had to mck in big time all the time so look these are a lot of the lessons that I learned growing up growing up my my dad used us as labor Free Labor yeah and we as a family spend a lot of time working on the farm with Dad it's a very seasonal occupation being a farmer um in summer we're harvesting so everybody has to have a job whether you're a truck driver whether you're on the Harvester whether you're out there on the Chaser bin which is that that truck that follows the Harvester around putting the Grain in so that you can go all all hours of the day you know you've got to make sure that the the doesn't stop and then the truck comes by and you can put the uh the the grain straight into it a lot of jobs so worked very hard um during winter you've got shearing the Sheep you've got to drench sheep it's just lots of things that happen on a farm were you were you good at shearing it's I've seen people do it's quite it's quite physical it's huge it's a very skillful it's a very skillful job and it's it's becoming um a very difficult profession to hire people because it's so physical and so hard and yet it's not exactly a highly paid I reckon I could do it cuz I I shave my head every day I have to say look at you Paul I'm sure you'd be able to do it but uh you know you're doing hundreds of this repetitive uh job a day it's not just like being a headdress it's you're wrestling with an animal who you know clearly doesn't really want to be did you have far Farm totable produce that you guys actually so it's really interesting well absolutely our freezer was filled with all our own meat and my mom was an aided Gardener our garden was filled with vegetables of all kinds of descriptions and the reality is is back 30 years ago living so far out of town we didn't get the opportunity to drive in to town and get all of our produce so we had to grow it on the farm amazing yeah very so again it's a hugely unique um journey to to be where I am today you know what was interesting um I did this LinkedIn post where it was my son and I carrying bricks and I bought some bricks um during covid and the reason why I did that was I grew up my dad was a builder and all the lessons that he inculcated in us 100% translate to what I do now um and the reason why I'm so grateful to work in an office is because even though I enjoyed working outside I did when it was cold raining or extremely hot and and you know I think you take those lessons and you don't take things for granted right I'm sure think it's really interesting I I actually am still very passionate about hard work and getting out there and doing physical work yeah I like nothing more than going back on our holidays to be on the farm jumping on a motorbike being involved in all the Sheep work it's it's a part of my DNA and even today I love going out on my weekends and doing things that involve DIY or or painting my deck like I did on the weekend so I appreciate the office environment but I don't feel that um that that I I would I would very happily have a a combination of both in my life still you know what you've got to check out you haven't Martha Stewart's uh documentary on Netflix it's really I haven't seen it it just came out and uh she used to live just down the road from where I used to live in westw Connecticut okay but but she grew up basically she was a she wanted to go into gardening and everything stemmed from her childhood you know and what her dad and her mom taught her so it's really great watch by the way yeah I I will watch it when I get some time when you get a free moment now toward to me how how did you come off the farm and what was your journey through school through to the world of banking wow so um I think it's really interesting to understand what the environment was like 30 plus years ago in in in Australia and and possibly even in your you know when you were growing up right I didn't understand the world as I understand it now I didn't know the kind of career choices that were available to me my world was very small it was a small community we farming was in our DNA so to ask how I then moved into um well how I went through my high school well our school only had a small number of students I had to travel on a bus every day for 35 minutes to get to the bus Which in Singapore Is Not Unusual either but that's a traffic thing yeah in in where I grew up that was a distance um problem for sure so our school we all most of us had to leave at the year of at year seven and move to a boarding school so at the age of 12 I went to boarding school in Perth and that's where I leared about the big wide world and got very involved in sport picked up every kind of sport that I I was able to uh sign myself up for what were your favorites and what what were you best at love Athletics really love in fact I was recently during the Paris Olympics I was in Europe oh so real time we were able to watch the uh the Olympics what were your favorite events then that you did so I was a runner I'm a sprinter you you look like you got those fast fo fibers uh I certainly don't do it today I don't have them today but yeah I was 10000 amazing I was I could also do middle distance but not I wasn't the best um I love Javelin which may surprise you you should have been a hep athlete no there were far too many um things I wasn't good at but no I I loved that so I was a a the beauty about being a border when you are um living away from home is that you are in this boarding house and there's this ability to sign yourself up for everything because it's not a struggle with our parents not being able to drop you off to anything I could go and participate in lots of things so every season I had signed up for everything that I could netball was a big part of my life growing up um played a bit of cricket might surprise you yeah um what else did I do never took up rowing that's something I think in hindsight I would have liked to do really but yeah so lots of things so that was that that took me through to my high school okay and uh went to an all girls school in Perth from there I decided to take a some time off because I I was an early graduate I graduated at the age of 16 wow which um mainly because I was a late birthday uh and so that to me meant oh I wasn't quite ready to go straight to University and be the youngest one who couldn't go out and get into bars and down be honest so I went and spent some time back on the farm okay earning when does the academic school start in Australia September or January no it's a January to December yeah so yeah have you read that book uh outliers by Malcolm Gladwell no I have not so it was really interesting because we were talking about our kids earlier so my son is born on November the 26th so he's like you yeah the youngest in the year and the challenge with that is if if you know because we will mature at different times anyway but if you're a little bit less mature you may be picked last for the sports team you're academically maybe 6 9 12 months behind a lot of the other students and it can have potentially very negative effect on you but it toughens you up either way right so I think especially with boys yeah boys have a tendency to mature later than girls so um I certainly it was a it was a part of our thinking process for our son who's also got a late birthday um and I know in Australia a lot of parents actually choose to hold their children back if they feel that there is going to be that kind of um so so sorry going back to you went back to the farm as you were saying back to the farm and uh so I worked for my dad for six months which was great we have a great relationship but um there's also a lot of tension when your young daughter comes back to the farm who wants to party and have lots the fun but also be part of the you know the family business and uh so we after 6 months decided it was probably a good idea if I go and work for someone else wow and if you speak to my brother he'll give you a lot more details around it I can imagine that conversation was came about um and so I went and worked you know this is something that people would definitely not know about me um I went and worked in a sharing team wow so you took stuff seriously I was a Rouser oh no so I was never a sh but I was a rouse which is someone who does all of the the the bits and pieces around um collecting the wool putting it into a wool Bor helping the wool classes who actually will assess the quality of the wool you're just a an a dog's body yeah um and it teaches you this incredible um value of hard work you work there from 7 in the morning until 6:00 at night Sun up till sun down you only stop for lunch and have a small break in between it's really physical yeah and that teaches you a lot of things about um hard work stamina not complaining um so I did that for a handful of months and that was a friend's business and uh we were working on lots of different Farms friends of PE Friends of the family farm so it was quite a was a nice um environment I got to the end of that year I'd saved up a lot of money um and uh was also working on um what we call the wheat bins which is uh a great main depository where all the farmers can bring in Grain the every year when they're harvesting that's another very hard job because you're out in the sun all day you're sampling the Grain and um and uh doing quality control so I saved up a lot of money and uh that then helped to put me through University um starting the following year okay and I I think it's really interesting this is where the journey really begins because I didn't have a lot of um I didn't have a lot of mentors in my life at that time who understood what career paths there were yeah didn't have that guidance yeah well Dad you know Dad was Dad is an incredibly intelligent man as was my mom we had you know they were amazing Role Models but they also didn't understand a lot about the kinds of career choices that we have at our Disposal today so I went to my career uh advisor back at my school and we were we were discussing about my my University choices I remember very clearly that she said to me what do you like and I said I like animals and I like sport yeah and she said well that's a no brainer you either go and be a vet yeah or you go and be a do Sport Science yeah wow a lot of the a lot of depth went into that discussion um and so I went and did some work experience at a vet and and decided at that juncture that that wasn't going to be really for me I still love animals today but I felt it it was um I didn't like the the distress that I sort of saw through that process and so hence I went and did a uh a human movement degree okay and uh I started that enjoyed it very science-based very much about learning more about the biology the human biology of you your makeup um but after a couple of years I decided that that wasn't really where I thought I would be able to make a career make money okay and I then changed and moved into Commerce and business and that's where I learned the value of you know Finance I understood what banking really was about I did a double degree in marketing and finance and interestingly I thought I would do the market because that really played to my creative strengths and that the finance would just be something that I would learn to invest my own money but I got to the end of that degree and loved the maths loved the banking piece did very very well uh and so that then chared my career into Banking and finance so interesting right because that's now when you know I'm sure you're you and your husband having these discussions amongst yourselves like how do we guide the kids and it's a it's an interesting one because I think most of us of Our Generation you know like I remember speaking to my mom and dad about what university I should go to and my decision was based on I lived in zone 5 in London I couldn't afford to go to Zone one so I had to choose I had to I had to be close to home because I had to stay at home for financial reasons and so I ended up going to a university that was in zone six because it was cheaper to go from 5 to 6 than from 5 to four and that was the extent of the conversation which is bananas when you look at it right yeah and I think today we get we have this ability to have much richer conversations with our children um and I feel so incredibly privileged to live in Singapore and have the the life that I do yeah um I've lived here for 16 years and it was the best decision that we ever made to to come here and we sit down with our children and we have open conversations about career choices about even choices at school about the subjects that they're choosing or the extra curricular activities that they're choosing um it's a much more involved um parenting style than than my parents had and that was mainly because they were really focused on hard work and trying to ensure that they made the money for us to have a a better future yeah it involves big time so you finished University yes what happens then right so I got a travel I I I got the travel bug and decided that I would move to London but I would do it in a fairly roundabout way it's a very common thing for Australians to finish University and go traveling yeah very large country Australia but small population and uh we all love to get out and see the world and I hadn't traveled I was not a traveler by that stage so at the age of 20 I went to London and there began my life in London where I had my eyes wide open learned a lot about um just living in a wonderful cultural Society having access to things that I would never have had growing up in Western Australia where were you staying in London when you first arrived which when I so I I had a cousin that lived in London and she still does to this day she lived in a very nice part of London and so I was very fortunate to live with her for a short period of time lovely and then I moved to Pimco just down the road from Buckingham Palace yes and then like every other good Australian I moved to Fulham and uh I lived lived in shared shared accommodation had a great time but also balanced starting my career and I worked for a um for the Bank of New York did you take time off and just chill or did you go straight into work no I I did travel a lot I went through America hopped in a car and drove up Highway number one oh wow and went all through California and then up to the Canadian border beautiful popped on a plane went to the other side of uh America saw New York Boston my aunt lives in Washington okay and uh spent some time with her so yeah traveled a fair bit and then got to Europe did a bit of Europe um but again I think for for any listeners that are not sure I just think you learn so much and you gain so much and then when you do go back to work you start work you're ready you've got perspective yeah I I see a lot of people and I'm sure you do too in our industry at this age who are starting to rethink their you get to a point where you don't burn out but you're reassessing the amount of effort and stress that you've put into your career yeah that's not me by the way I'm very happy with where I am but I see it a lot and I often think it's because people haven't had a break yeah I was really fortunate that I got to have that break before I started and I also have very much tried to keep balance within my life that's key and we can touch on that come that later so bank so Bank of New York yeah Bank of New York is great I mean it was a a low-level job it's my first job I was an accountant a trust accountant which um was great it taught me a lot about um Asset Management I was reconciling portfolios I was you know helping to book trades doing a whole bunch of work that uh was not something I was relatively familiar with so I learned a lot learned a lot about balance sheets about asset liability um and it was a great start but I very soon realized that I wasn't really destined to be an accountant and I wanted a little bit more um you know I was a fairly competitive individual I really wanted to what was still still I would imagine ask my kids that um I I coached my daughter's netball team you could ask my daughter if I'm competitive I can only but imagine I want to see you on the sidelines yeah prob maybe you don't it's not word so yes so uh was it so I worked there for a couple of years and then decided that I would move back to Australia okay and I moved to Sydney and Sydney is Australia's Financial Capital it's the place for you to really cut your teeth in the Australian banking industry and it was the year 2000 the Olympics was on an amazing time anyone who was in Australia during the Olympics would tell you that it was crazy it was a really exciting time so I'd moved there I got a job working for credit Swiss in the asset management department and again was as was a trust accountant okay I was leveraging off my strengths at the time and had lots of fun when I first arrived going through the Olympics and part of that assignment but then I I realized that I really needed to do something that was more um exciting okay no offense to any trust accountant no but so but what again I think that's important to to listen to your heart and know what you like on lean into who you are right make those decisions yeah and and you're never going to know yeah straight away what your what you're going to be good at you have to try lots of things and you have to take opportunities when they come along and this is where I was so lucky to get my break and I think we all can look back on our our career and think gee I was lucky then yes I was at credit swiss but I had started speaking to some head hunters and still I'm really Junior I've spent two and a half half years working and my CV got circulated and landed at City group and I was really lucky that out of the blue I got a call from an amazing team who said come and come and have a chat to us we've got an opening on the trading floor we need someone now that may not happen nowadays these are pretty big opportunities that used to sort of happen maybe 30 years ago where people would be given the opportunity with little experience to come and join uh a trading floor so I went in and met the team and they hired me amazing so I joined the equity derivatives team in city in their Investment Bank and that was wild that was really fun this is early 2000 still it's 2001 by this stage we were launching the very first ETF that Australia had ever seen amazing and I was part of that team I also sat on the Dub's desk so we were um you know this is where I learned about Equity derivatives became one of the sales Traders and helped to you know build out that business or be a part of that business and just incredible being on a trading floor well well the thing is um you know in the market it's well known that if you learn to cut your teeth in a band like City in particular it's great a great training ground so you had that plus a new a new focus in your job so all the Stars kind of aligned they did they did and I had a great great team that worked around me and some very strong mentors uh who taught me a lot about the importance of client relationships the importance of hard work discipline did did you seek your mentors or they naturally gravitated towards you and vice versa so when I was more Junior I I didn't seek mentors and I that is a message that I will be telling my children about where I will I will I wish I'd done more of it yeah as I've become older I've sought out mentors but Al often mentors will also just naturally yes happen because there has to be a relationship between you and your Mentor there has to be something that um is pretty special they have to care in the first place right exactly yeah um so when I was at City I I just became one of the pack and learned from a lot of Industry veterans who were around me who were amazing at what they did uh but I probably in hindsight didn't appreciate it as much as I should have and maybe that's one of the things I look back on and think I I should have embraced that even more yeah I was just thinking this is great this is fun this is a uh I got to travel a lot I was traveling all around Australia so so I really enjoyed that period um but in hindsight I probably should have stayed there longer you know one one thing I when I speak to people um it always I remember the very first time I met with you there was no agenda just I I invited you for a coffee and we had obviously mutual friends and I think there's something so meaningful in that because rarely will someone say no if you asked the right way and um I think that's the one message I have for a lot of people have those coffees those informational meetings and if you're lucky to come AC someone who can be a mentor yeah listen learn observe of course of course and it's Brave it's a brave thing to do to reach out to people and say you know are you willing to be someone who can mentor me yeah um and uh there's there's a bit of a legendary story that when I was at mcari and I guess we can get to that but I'll just we we had a a young grad that joined the team and he had a lot of uh lot of confidence and uh he went up to the head of the entire Division and asked if he could you know be mentored and we all laughed and said that was you know that was the craziest thing we'd ever heard but it actually worked incredibly well for him and he's now done really really well and and I think because so few people feel brave enough at a really junior level to do that yeah um you know that senior leader was quite you know chuffed by the fact that he got listen you you need again people have to have courage like you know like now I think maybe because I've never worked in a large bank and for me it was like well I'm young I'm 26 I'm 27 how do I get in the room of the CEO yeah to office and I remember when I was 27 28 um BMP Parable was one of my first big clients I had the I invited the CEO the COO the CIO the head of investment um all to my house for dinner with their wives and um and the thing I say to a lot of people is have you invited your boss for or around to your house even if you live in a one-bedroom apartment right that's fine they know how much you're getting paid but again that that's quite meaningful and Powerful right incredibly and uh and and quite a brave thing to do right because you're opening up whole side of your life that may be quite personal or private yeah so uh yeah so you just have to put away all the naughty toys so so you left City left City and um where did you go I I went traveling okay so this is this is my pre previous comment comment where I said I probably didn't appreciate my um opportunity that I had um I I had the opportunity to move to Germany for a little while wow and took that opportunity I didn't know that amaz yeah yeah yeah so I went and spent six months in uh in living uh in a little town called ringan um which is just out of dorf I German I uh had a great time then I came back and and that's when I decided it's time to become serious how how old were you at that stage roughly I was probably 24 by that young you still so young you are still young and I you I know you make decisions based on you know gutfield at the time and and I this was a great I still look back and I'm very pleased that I spent time in Germany and it was a an opportunity that wouldn't have come up under normal circumstances so I enjoyed that but when I arrived back in Australia that was when I decided time to get serious about life okay and and you went back to Sydney went back to Sydney I want to tell you a quick funny story about so Maurice Green won the 100 meters in in Sydney in the Olympics and um some idiot that didn't know who he was tried to steal his bag at the airport they tried to mug him they grabbed his bag ran off and of course you the fastest man in the world chasing you and he bu like a bulldog he didn't go so well he caught him you know caught him this is at the Sydney airport yeah wow so didn't hear yeah that was classic right but anyway so you're back to Sydney back in Sydney um okay this is becoming quite a long story which was not my intent but I then got a job at Deutsche Bank okay um under wonderful man called Dave sarcus who um moved to Hong Kong and lives in I think he's back in Sydney now and uh worked on their Equity dtive desk and again firsts we were really lucky to build out the first um barrier Equity derivative in C in Australia so barrier warrants um which is really exciting because we shot to number one we were the market leader very quickly and uh that was a great time spent a couple of years on that desk learning a lot more about how to trade and how to be a good sales person yes um can we touch upon that because because um sales in most Industries is a dirty word and I don't know why because at some point we all have to sell you know um what have you learned about sales over the years what are the key things you've learned to be you know a worldclass sales practitioner so i' I've been fortunate to never have to be one of the cold callers who are you know probably where you you feel is a bit of a bad rap um been really fortunate to work for good companies with great brand names so so being able to pick up a phone and and make a sales related call is a lot easier yeah but that only gets you in the door yes and then you need to rely on your relationship skills on your ability to have a great elevator pitch yeah and build trust and confidence that's that's a really important part well well you know your you can't say this about yourself but your reputation is Stellar right Integrity real character and I think those things will come they they come through and I think it takes years to build a reputation but that helps yeah and then obviously you have to deliver right yeah and I remember hopping um into the seat at deut um and being told here's your Client List okay get on that phone love it and it was a really phone based job right you are now so we we were sales Traders you are sitting there with your screens um you are executing everything that you sell so as markets are open you are on that phone you speaking to clients you're speaking to financial institutions who are professionals and they ask you to execute right then and there they're price sensitive they you know it's it's it's intense and high pressure but it comes with a lot of highs yeah and being a competitive Bunch when you're on a trading floor you are typically surrounded bych some out yeah a lot of really highly confident people yeah and so it becomes a you know every day it's about winners it's about who who's putting on the biggest deals um but at the same time making sure that your client relationship so strong right you're given this book you're being told that you're responsible for company X company y clients X clients Y and uh you know your job is to maintain that client book and grow it yeah and you've got someone at a bank just next door who's also been given that book so it's a really you know you're competing amongst yourselves on the floor but you're also competing with all the other uh relationships around the market yeah I think it's interesting cuz I've always felt that um you know cannibalism does happen in an organization but I've always felt if you work with a great group of people you you operate as a team yeah um and going back to that point about winning I've read a quote from usin Bolt referring to his coach because I'm sprinting was my first love and his coach Glenn Ms said um early on his career he told you've got to learn how to lose before you can learn how to win right because you have to embrace it you've got to learn from your losses you know you can't let those setbacks hit you you've got to you know take that information download it and and and build towards those victories course but that's not just sprinting or it's appc for everything 100% you know you speak to your kids nowadays and they they they themselves are competitive they're playing sport they want to win they lose you've got to you know teach them the the Val of loss and how to be a good loser there's nothing worse as a netball coach there's nothing worse to see bad losers when you're on your court well before we go on I just want to tell you this story about my son so he was in the Singapore national championships a couple of years ago and he sport boxing ah and um he lost in the semi-finals and um I don't think he should have lost because the referee didn't know what he was doing sorry are you a bad loser no not at all the referee's I think if you're going to be in it need to be proficient and I'm proficient and everything I do I make sure 100% And um that guy didn't know what he was doing and um that's okay so Kaden lost he cried outside a little cry and um but this is what I really really admired him for um he went back in to go and congratulate the fellow um but then he saw the this guy's family and they didn't recognize him at first cuz he wearing headgear and he went to congratulate all of them and then he said I'll I'll be cheering for Addie in the final and then he went up to the boy and he said look congratulations on the win and then he said but I want that rematch that's what he said and I said I love that I absolutely Lov that and I didn't I didn't ask him to do that he did it on his own but that shows such sportmanship the the strength and the courage to go and shake his hand to speak to the family I I love that but I love that little element of I'm still competitive and I know that I can I could you know that's that's what it's all about so I'm curious because um you know in private banking the majority of people in our industry are from private banking yeah and you made the switch you you move from the trading floor to private banking what was the Genesis how did that come about so so I'll I'll so from doer I then moved to mcari um I'll just finish that because that's actually part of the the story um when so mcari is the the best bank to work for in Australia right um it's it's the Pinnacle of your career to get a role at mcari and I to this day still have some amazing friends that I made there in order to work at mcari you have to go through an incredibly rigorous interview process and then when you get to the end of your interview process you need to do a psychometric test and that in itself is incredibly um uh intent and there's many many candidates that don't then pass that in order to get through the gate yes um what it means though is through this testing you are profiled and you get a personality profile and that's what they then look for in order to see whether you're going to be a good match for the team what that meant was that at mcari on the trading floor I spent 5 and a half years there there was a lot of alpha there was a lot of aype personalities and more than any other bank that I'd worked for that's where I leared the the I learned all about competition and I leared a lot about being tough cuz there were a lot of people there who were you know had been in the industry for a long time yeah and was sink or swim okay so I had a great time there and learned a lot of the skills that I now have put into practice today did it did it make you get even tougher you for sure my time at mcari was the best time that I've had in my career as far as excitement as far as being part of an incredibly strong franchise that believed in winning and believed in success um we would celebrate success it was really a very exciting period of my life love it but you burn out and and many of my old Trader friends will tell you that you know it was a was a stressful industry so we got to the end of 2007 and that's where the glob financial crisis was just starting to uh show you there were cracks that were you know emerging in the system we had an enormous derivatives book at the time and uh we were the number one player at mcari and so as we got into 2008 and we started to to become a little bit concerned about what was going on in the in the US markets um you know we we the business was was starting to realize that that we had too much risk on our books and then come the end of 2008 when you know we had LeMans we had be Sterns we had you know it was it was really really difficult um the business went into a tail spin and uh you know many many banks went through a similar experience but when you're in when you're in a derivatives business um when you know we are typically short beger in our books and volatility went through the roof the business went into a tail spin so we got to the end of the of 2008 and I myself personally was finding it really stressful how did you navigate that very turbulent time though you look back it was a really difficult time but I now look back and go wow what I learned a lot through that having to come in every day and speak to clients who are losing money who are desperate and there's just no Market you can't give them a market to sell something back or you can't provide any kind of Hedge for them it's a really it was it was very confronting and then as a bank we had to protect our franchise and we were having team meetings of what are we going to do to protect the business yeah um and so there were a lot of learnings through that but we came through that and then there was a big restructure in the bank and at the time my husband then got an opportunity to move to Singapore and we took it so you know you know that I find that so interesting because when you look back at that period and that those War rooms cuz I think you know there's a lot of agism in our business and I don't understand why cuz I think people are living for longer healthier um but I think if you're trying to engage a senior person who hasn't been through two or three recessions and difficult times you know you're you're missing a beat do you know what I mean um but so you so then the say so two two formative things in my memory from being being in a Investment Bank yes was September 11 okay absolutely forged in my brain when I was at city and what that felt like to come in and just see everybody we'd never seen anything like it yeah and then the global fin financial crisis again being being so close to the to the trading side and the risk that we had on our books and understanding the implications of that was was a really um fairly Monumental part of my learning so I go back to your point yes if people haven't seen these cycles and we've been lucky we've had a fantastic Market bull market for quite a long time now if you haven't experienced the the Downs it means that you may not really be prepared um and ready for for what to get so so Singapore so my husband got a job up here and we decided that we would move up here and 2009 was also a difficult time in Singapore in the banking industry yeah um like everywhere Banks laying people off were not hiring so I took a little while to get a job here and I was very lucky to get an opportunity at Barclay's in their private bank so I'd never thought to move into private banking it Investment Banking was my DNA it was something that I was very familiar with but I got the opportunity to go to Barclays and work on the Structured Products disk and use my derivative knowledge in that way um great bunch of people yeah very Dynamic business very Dynamic team of people right back then remember and I have a lot to be grateful for for the opportunities that I was given for the people that hired me for the risk that they took because I didn't have a private banking background I was an Australian who been in Singapore yeah so by the way don't you think there's something in that because I find that um unfortunately most hiring managers that I work with today in HR departments they want someone tried and tested being there done that and that's great of course it is but I always um our track record as a business in the last 17 and a half years just over 90% of the people we've ever placed are still working in the companies we place them I think that's amazing yeah and I think one of the key reasons is is because we found people that were stepping up into something slightly new different challenging and that caught them on the right trajectory and which means they're excited about the role they're not moving just for money or because there's a push factor well I also think that you can teach people skills and technical skills what you can't teach them is passion and um energy and and you know curiosity and the ability to inspire people these are things that if you are able to bring that to a role that that is so that's 90% of what you know leadership is you can then teach people other schools so bars I was there for quite a number of years and in fact that was a really formative time for me because that was where I had my three children so uh I was there between 2009 and 2016 very long period of time actually 17 uh seven years was it all in that in that the structured product Department yeah yeah so I learned all about sort of more of um private clients and what their needs and expectations are which is quite different to what an Institutional client would be yeah and uh really interesting because I went through we went through a takeover yeah Bank of Singapore purchased baray in at the end of 2015 or early 2016 at the time do you remember because BOS wasn't one of the uh the named acquirers it wasn't on the even short list I know and and it kind of came out of the blue in for for many people so it's really interesting being on being on the side of the you know being acquired yeah because you feel very vulnerable of course we you don't have the knowledge you don't have the facts you only have the rumors who is going to take us over who's going to be brought who's going to be taken with the bank yeah uh we knew that there is a lot of duplication between Barclays and any company that would acquire us particularly when you're in a products role and I think this is really interesting around wealth management in general when you're in a products role people have this tend to think that you you know you're possibly not as valuable as a Frontline as an RM yeah RMS come with this ability to bring in new money bring in new clients bring in this product people well you know these are skill sets that are relatively transferable and we can bring new people in so as being on the on the side of being acquired um we spent a period of about 6 months in in with a lot of uncertainty yeah and then when it was announced that bank of Singapore were taking us over we were quite surprised as you mentioned and then the beauty parade began and we were getting introduced through a series of management Senior Management um meetings to the BOS team and they were picking who they would want on their team interesting and uh I was lucky enough to be picked sounding like a sport analogy isn't it yeah no and so I moved to Bank of Singapore in November 2016 but you were one of the few people from my memory that were abs abbed into the investment products team cuz a lot of people on that side moved to the investment counseling team for example was a bit different construct right it was and um they I think all up about 30 of us went across so it was it was not everybody about half and that was where I moved into much bigger bank got much greater exposure to um to the different parts of the bank then I probably did at barlay were you put into a new role on day one when you were under the BOS umbrella yeah so I was lucky enough to work with Jean who I know you are great friends with and to this day she's a wonderful mentor of mine amazing ready yeah and uh so I began in Structured Products and then moved into Cash equities and Structured Products which meant that I was covering both and was leading the team that was a great opportunity for me it was a much bigger role and really enjoyed that Jean is an incredibly inspirational person and she was really great at making sure that we as the new kids were well well integrated I I I laugh and I we we we look back on that time and she is the bank that acquired us also talks about the intensity of that period where leading up to that that offer that they made what they had to go through in terms of due diligence in terms of you know really trying to understand our business and see whether the fit was right do you know do you know when I knew that this was a possibility I would see very senior people uh walking from Bank of Singapore to ocbc like at 7:00 at night with folders like every time I would drive home any it was always after 7:00 and I thought oh something's going on something's going on and it was a very you know everybody that you and I know at BOS who were in senior positions look back on that time and say it was intense it was an all handson deck experience massively it's not just we have a war room and it's kept you know um Chinese walls from everyone else it was anybody who needed to get their hands dirty and really understand what was in the books yeah got brought across the wall um so yeah joined there I was like the it was like a marriage a second marriage where you've got step kids so you've got the got the the family who's been together and then the step kids join and we were this group of you know um newbies who who had to very quickly feel that we fit it in and that we could add value to the business and and I think you'll ask a lot of your PE friends who were in Bank of Singapore at the time that the Barclay's acquisition was an incredible acquisition for them that they the the the skill set that we added the books that we added was incredibly complimentary and helped BOS to to scale to where it is today it's funny because I I had worked with in before osc acquired them and there were a lot of similari SE that I can see between in and Barkley's terms of the size and and the dynamism of the of the team um but I remember with Barkley I placed the most senior Banker Revenue wise at the bank had ever hired and shreni had got um a $1.5 billion FX line for one of the clients I know exactly who talking about and and this guy you know and they did you know $5 million in revenue on day one kind of thing and it was crazy and um that's where you really see um the front office the banker side working with the products team so closely to get things lined up well and that was the big difference between the two Banks Barclays we sat on the floor yeah the RMS were arms length yeah and would come over and hustle me know get me the best price get me to this speak to this issue I do this um and I loved that because we were very integrated into the front line Bank of Singapore by virtue of its size you have to sit very separately and that is typical with most of the big private Banks you have your products team end up being in a very different area to your R well I think the thing is with with that team they would have had a real appreciation for you because if you look at when when I placed Fidelis he was not from private banking either right Mark vandell had the vision and the foresight to hire someone like him and you know Fidelis and they assembled this amazing team with Jean and shoue and what have you so on so then how did your career take off because this is where it started reshaping right you started you know derivatives were my excuse me were my area of expertise but I learned a lot of other skills and that's one great thing that BOS taught me around the importance of building very very strong relationships with the front line yeah and building Champions who who believe in you believe in your product because at any one point in time we know that an irm is bombarded with things that they need to do they to go you know sorry I want to touch upon that because you made such a great point about building Champions yeah just elaborate that because I always feel that that's something that is people overlooked because I think we all recognize it helps if you have a Godfather or godmother in the business um but unequivocally you need to have multiple champions in different ways right yep absolutely so um back to my point around RMS are at any one point in time being asked to do many many things it's not an easy job anyone out there who hasn't been in RM and goes oh you're just out whining and dining it is not the case it's far from it it's a challenging job they have to bring in new clients they're expected to bring in new money they are expected to generate Revenue they are there are many many metrics that at any one point in time they're being judged on and so as a product team you are competing with other areas of the capital markets you talked about sh way you know you will be competing with the FX team we'll be competing with the the funds team you'll be competing with the altz team for eyeballs and time so you have to build relevance you have to find champions in the front line who are willing to believe in you willing to bring you to their client meetings willing to make you a part of their team and that's really important something that I didn't appreciate appreci as much until I arrived at BOS that you need to have a team that can go to a client and and showcase the bank's capabilities yeah because if if it's just an RM seeing the client in any one point in time the RM will pick and choose what they're going to speak to the client about so if I wanted to build revenue if I wanted to make sure that I've got something really interesting that needed to be shared with some of our best clients who I thought really would be interested in this and I would make sure that I knew who these people were in the front line that I needed to be close to so that'd take me out and we engage with clients so you looked after manage Investments so I moved across I the time was looking after Structured Products and equities and then you mentioned Fidelis earlier and Mark they um also a very important people in my in my career asked me if I would like to move across and look after the advisory um Team in manag Investments and that and discretionary portfolio management and like many sliding doors moments that we have in our lives I said to myself should I do this or not you know this this this is moving out of my wheelhouse this is not an area that I feel I will add value you know you always have these moments of um in in security I say it where you think can I can I comfortably take on something brand new run a team and succeed were you very honest knowing you you probably were did you ask them why do you think I can do this what's behind the thought process I'm a relatively transparent person so I maybe my honesty is is one of my my pitfalls but yeah absolutely you know what have I got that someone else wouldn't bring to this role and um one thing I can say very openly about Fidelis is that he he's amazing individual and uh he inspired me I always used to laugh and say I could be knee knee deep in work so busy like have so many things going on and then I would hear him yell out down the down the floor P you got five minutes and I'd walk into his office and I would have no bandwidth at all and yet I would come out feeling so inspired and so so ready to do for him I'd fly to the moon so he just basically sold it on me and I moved across amazing team and to this day a lot of the team is still there yeah we managed to grow the book The Business significantly um and we we reshaped it a little as well I I'm a very data focused person I believe that data is um incredibly important um all the relationships all that aside dat actually tells you a lot about the business absolutely became very data focused in the in the team at the time um Bank of Singapore was embarking on a a really big data analytics program yeah which has really helped to reshape the bank as it is today because it put the power of um visibility and and what's really going on under the hord into each of the product teams which is so important right and so we built out propensity models and all kinds of really interesting things that allow us to think about how we can engage clients differently who are our highest you know the kind of clients that would be most interested in what we are you know looking to you know you know what you talking about Fidelis I was just thinking Mark invited me to come to the floor the trading floor and see everything and where and I knew I knew 100% when I got there Fidelis was there he'd be up standing up walking around which he was and Kevin Kevin ju was the other one and I just thought you can see them and just thought I know exactly who's going to be stood up Anda you know just seeing what was going on behind look Kevin amazing person as well um that that that part though we you know you touched upon this but I think Walking the Floor engaging people EQ IQ but I I think that's something that uh sometimes is overlooked because I think CU I can have 10 Raisor maze in front of me and you know we all equally good yeah when you sit down with people and you understand their chemistry and how they engage that's that's the true tell of what that person's character is like right oh absolutely EQ is incredibly important yeah um and certainly When I Look to to interview people or if I'm looking to to add people to to either my team or if I'm meeting them for other people's teams I look for EQ I I I really believe that in order for teams to succeed everybody needs to have that emotional emotional quotient right to be able to understand everyone to be able to see things through that lens yeah I'm just curious because um having worked here for such a long time there there is it's a very nuanced place in Singapore but in in I know the lot of the teams that you've worked in have been very culturally diverse yeah how have you adapted and what have the nuances been when you've been leading and building these teams cuz it you know for for people that haven't lived and worked in Singapore it is so diverse you do have to adapt right and that's one of the things I absolutely love about Singapore um the every bank that I've worked in has had a different cultural diversity and cultural fit and especially in my role today not only do I interact with a lot of people within our Singapore office but we have 14 different markets and it's incredibly um different when you're speaking to the Hong Kong team versus the team in Dubai versus the team in Malaysia versus the team in Kenya you know it's amazing at how you need to really understand understand everyone's cultural values you what they you know um what drives them and then everyone we're all the same in the end yeah you know uh as long as you can appreciate and understand that and bring that to your you know office every day then then you become one big big team well tell us a little bit about oversight what you're managing now so I'm at standard charted now and I look after advisory Solutions um for our group wealth management business it's what is your advisory solution mean it means different things in different BS course yeah so for us let me first just tell you a little bit about our wealth management business because that then leads nicely into where where we fit um we are in a we're having an incredible uh period of time in our wealth management business at the moment and our Q3 results have just come out and and we're really proud of how the wealth management business is performing and that's a culmination of many things the markets of naturally been good but we've spent a lot of time over the last few years to really focus in on what's important to drive our business and bring new customers to our to our bank and then grow the customers that we have our board has now just agreed to double the investment in our wealth management business which is so exciting so I feel very privileged at the moment to be in this position where we are we have this ability to grow the the business significantly yeah we are looking to grow the business through um growing the number of Frontline people so RMS the wealth Specialists that we have growing them because that's how we see we're going to grow our client base as well we're going to grow our platforms and digital there's a whole number of things but but when it comes to the the front line that comes with other challenges you bring new people into the bank are they going to be more Junior are they going to be looking for senior hires particularly when you're hiring at scale you are challenged by making sure that you bring the right people in and also that they can then adopt very quickly our operating model yeah and so this is where advisory comes in wealth management advisory is a huge part of us enabling us to grow our business because it's one thing to acquire new clients it's one thing to bring in money but we need to then ensure that we have a very strong advisory platform to grow those clients and to make sure that they feel that we are their wealth manager of choice um at any one point in time most clients will have two three maybe even four banking relationships and if you are their Premier B banking relationship you're going to have the the line share of their wallet yeah um second third fourth you you you're in the you know low single digits do you do you feel sorry it's interrupted do you feel because when I look at clients in Asia I think there are probably three types of banks that they immediately will gravitate towards number one will be traditionally a big Swiss bank right uh two I think a universal Bank uh like you guys fall under that bracket and then increasingly a local bank and then you'll have a boutique bank so do you find that when you're competing are you competing with all the banks or primarily the universal Banks that's a great question and um we recently held a a a Leadership Summit that I um was lucky enough lucky enough to to really listen to our senior leaders presenting it and I love their message their message is we have a right to win but let's win where in in areas that we are good at and so in a localized context there are only certain um areas where we may have strengths over a local bank so let's play to those strengths yes um we have a global footprint that already gives us a an ability to um have a stronger proposition for certain clients what's fascinating at the moment is when we look at our International Banking and it is growing incredibly strongly particularly we've got a big focus on our um Global affluent Chinese clients and our Global affluent Indian clients um many of which are more mobile now they're banking in lots of different markets so International is really important for us and if you're a local bank can be very challenging to um to really U provide a good proposition for those kind of clients so being a global player yeah really helps because a client has a business in China they can Bank in China with our really great China team but then they can Bank in Hong Kong or they can Bank in Singapore with us or they can Bank in Dubai or Kenya if they want to or nirro you know in sorry in um Ghana you know there are there are we offer this platform that gives them choices yes on top of that because we're a global player we get access to global products Global Solutions Global um managers and investment Banks who will give us Solutions or give us access to things that we may not have if we're a local player so it gives us clout so advisory Solutions what does that mean in terms of asset class and Al so we cover so so I know recently you had Steve on the podcast and you also had Nick so um we sit between the two of those okay um Nick represents the capital markets products we also have our managed Investments team and our Alternatives team who are looking after all the managed Solutions then we have our chief investment office we are the team that sits between them we are there to make sure that when a call is made when an asset allocation um decision is made that the implementation of that then um is is done through an advisory lens so we have teams in 14 markets we have investment advisers have you been to all 14 locations I haven't I haven't and you should you've got to you got get the bank of I want to go to Kenya is very important for business no and I would love to I I plan to I I was recently in China and that was really exciting seeing what the team is up to there and really understand it's not until you're on the ground that you can understand what the business pulse really is it's very exciting in China they growing their business rapidly the the the value and the um the size of clients now is increasing very very quickly massively so so I want to um I want to talk about work life balance right because I think this is something that we all struggle with but as a mom and I always feel that moms do a lot more work than dads even though I'm a very involved dad with three kids how do you juggle how do you balance it all so the term bance already sort of assumes that there's some form of equilibrium and and I think bet it is very rare for that to be the case um a couple of things here I think you're right in that often moms do take the line share of the the the the parenting kids naturally gravitate towards moms a lot more right yeah although I'm very fortunate my husband is very Hands-On and does a lot of work with the kidss so he looks after the homework which is great because that's you know an area that I get too frustrated um so uh no so the work life balance I during my early days when I had no children when I wasn't married it didn't matter yeah I was 7 a.m. on the floor reading the news getting up to speed our first meeting was at 7:15 and then it's bang you're on the phones Market's open an hour later you were there until late you're often entertaining clients until very late at night now in my world I feel really privileged standard charted has an incredible um philosophy around um work life balance around ensuring that everybody's mental well-being is is taken into account fantastic so we can work from home a couple of days a week um and so I tend to use that where I spend 3 days in the office or four days and then at least one or two at home but what's interesting there is that there is this assumption sometimes in certain leaders heads and not in standard charted but you're hearing it already about this whole wh back to work um um rhetoric that if you're at home then you're not necessarily able to be seen and may not work so hard I'm the opposite so for me I work harder I'll be the first one in my household up I'll be on the laptop I'll be working yeah um but from my my perspective my children see me and that's what I love that I'm on work calls I'm working but I'm present and they not they're not interrupting me but they are seeing me it's the very first thing my children speak ask me every morning at 6:00 when they're out they say you're working from home today Mom and they're off at school they don't you know it's not really a big deal for them but it's obviously imprinted in their brain that when I come home mom will be there yeah um so I don't have a lot of balance per se during the week but they see me and I'm very much a part of their lives on the weekend it's drop everything for the kids yeah and I am Mom taxi I am Mom coach my husband is the coach help coaches his uh the kid the boys rugby team okay um and fully involved that I love because that's that's me giving as much of me that I can give on a weekend it's it's um it's such a journey being a parent right and uh I know like my wife and I we we only really ever argue about the kids because we have slightly different parenting Styles what's your parenting style you know I'm I'm old school I I'm very loving I'm very supportive um but I think you got to toughen up right and and um I'm No Nonsense when it comes to that kind of thing right we're not tiger parents but what I've learned is that with my son's journey in particular I'm so proud of him is that he he naturally wasn't a sports person in his own mind and I don't know why where it came from and I've just seen him evolve and when he was younger it was a little bit of pushing and pulling and a little bit of needling here and there cuz kids I don't think kids inherently are lazy right but parents can be lazy so you have to get up and you show them so there's this saying that I live by how I do anything is how I do everything so if I'm up like this morning I was up at half five I worked out um my son finished his exams yesterday and I saw him get up and he saw me and I know that that will just register with him yeah right and then that that's it but um but the difference is I I think I said to my son I said I probably in your lifetime you will rarely maybe never meet another man who wants you to be better than them in all things but I want you to and you're you're he's already there in many ways but I love that you're an you're an amazing role model the fact that he wakes up and already sees you having done a workout you're ready for work and you're already able to engage with him as well I mean that's an amazing role model and he will take that into you know his his career and his his future you know you'll get this cuz you're a sports person but it was like we we sparred we did some boxing the other day and he whooped me how did that feel well physically it felt terrible emotionally it felt brilliant and um and I got I put it like this before I even moved one foot he'd hit me five times and I don't know what I don't know yeah and he and he said he didn't didn't tea off of me but put it like this at the end of the round I had to go home I sat in my car for 45 minutes Isaac had to bring me a a cold glass of water I drove home I was just lying in bed for 4 hours literally physically phed just because he'd hit me and um oh it was also mentally just the physical side it wasn't the mental I wasn't worried about but uh and then for three or four days I felt like I had a whiplash wow and I text him cuz he and thing is it was the end of his training session see he was already tired and then he went out with his mates and I wrote to him I said you absolutely would me and I just said I'm so proud of you so a see I love that and that you're so proud of him yeah and there comes a point in time right where you're your parenting relationship changes yeah 100% that's that's yeah you're no longer the strong or the the the scor one or the one that knows everything you suddenly become more on a PA with one another and you become friends and become you know I love the fact that you said I'm so proud of you that's not said enough yeah my dad's you know I love my dad dearly we had a very complex relationship he was old school he never he never said he loved me and um he was a builder and he was competitive with me and I never understood that why would you want to compete with me just teach me yeah and and um and I made you know and I love my dad dearly but I wouldn't I never wanted to have that relationship with my kids yeah right but I can tell you I can still whoop them both running a short distance I can't do long dist it's only a matter of time they're going to get a matter of time no I think I think I I genuinely I'm saying this on camera I'm 47 out I don't think they'll be able to beat me in a race before I'm 55 there's no way there it's not going to happen all right I'll uh I'll be back in touch with you in a few years and we'll get you out on the Evans Road Track and we'll set up 100 me for you we'll go maybe maybe 50 m I had I had a arm wrestle with my son the other day how did he go so that was my defining moment much smaller than your fight with your as in your boxing but I I'm relatively strong you're a strong woman I can tell he whipped me and uh yeah I thought I'd at least hold my own for at least 30 seconds or so but no straa straight down brilant only yeah he's only 14 it's brilliant yeah um I I wanted to ask you a little bit about um what your routine is cuz the one thing that always staggers me when I see you you always look amazing on you know I try to hold myself you know to your standard it's not easy um you're always slim you're always in shape I mean like do you watch your diet are you like exercising don't if you say you don't do anything a lot of women are going to be annoyed with you right are you are you training several days a week is it structured um firstly thank you that's a very nice thing for you to say uh I think we should all take pride in ourselves right because the person that you present in a business environment in a client um environment and also amongst your friends is is is how they then see you so I do take pride in myself um but do I work harder probably not as hard as I should um [Music] I I've always loved sport I've always love staying fit I love that feeling of pushing yourself pushing yourself to the Limit and then afterwards thinking that hurt but that feels so great and I I don't train as much now as I ought to I spend my weekends exercising I've got a fabulous group that trains out at Evans Road and we do track work the weekends oh wow um and I used to do a lot of boxing but in the in a in a more of a boot camp setting yeah which I love you know it's really great really good for upper arm strength and I think as we get older we need to make sure that we remember the importance of staying strong yeah um as our families start to age you you do see that if your bones and your muscles and your body stays strong yeah you can live a lot longer than the ones who aren't looking after themselves absolutely um I'm I want to just touch upon your Odyssey like in terms of self-development you know professionally have you been someone that has read a lot of books listened to podcasts um you know how do you stay in front of the curve that's a fairly multifaceted question as far as developing myself I listen to podcasts all the time and it's more out of interest I'm a very curious person I I I don't wake up and say right I need to read a leadership book I'm going to read Cheryl's leading book today because that's going to remind me about the importance of you know speaking up and leading I I that's not how I have you read that book I got halfway through it sorry Cheryl I got halfway through it and uh I think it has a lot of interesting things but um it wasn't necessarily for me um I listened to podcasts I I never if you'd asked me five years ago if ID felt that the podcast um platform would become so mainstream I would have said no way yeah but today first thing you asked about routines first thing I do when I wake up in the morning I listen to markets I'll listen to a CNBC podcast or something that just straight into my head what happened overnight Yeah Bang and that's just to set that just resets me every morning um and it's not even like in my current role that I'm very as close to markets as as I used to be but it's just something that I love that I'm really interested in um so then when I go for my walks or if I go out exercising I'll always have something playing not music per se it's usually a podcast because that's when I do my best thinking I I voice to text was the best thing ever invented for me because I will be out there I'll be thinking I'll pause I'll Bang quickly record it yeah and I'll come back and go wow P what you you're inspiring me now um so that's really where I do most of my self um self-reflection and thinking about where we're going to do certain things for the businesses when I'm outside of the office it's interesting and I've always find I don't know about you but I can remember where I was and what what the idea was when I'm outside cuz when you're at your desk you know cuz you're your desk so often it's not different but if you're outside walking you kind of remember oh I was here I was doing this and it kind of you know I'm a big believer in stepping back and being able to separate yourself from the day-to-day and it's very hard I and that's probably one of my failings is that I I like to be Hands-On I am a bit um detail oriented I like everything to be relatively perfect and so I do spend a lot of time reviewing things and and putting things you know tidying things up but when I step away and I think big picture and I think right you know again the the we have an incredible leadership team in sard ched um my current boss is wonderful and and really has this ability to think big as well and um I really appreciate the time that we have when we're together and so I take those away from me and I step away from the desk and that's when I think right where are we going to to shift what's our what's our 2 to threee you know thought process around how we're going to move this and and back to the point around advisory it's so important for our business for us to be seen as a strong wealth manager um and and when we're dealing in the number of markets that we are we're not necessarily number one in all of our markets and so we have to think about how can we bring a proposition to clients that actually makes sense and and adds value to them so they they look at us and go I want to be partnered with standard charted so so they they require big big thinking right they require you to do um many senior bankers Market heads cover you know time with you and they say look P I want to sit down with you let me take you out for lunch you know cuz I I my my guess is it happens but probably not as much as you know if I if I was a banker you know I'd want to speak to you you'd probably say stop calling me Paul because I'd want to be very engaged and get ideas and exchange ideas to be honest more so in my previous roles simply because when you are on a product desk right when you are you know leading the the solution that are presented to clients you've got a very very close relationship with the RMS with the bankers um particularly because I was in the private bank and it's a very high touch High relationship driven business yeah um in my new role it's not so new anymore three years um I'm so privileged to actually see uh not just the private bank but I I get to see the business across the whole affluent footprint and it's huge it's a really big part of our business and it's so nuanced and different from different markets versus even the way we operate in our private bank versus our priority Bank there are different customer needs there's different solutions that we put together there's different levels of maturity with the way our RMS operate and our IAS our investment advisor operate so I we need to sit back and really think a lot more strategically about how we're going to shape the business and why I don't get the opportunity to sit down with irms like I used to but I I love it when I um just last night we were out having drinks with um some of the team and I walked past a bunch of RMS who you know asked me to join them and we had a had a a brief chat but I had to run off to netball training but that's the kind of thing that I I miss I do love that personal contact where you get to really understand how things are hitting the ground understand their their challenges understand their needs and every client when you're especially looking at the private bank every client has different needs every client has relatively specific unique needs to them and so as a partner particularly whether it be on the advisory or whether it be on product you need to be in sync with that to be thinking constantly about the client first rather than the product first and that's a really big thing that we are implementing of cost Standard Charter our advisory framework that we have rolled out and we are really really proud of focuses very much on the client and ensuring that every step of our advisory process starts with the client and starts with how do we understand what your needs are today your needs are tomorrow and your needs are into the future through forever so these are skills that we're teaching the RMS that we're teaching the investment advisors particularly in our priority Network because we have thousands and thousands of Frontline irms at any one given time you know reaching out to clients so we need to make sure that they are consistently applying what we see as a a really high quality standard chared advisory process I love it just to wrap up a few things I wanted to get a sense from you yeah in terms of the non-negotiable values uh For You especially at work what are those non-negotiable yeah bad attitude I mean it seems pretty simple but um if I love people who are willing to get their hands dirty mck in and muck in right and that's my bringing that's that's me sort of being told from a very early age that you know you're not precious just do it um so attitude is really important I I'm going to rephrase your question rather than the non-negotiables I'll tell you what I look for okay and that is a really good attitude someone who's just willing to be part of the team willing to no matter how senior they are willing to to drop everything and and and do something that's going to benefit the business um creativity I you don't need to be in marketing or in branding or in digital design to be a really creative even the best RMS who bring in the new clients and can bring in you know new and Creative Solutions have to think differently and more creatively so I look for that I I love energy naturally I like high energy people but then I also appreciate that not everyone can can can carry the kinds of energy that that I look for um and yeah that's probably sums it up attitude creativity and and doesn't matter how senior you are I think that you need to um have that ability to bring people along for the journey um Inspire others Inspire your peers yeah that's brilliant what what advice would you give for some young people that are embarking upon their career you know want to be Progressive and that are healthy ambitious what would you suggest that they do in their roles to be seen to be observed to be recognized yeah um step up that seems a bit glib right you go what does that mean what do that you know that's a fairly easy thing to say but be willing to be visible if someone asks you to present something yeah or be if you do some work that you know you're proud of make sure people know about it right step out of the Shadow Step Up be visible always be willing to say yes I I when we joined Bank of Singapore the concept of working groups was something that was new to me at the time and suddenly I was like wow you got pulled into every working group and and I love that about Stan chart as well we have a lot of working groups which gives you the ability to uh work with lots of different people across the bank and your you know whether it be diversity inclusion or whether it be the um the the learning um team that I'm now on these are places that if you say no or you're not willing to step up and be a part of these groups you won't get the opportunity to hear other people's views learn from other people and also be uh um associated with people from other areas so make sure that you you lean in Step Up um don't be afraid to make bad choices yeah because at the time there are no bad choices I look back on my career and I have changed careers from Investment Banking private banking now you know being much more broader across private and priority um and so give something a go I love it going to do some rapid fire questions yep favorite childhood memory from the farm definitely riding horses and being being out there I love it yeah if you could ride anywhere in the world other than back home in Australia where would that be so I'm a mountain person I love mountains I am I the Alps is the best place for me ever but you know I I'm this isn't actually the answer but through that I would love to be in Montana and I know that you went to Montana a a family holiday but I think Montana looks like the most beautiful picturesque place to it's it's stunning well i' actually talking of that I did do a a halfday riding trip just in the Montana mountains with this one fellow and um it was just amazing because it was I felt like I went through three different climate zones by the time we got to the top I'm having these images of uh Billy Crystal and City Slickers oh yeah I'm seeing you in your cowboy hat and you like with your big chaps going woohooo well Jack Jack Palance was this was a young version of Jack Palance was the guy that took him out um but yeah that was it was brilliant um one book you've read recently that or podcast that you've listened to that inspired you I I listen to a lot of podcasts probably more so than I than I read physical books anymore um a book that stayed with me for a long time is a book called touching the Vo by Joe Simpson it's a mustre touching the um it's about a man a British man who goes climbing with a friend in the Andes and they they have a fall they're at 7,000 M they have a fall and his friend is holding the rope and he's hanging off a cliff and his friend has to make the decision either we both die here or I cut the rope and I won't spoil it for you but he's not the he's the one dangling at the end of the Rope jeez and it's an amazing story I read it years ago and it's just stuck with me because it really teaches you about adversity and about you know how you can overcome what they're really quite um you know pretty terrible odds so that but podcasts I I listen to a lot of podcasts I listened to one called Allin which um you know is an American podcast but it's a lot of Founders who have a lot of really interesting love name all in yeah yeah I absolutely love it um what's your best way to distress after a long day in the office is it without a doubt nothing like having a good laugh it brings you it brings you back to it grounds you I tease my kids a lot we have a lot of fun together favorite sport to play and to watch play it ball I was playing last night love it coach it love it um watch Athletics favorite sports woman of all time Serena Williams without a doubt 23 Grand Slams that's a no-brainer Beast yeah she's just she's incredible right um and very inspirational and love my daughter to see her as a as a role model yeah she's she's uh really an all-time great if you weren't in banking if you weren't in this career what do you think you'd be doing I could be many things but um I'd probably be in the mountains I'd be a mountain guard you have a lot in common no no because I I I yeah I get that fully there's nothing like being on top of the mountain really it is just magical it is magical if you could give you yourself one piece of advice when you were younger what what would that be at any time you know in your youth oh that's a really tricky one um Don't Sweat the Small Things yeah really I I a lot of things worry me they worry us all right and you look back and you go wow Pia that that wasn't really worth worrying soon um believe in yourself probably a lot of times I haven't believed that I had the ability to take on a role you know when you get calls and people say oh would you like to do this oh I don't think I can do that so believe in yourself give it a try yeah it's funny cuz um we talking about my mom earlier and what I noticed that she got older she got to that point where she didn't give a crap because you've lived life you've you know what do you got to be worried about and um I try to take lessons from that cuz we all have our anxiety you know and fast forward if you're 60 or 70 you like you've been there done that so interesting lesson to learn um what skill do you wish you have but you you've never sat down to to learn um I wish I'd done debating at school I really do I've not met your husband I'm sure he would tell me you're pretty good debater I I I admire anybody that can think so quickly that in a debate style scenario they can come up very quickly with a great argument and a great quip and a great closure that is a enormously important skill and I wish I had it well let me tell you my wife lawyer Professor full bright scholar ex debater 21 years together and I've not won an argument ever I'm not come close I and then to be fair to to yourself and Tara debating and arguing are slightly different right that's true because I do feel in the office environment having that skill because a debater has the ability to also um change the the subject to to to their narrative right and and I think that's really important because you've got an audience you've got to make sure that you are as well absolutely I love that um if I was to ask you what's one thing about you that would surprise most people that they don't know about you I've revealed a relatively large number of those today uh it would be my love of DIY there you go there's something really weekend I out I had a paintbrush I went to this great little hardware store in an hdb near where I live there are beautiful bunch of people who who work there and every time I walk in they laugh and I came in and bought some Timber paint on the weekend and I was out painting my deck good for you I love it well it's been an absolute pleasure anything on that note really El what do you have any have you got any projects that you that you're working on now you know at home or with at work that you want to talk about any major projects that you're allowed to talk about no no look we I've already highlighted it's a really exciting time for standard charted right now being in the wealth management business is is really where we are you know investing in and we are wanting to succeed much more than we even are today which is is we're doing really well so I just I'll come back in a year and let's see how you know the next 12 months going it's it's a really exciting time for us thank you so much it's been I'm glad that we have survived there's been no flood I know look the sun's out now we're good we're good thank you thanks being cheers

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