#11 with Philip Kunz, Group Market Head: Mastering Private Banking

[Applause] [Music] hi guys today I sat down with a very dear friend of mine someone that I've worked with since uh 2005 Mr Philip kunun is a leading industry expert and in many way one of the Elder Statesmen of private Bing here in Singapore we sat we unraveled his story how he came to prominence um growing up in Switzerland and zorich before moving to London before eventually embarking upon what has been a tremendous journey in Singapore it was an absolute pleasure and I hope you enjoyed the chat as much as I did Cheers Mr CS how are you terrific top of the world delighted to be here with you Paul it's so kind of you to join us for those that don't know we've known each other probably 17 and a half years a long time a long friendship and uh it's one that I really appreciate can you be kind enough just to introduce to our audience for those few that don't know you who you are and a little bit about your background delighted to do so so yes my name is Philip Philip K I originally hail from Switzerland actually a dual National I was born in Canterbury Kent but my entire upbringing actually was in Switzerland including the start of my career as a very young Apprentice I proudly uh here in Singapore and I actually call it home and have done so now for nearly the last 30 years amazing yeah a lot of people don't know about your UK Heritage so tell us a little bit about where you grew up in Switzerland uh Zurich uh is my hometown um the best town in uh Switzerland many will disagree uh but I'm absolutely convinced uh the beautiful Lake the the river the mountains that you get to see from the city center and the good thing is in within the shortest time you're up in the mountains uh uh um whether that's in summer the hiking or then of course uh the skiing in Winter yeah so beauti fantastic the only thing about Switzerland is if you get a taxi you almost need to take out a mortgage that's true uh very very expensive having said that here in Singapore and nothing is getting cheaper uh if I compare what a taxi fair used to cost 30 years ago Visa today at day and night right very different well the the price of cars my friends back in Europe when they buy a new car and they send me a picture it just makes me want to cry well that is a very sad topic right uh factor of three I guess you have to lay out here for the same car that you could get in uh in Europe yeah and the two of us loving cars yes that's a bit painful it's a it's a challenge now share with us because you talk about having an apprenticeship which I think is sadly missed these days how did you decide to get into banking was it natural calling or what's the story more luck than anything else Paul uh actually uh happy that actually somebody employed Ed me I had very different interests at a young age a lot of people may know that it was Sports football in particular uh my grades were not very great on the contrary uh so after a long search actually I was uh very happy and very lucky to be taken in uh by a very very small Bank 16 employees that was a bank wow but most probably what shaped my career from those very very early days it was a private bank a very small Boutique a client Centric private bank and unlike U apprenticeship at a larger institution from day one you get involved on in all aspects right rather than being rotated three months here three months there so uh really from day one and so the practical application uh of your daily duties Visa uh classroom uh more Theory stuff I think uh actually built the foundation of what was to come yeah I think that's that's so important because when you think about it nowadays if you grow up in a private bank you're segmented pretty much from day one especially in the big Bank you got to see everything look uh um it is very very different right uh two folds first of all um the the requirements uh are much much tougher I don't think I will get a job nowadays with my qualifications uh Paul thank God nobody asks too much about it um so it's a concept that is extremely well established in Switzerland uh northern Europe more broadly and so essentially It's a combination of uh Theory the through a commercial College about three days a week you actually apply that and so yes this tiny little Private Bank uh even had a teller a cashier which I also had to learn uh there's a little anecdote to that maybe later on um but very quickly then got the exposure to clients uh how do you interact with them how do you actually develop the skill of listening and I think until today that's uh one thing that sets a good private Banker apart from one another uh the ability to listen ask the right questions uh don't interrupt and then probe rather than just taking the first answer so that was fantastic but as as many things in life limited Limited to 3 years uh and I had uh the desire actually uh to go to England where my parents had moved to interesting enough they actually moved away from Switzerland my very first day of the apprenticeship oh really yeah and so what I believe to be a metropolitan City at the time and maybe it is uh full of uh you know Temptation and going off the wrong way very disciplined I I did what I needed to do but Paul actually the thing that kept me focused was the love of what I was doing from day one and that Fire Within H is still as strong and as hot as it was there uh essentially what we do is an absolute privilege yeah well anyone that knows you if they were to describe you hardworking would be at the front of it um and you're a gentleman and I'm and I mean that you know no I've never met anyone that has anything but wonderful things to say about you I'm just curious how did you learn that in you know from childhood from early leaders that you worked for for sure uh we are formed in our early early days at that particular Point uh and the got's honest truth God bless her soul my mom said to me and she knows nothing about banking nothing about business she said Phillip I only have uh one piece of advice for you be a Swiss businessman and an English gentleman and you'll do fine and I've been trying to live up to that uh ever since amazing great advice so she was from the English side yes my mom was British and my dad uh the Swiss okay hence also my our sport so when you arrived in the UK when we had lunch last the way that you described it to me it was it was like something out of a novel because the the setup was was at its infancy right yes uh so private banking outside of switzland wasn't all that broad uh uh broadly offered it wasn't all that well known uh most uh Financial Centers would have br bers risers uh deposit taking and yes law and behold I arrived there having completed my uh apprenticeship uh no money in my pocket after three months of touring uh the UK going back to my roots not wanting to live out of Dad's pocket uh and we are now talking 1985 right deep recession and one thing I can guarantee you nobody was waiting for a Swiss Apprentice in private banking so you do what a a young man do right I went to different search firms but that was quite depressing close to tears uh and people who know the UK London in particular within this area called the bank there's this street called threat needle Street yes it actually also is the doicy of the bank of England and at the very top of that uh was his Swiss bank unprepared as I was I just walked in and this proves you also need a lot of luck in life right you can be hardworking you can be smartw working but you also need the element of luck so I walked in there unannounced uh spoke to the receptionist a lovely lovely lady who I never ever forget she actually got me an application form I filled it out and by the time I actually reached home uh they called me and asked me to come in for an interview the next day I then me met somebody who I felt was a semi good at the time the branch manager but he only had one question before he actually left the interview young man so it shows you how long ago this was yeah uh where do you get this application form well I walked up threat needle I met Doris I revealed her name she gave me the form in here I am he then turned to the head of HR and says get this guy a job I like him and he walked out and I actually didn't see him for the next two years wow he was such a senior now this poor lady uh having uh received instructions to place me uh nearly tore out all her hair but where the hell Philip I don't know where to place you we have no private banking here I don't know a Swiss apprenticeship ah but then uh I guess my first kiss of luck uh professionally uh she put me in the cashier Department seven ladies myself uh we were running this for about 3 months until the real real beginning of my career as a private Banker started somebody was sent across from Switzerland to set up uh the private bank uh of the Swiss organization again hard to believe 1985 in London one of the major Financial Centers no Private Bank yeah but I was then given the opportunity five years uh after that I then did go back to Switzerland uh catch up with my military service etc etc but again the exposure that I enjoy right essentially a startup private bank from scratch doing absolutely everything at one stage I was a receptionist uh the Kier I held the keys to the Vault uh I did a client acquisition client uh uh uh uh uh advising I also did uh Street side trading all the data input so it was just amazing I loved it and it was also the cultural uh aspect to it right having been brought up in the Swiss environment reexposed to England and to be honest I was missing that good old English gentleman that my mom used to refer to occasionally you'd see somebody with an umbrella and a bowler hat yeah uh but mostly it actually didn't quite resemble what I thought uh maybe back in the 60s right a British gentleman maybe very different than what I encountered but it was an amazing time an amazing time uh but uh yes I did have the urge to go back uh find out what does it mean working at a headquarter of a very very large organization uh and then experiencing the next few years at this am amazing place called parade plots right um maybe one of the youngest ever to have a single office to my own a third uh floor overlooking the entirety of uh the par plots amazing but maybe um very important I have always been blessed to have had good bosses people who actually believed in me gave me an opportunity gave me room to prove myself um something that I actually tried to pass on to the next generation of younger Bankers uh nowadays so again that element of po Still Remains important well the the one thing with you is that you know you you refer to the word privilege and you're grateful and I think there are a lot of people in our business unfortunately take you know what we do a little bit for granted and uh I think that's a refreshing way to view things so look coming from Humble backgrounds dealing with money in the first place had a a very very different and important meaning to me uh at times I did not have two pennies to rub against each other so so the respect for money maybe even more important the respect on how to earn it how to grow it how to invest it and and maintain it right for generations to come so I think that did make a difference uh without being unfair to the younger generation because it is a very very different word right the appreciation of money and the value of money uh is very different yeah but maybe what uh help me keep uh my feet firmly on the ground right I've always viewed money as a facilitator it doesn't solve all problems sometimes you even think it brings you bigger problems H um but it is a facilitator a facilitator of aspirations of Dreams whether it's for our children the ability to send them to better schools and universities having a nice holiday every now and again um so it doesn't money alone doesn't make you happy do that do you feel do you feel that your humble background and your view of of life as you just shared it helps you connect with a lot of the clients especially the first generation clients I think the answer to that one is yes Paul right um the respect for somebody who I mean again I will use the word I've been so privileged to meet such amazing individuals entrepreneurs captains of industry uh matriarchs Patriarchs uh building unbelievable uh Enterprises from virtually nothing uh so yes that has always fascinated me I was always very eager to understand their stories and the best lessons to date have come from clients yeah well they I think they think differently right you know if you look at some of the tycoons and the interesting thing is since you're your time in Singapore you've covered all the market geographies so your audience has been as varied as they can be right talk about that how did you come from go from being Switzerland to Singapore what was that Journey again somebody uh was willing to take a bet on me right uh Paul uh I knew nothing about Singapore um even less about the rest of Asia I actually had to look it up on the map where it was this little red dot right that has become our home that I love so much yes uh so yes there was a very very steep learning C uh in the context of private I knew no one I knew no one and again here it was for a Swiss organization that I came out uh for again uh no private banking we only just started prior to that like most others actually there were representative offices trying to find uh clients out there who would be willing to consider uh parking their money putting the money in Switzerland it was only in the early '90s where that capability was built locally and from that point onward Paul wow what an amazing story this has been yeah and the pace at which it has all happened yes from time to time you hear people suggesting that Singapore is a modeled off of Switzerland and the proud swis that I am I will still say today in many aspects I actually think Singapore has overtaken the original mhm um it's fascinating so when you arrived was it 97 uh so that's when in the family my my f my maiden trip was in 1993 wow so physically Singapore looked completely different and what was the landscape of private banking was it literally at its infancy in Singapore it was literally at at its infancy right um all along Singapore has attracted um virtually everybody with name and rank in the industry yeah uh you'd see a very typical pattern uh especially over the foreign Banks they would actually first come out with their uh investment Banks their corporate Banks and then uh um develop the private bank from there um and so exactly the same when I came out here there was a an investment Bank of this organization there was a tiny tiny uh uh corporate bank there uh but no Private Bank uh of size and meaning and that's true for the for the entire industry and that's where a huge element of pride comes into it I do consider myself a little bit of a pioneer of those early days really kickstarting um what is today such an amazing industry yeah none of that could have been possible uh without the Fantastic support that the regulator uh and Singapore Inc as I affectionately uh refer to supports business uh more General uh but banking then in in particular and that combination uh of the regulator it's development board and the industry uh collectively finding the best and most sustainable answer in my humble opinion uh is the main reason why Singapore has become uh what it is uh today yeah it really is when so your time originally in the UK and then going back to Switzerland that was basically the blueprint for what you needed to set up here right if you look for one common thread or red thread right uh throughout my career it is the privilege of building yeah either something from scratch or something that was there uh more meaningful right um because after that initial stint with the Swiss organization uh I did something that's quite unusual for a Swiss who who tend to stick with their own yeah uh maybe even a little bit snobbish we think we are the best at it uh but I did learn different versions to it right they different approaches where you can be very very successful uh in private banking yes and today they are different models uh and so in my long long career and that now spans for 42 years uh I have worked on very different uh platforms on different models uh participating in this private banking industry yeah it's fascinating because I think when I look at um some of the people that you have worked with and have brought across into Singapore from other countries it's a who's who you like literally I could speak to any top tier person today and they will have some sort of connection with you many ways um one of the things I wanted to find out about is when you came here did you find that there was a different working style you know in Singapore Visa Switzerland in the UK and then how did you deal with that adaptation so maybe that's why it was so easy for me and my family uh to assimilate here in Singapore uh and to call it home uh today because there are so many similarities uh both nations are not overly blessed with uh raw materials Commodities so from a very young age you need to excel uh through uh education right you really you have to learn languages right who outside of Switzerland speaks Swiss German nobody is the answer right so not that my English is any good but from a very early day you actually need to uh expose yourself to the world and learn different things different cultures different languages yeah uh the work ethic is also extremely similar right hard workking dedicated uh and that made the beginning that much easier allowing me then to focus on creating building finding networks yeah which ultimately then becomes the most important piece uh in a successful private banking career yeah uh you're kind to say the who's who I I myself have been very privileged to have been guided mentored led by individuals and I see it as my calling and as my purpose actually to pass that on to all uh future Generations uh to come which you do I mean I'm just curious what are some of the key leadership qualities that you've observed that you really admired that you tried to build into your management style you see uh I actually think everything is connected uh what is important in your private life what is important to be successful in sport is exactly the same uh in business yeah and so I don't believe that there's uh uh two versions of a Philip right there's only one and his totality um I think what people are looking for is that Honesty integrity and most of all Paul trust yes for the simple fact that we're all individuals from different backgrounds different starting points but we all have the same uh problems the same headaches the worries the happiness right um we have different backgrounds some of us are privileged to have been born uh into very wealthy uh families and others not uh I've always tried to make sure whether in my conversations with a driver with a tea or a chairman I actually show them that respect yeah of course your conversations or maybe the impact on your life and career is very different talking to a chairman or a leader Vis the tea lady bracket safe of her poisoning your tea um so I I think it's that that that Integrity that Honesty yeah but what I try is actually to be authentic to be myself right be honest be honest in your conversations in your relationships that then actually also allows you to have tough conversations and helping somebody on or in their career is not always right let me uh share an example if I would wake up tomorrow morning and say I want to be the president uh of Singapore I would like you my good friend to say Phillip yeah that's never going to happen but don't stop there give them Hope by showing a different avenue have you thought of this very very exciting and by the way I can help you on that Journey yeah so I I do think people uh look for leaders that show those qualities yes of course everybody says all visions and strategies um I think a they are interchangeable uh and they're not the most important uh elements too yes hardworking Integrity honesty uh um whatever you do do it with passion yeah what you passionately love you will do well so I think most people are looking for somebody to help them identify what does that passion mean for them what is that love that they're looking for yeah and how can they best go about pursuing uh that you know one of the interesting things is you you and I are old school in this sense that we we can obviously have a a great conversation over the phone cuz a lot of people just WhatsApp each other now but you'll always make the effort to sit down and meet for a coffee and and sit down in person and have a chat CU I think that's something that's massively overlooked right especially nowadays where people work from home a lot so let me expand a little bit so all businesses are people businesses right but most probably none more so than private banking yeah it's all about people all about people so no matter how busy you are right find that time and dedicate that time to the individual whom you're reaching out to or vice versa make them feel that in that moment they are the focus they are the center of right uh put your modern gadgets aside yes and nothing beats a face-to-face conversation whether that's building relationships with prospects right with existing clients uh whether in your family the worst thing uh you come home right your head is still full of your business uh activity the daughter has a simple question and you're not even really listening same in in your business environment right yeah make that person feel special the next 10 minutes 15 minutes 1 hour I'm only here to listen to you and see how I can help you I think that uh is what most people uh are hoping for it's not always well practice for right let's not glorify um time pressure in particular the further up the ladder you go becomes immense yeah uh and it's difficult actually to carve out at that time uh constantly you see yourself in meetings uh back to back uh and that is where you need to uh create that discipline and the only way to do it and that's something I've been living by you need to genuinely care right if you ask me what is your management style Philip what is your leadership I'm not even sure whether it's an official Theory or methodology I call it a leading by observation you can only do that and you can only see things if you truly care I can walk the floor and I can see whether somebody has a good or a bad day I would know the families of the college colleagues that are in the office with me um so it's that genuine respect and care for the individual that actually allows you to operate like that and by the way it has a lot of very positive side effects your best risk manager is actually knowing your people yeah you know what's interesting is um when we first met I was I was kind of in my late 20s I think it was 27 28 something like that and that didn't matter to you right and we sat down and and uh why I say that's important is because when I've dealt with a lot of senior people sometimes you have to prove yourself to them and I I didn't get that feeling with you at all you know you welcom me having a call with you we had a coffee um and and we became friends and um it's it's unusual absolutely look and uh that was one of those crucial uh moments in my career having met you and you leading me on the path of actually again doing something very different on a very different platform that I had before giving me the courage to venture out uh specific to your question again it comes back to the same uh uh principle right it doesn't matter how old you are how young you are where you come from you're an individual who has the same uh fear and worries as everyone else for sure and it is in these conversations where you learn so much and maybe diersing a little bit here and going to my sporting days yeah right what what position did you play by the way what was your main position over the years actually virtually everyone safe of goalkeeper uh but also there right you need a combination of talent you need a combination of age which is expressed in experience uh you can't win with only strike you but also the whole concept of team and team work I think that is where I really learned the basis of how to actually interact with a group of people share common goals and aspirations how to achieve them and how to help out your colleagues and sometimes these colleagues are competitors yeah right yeah you have 11 uh in in the starting Squad they 22 fighting for exactly this yeah there are people that you may not necessarily uh be fully aligned with but during that 90 minutes of play you are one you're a unit and so very similar right uh in business what I find interesting because a lot of CEOs ruled by divide and conquer which I understand and we understand the politics I've always subscribed to a rising tide raises Old Ship so if you've got Ronaldo and Messi playing on the same team they should be working together right um correct and you do need a very strong coach uh to manage both of them they will have their own egos their own sorry um but yes uh trying to assemble the best of the best so so you know you've worked with some fantastic Bankers what would you say of the key things the key ingredients to make a really great Banker yeah so again without being too philosophical about it I truly truly believe you need to love passionately what you do in private banking maybe three or four uh elements uh loving people right really liking being around people interacting with people uh is very helpful um and that's true internally and externally love markets be fascinated by them right Global markets the way that they interact with one another love products and solutions combine all of those elements how can I actually now put some together that will help you I the client to fulfill his or her um Financial aspiration right you do need to develop the skill sets the technical but actually the far more important piece here is the skill to listen and to gain somebody's trust very often Paul at the outset it's a complete stranger yeah so again you imagine Here Comes This youngster from Switzerland U first trip into Indonesia an amazing Market in its own way right why should they listen to me right you're barely 20 years old yes at the time 25 right and then you want to talk about Cycles you want to talk about how credible are you if you can't underpin it with the knowledge that you've actually gained yeah so it is a combination of multiple skills being an outgoing uh person most probably helps would would you say an extrovert or an introvert I think I have a bit of both I do like uh moments where I'm completely on my own yeah focusing uh on be it a strategy or something else uh but then I also like uh very much the social moments whether these are the large events uh that we normally run or whether it's a intimate one-onone or being in a family session uh a setting trying to find answers for them right the challenges of multigenerational uh uh uh questions and so again the ability to interact with people from all walks of life yeah I think that's very very important well sorry to interrupt you one of the things that um unless people know your your very story career intimately you've covered markets like Indonesia Malaysia um well all all southeast Asia land markets Australia NRI and a lot of those markets are very nuanced and and I always feel that it takes years to intricately understand those markets because think about how many hundreds of times you've been to Indonesia it doesn't happen overnight but how did you deal with that that challenge because each market has its own nuances right so yes indeed uh and I'll use the word again I have been privileged in the very early days I also covered uh European markets turkey Israel Greece wow uh but one of uh my very early bosses he covered Brazil right so yes uh This Global exposure uh nothing has uh been more meaningful for me than though discovering Asia right anything from Japan China uh Taiwan all the way down to uh Indonesia Malaysia the Philippines Australian New Zealand the fascination and there's a reason why I mention this is the multitude of different cultures and history which I'm a little bit about I love history yeah I love meeting different people from different backgrounds and understanding right and again for me that has got to do with respect right respecting where they have come from respecting uh and then trying to find if it is not even in their own language because they don't speak Mandarin my Baza is uh a bit there but giving the people the the feeling that you're really trying to understand understand them you're not here to sell them something per se right you're here to find Solutions sometimes the term or financial doctor is used I don't like using it because I don't like going to the doctor who does uh or dentist for that matter um it goes a very long way right if you just learn the very basics of saying hello and thank you yeah um nothing builds more TR than the ability to Converse in in somebody's language yeah for sure and so as good as I can uh I I adapted to that but he in there also your consistency right you can't turn up one day right telling this story or or trying to uh you know sell a glass of water and tomorrow it has to be tea first and foremost your approach has to be holistic in nature a word I don't like all that much but it's very prescriptive right m and before you actually start rendering advice you have listened and you've listened the majority of the time right only then do you actually have a basis of coming up with Solutions and I think that's where the big difference lies well um unfortunately in recent years there had been a hell of a lot of pressure in the industry to emphasize far more on the immediate sale yes that has some short short-term benefits it does U uh bring you a nice positive impact but it's shortlived yes again in this people's business it's all about long-term multi-generational uh relationships I think one of the biggest dichotomies unfortunately in private banking is that most CEOs are not really being measured annually it's it feels like it sometimes it's quarterly monthly so the challenge is they're being measured for today was trying to aim for 5 years from now and that that is very difficult I'm just curious in you know in in all your business building when you've got a task you're going to build the business double AUM triple AUM where do you start you sit down with a blank canvas and and start to work out the pieces on the board I'm just curious what does that look like from behind the behind your desk so again here all right drawing from many many amazing leaders that I had myself um and like in any uh you know strategy or managerial tasks uh you need to make sure what is it that you want to achieve so again take a private bank who are we what do we represent what is our proposition what is it that we bring to Market what is my market space who are the competitors who am I up against what are their products right and then realistically find an answer that makes you unique something that is very special and all the platforms that I worked for they had something that made them different than the other yes I'm not saying better I'm saying different right and really understanding that and why would that have a benefit to you working with me on this platform That's Unique in this now there are very different models out there uh from the very very small boutique nearly romantic uh uh uh history all the way to the very very large Universal Global players right yeah and I always say there's enough Sunshine for all of us uh it is hugely competitive but if you actually focus on your key competencies right and have the ability to share this with your uh customers that is going to make it work now of course you also need to assemble the right teams nobody ever wins is on his alone right the old saying if you want to go fast you go by yourself if you want to go uh far you go with a team yeah the satisfaction of victory in a team is also far greater than your individual uh a glory for sure so where do I want to compete what is my customer what is my strategy how am I going to capture it how am I going to embrace this clientele that makes it different and hope that they will be there for the long run and and repeat you know and who are the people that I need to help me do this and you sit down you I mean listen you've always assembled fantastic teams based on obviously who you know but largely based on meritocracy which is not that common you know in our business um there there's a lot there's a lot of nepotism yes and no I think maybe nowadays much lesser than what one saw in the earlier days yeah um it really is qualifying on your own merits yes um I think we have come a very long way uh do you does that mean that you don't surround yourself with people who you trust right so uh I've worked with you for a long time uh I come across a new opportunity it's right for me uh and then I reach out to you and say hey Paul uh this is a story going forward uh we've worked extreme well together I think this will make sense for you to consider as well right um so yes it has to be your merits but working with people who you like and who you respect there's nothing wrong with that no 100% so what have you done personally professionally to optimize yourself in what is a very very competitive landscape that's constantly evolving I'm just curious what has PK done to stay ahead of the game I think the number one success factor is my NeverEnding appetite to learn right um willingness to take a certain risk um from my own professional uh career um and this is also the advice that I give to younger people right be hungry yeah learn something every single day yeah it doesn't just have to be a technical aspect of a financial product learn something that is interesting to share in conversation a lot of private banking conversations have become very boring for they're a carbon copy one after the other right I come here and tell the same story as a and b and c and d how can I Elevate that conversation that it becomes far more meaningful for you it might be a conversation about wines it might be about boxing I know the film uh uh uh freak that you are right yeah can I find topics that genuinely interest you yes and derive the private banking aspect or angle from there yeah um and and you know what you were saying earlier by the way where you show genuine interest because I remember there there were a few things I'll just share with you you may not even remember them so the first time you came to dinner at my house you brought some flowers for my wife and a bottle of wine for me which which I just thought because it's not it's not something that everyone does then another time we had done a lot of work together and you invited me out for dinner you took me to senso unfortunately the restaurant's closed down on Club Street great we had a lovely meal and the other thing that you did that is a very unusual thing so we had a mutual dear friend who was a head of HR and she had resigned from that organization and I hadn't called her that day and it only been a day and i' been a few hours since she'd resigned but you called me you said you haven't called and I said yeah I was going to do so this evening you said make sure you do um because it's important that she knows you're thinking about her and do you remember that I do because it's a very very dear friend of ours yes um uh and that had a major impact because um and and I was going to call her later that evening but the your the point is is that you called me to let me know don't forget to do this um and that that that relationship lasted for many many years after that so I I'm glad that you remember that um you see again uh it's that genuine care for individuals yeah uh Hest com uh Hest relationships right and one thing I have learned over the years whether in family or in business don't miss that call yeah right don't miss a conversation sometimes it's too late yes right so look and being Swiss timeliness has a different meaning as well right slightly tongue and cheek uh but don't miss those moments they are the ones that you're remembered by yeah they do because they escape us right but but why that was so meaningful because you know you did it purely out of friendship for me and for that person you got nothing from it and um it was just it was you know very important phone call um is it not Paul it's actually quite simple treat people the way that you would like to be treated yeah right reach out to individuals embrace them the way that you hope and somebody will do the same yeah actually again you won't know this so um this is going back 1 and a half years and you called me and at the time uh my son who was born prematurely he was in hospital for 3 months and I was at the Paragon because he was at Mount Elizabeth and at that point he'd been in hospital for about two two and a half months and it was a little bit Touch and Go and I told you know and and I I was close to tears because I was just walking around uh because there was a period where I couldn't go into the the NICU and um you called me and I told you and you just said a few words of comfort and then you called me back I think maybe the next three days in a row just to see if I was okay again very small because a lot of people send a WhatsApp or text back then which is great but you know and I was living away from home my parents were in a different country so just that friendly phone call it makes a huge difference again doing things that you would enjoy right there somebody uh doing for you yeah uh in families we have these joyous moments we have a bit uh the challenging moments right the joyous ones we like to share right ah I've got a newborn son how wonderful is that right and then to congratulate somebody the the parents and bring them a bunch of flowers but also to be there a shoulder to cry on ears to listen when things are not all that good yeah right um being far away uh from what used to be home right also influences uh you are actually actively seeking uh that circle of friends that Circle of individuals where you can reach out uh if you need yeah so uh yeah these are very important they are aspects of life and go Way Beyond just business now if I may I want I want you know for for our younger audience members I want to get some takeaways that you can impart in terms of your knowledge and wisdom for those guys that are coming up the ranks of private banking because I I feel there's a lot of people fall into two camps there are those that are happy gol lucky they wait for a tap on the shoulder which is fine um but then there are others that are very very aggressive and you know they're trying to race up the ladder but what would your advice to be to people that are coming up through the ranks so most important no one but you owns your career I love that as simple as that uh nobody's waiting for you there's nothing that you will receive on a silver platter uh so and you can't expect your bosses to know what you want right so seek that conversation express your aspirations hopefully you can actually articulate them you'll be quite shocked Paul how few can actually articulate what they really want hence also that need uh for somebody to Mentor ction H and is that really what you want so make sure you own it yourself you drive it yourself you don't need to put out your elbows and hurt others to advance all right you have some that we have come across yeah uh that shine on the demise of others yes that's not the way to go correct that's not sustainable and in this everchanging world world well maybe I will report to that individual that I used my elbows on prior yeah in private banking uh maybe more General in life as well it's all about making friends and not enemies right create long lasting relationships so coming back to the question for the youngsters and I do feel it's much tougher for them than it was 30 40 years ago right uh a it's so competitive um the need for grades University grades right just to make the first car I told you I would most probably not get a job Meo today yeah uh so the selection criteria is far far tougher uh different in different parts of the world where but if I look here at Singapore it's very very Nuance right yeah uh Global competition now right yes that then comes on top right the the global Mobility so all of a sudden the pool of candidates is not just in your backyard yeah it's actually a cross um so how do I actually submit a CV right that catches your attention because they all look the same I actually look for things that are different right not all that uniform stuff yeah your golden opportunity is at that interview you remember way back then when I had my first conversation uh at that Swiss bank in in Lon yes that most probably could have turned out very differently and maybe I would never have come to Asia H so seize the opportunity in those conversations be clear show your passion show uh the clarity of your thoughts and Minds yeah and if you don't have a yet don't be shy to ask for help whether as a senior an official coach an old teacher an old friend yeah right you feel a lot of people are too proud to do that there's a lot of that right globally and especially in the financial World more broadly in private banking uh uh uh in particular um there's a lot of pride in it right um very often leading them to making the mistake of not asking or not admitting that I don't understand you some of the stuff that we do is highly complex right uh the product Innovation the solutions that we see I'm not shy to say look I don't quite understand this can you please explain yeah it's a little bit cultural as well yes the face issue uh maybe uh the Western and the the European they are a bit more upright in questioning and know uh here we don't like to admit that we don't no M it's also got to do them with respect that Elder and that entire face issue yeah but I always say and that's also the way that I raise my children the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask beautiful the worst attitude is to pretend that you know yeah yeah I think it's interesting because I was saying to my kids yesterday we had a chat in the evening and um I just said look it's it's okay to hate to lose but you can't be afraid to lose cuz that's how we we all learn that's the reality look having a winning mentality nothing's wrong with it on the contrary it's great fun to win 100% um but you can't win all the time yeah and then in defeat in exclamation marks uh take it in your stri right how do I recover from being knocked down how do I stand up again after something uh uh adverse has happened happened yeah I cannot count the number of mistakes I made throughout my career right and there would have been many smaller ones bigger ones but the way that you are measured and most importantly you measure yourself how do I respond to it how do I get up and walk on yeah it's interesting because I I think um a lot of people don't really diagnostically analyze why they failed but also why they why they've won because sometimes if you don't know how to replicate that so I use the analogy say we're driving from here to uh Marine parade and we're coming from the CBD and you go I'm going to go Nicole Highway let's pretend there's a traffic JB okay I'm going to go ECP how does that work and I just find a lot of people don't have that thought process and sometimes maybe you've you've locked out you've fluted but they can't replicate it you know you see also there are lots of learnings throughout the many many years right uh and it basically uh comes to don't be afraid to fail M right if you do do so quickly yeah right and adapt Only Fools repeat over and over again right and we all know the outcome of that have the courage to try something different it didn't work this way well it might work that way and by the way that also might not work right well well look at your career and how much private banking is involved you know particular in Singapore you have toap you have to stay relevant you got to stay ahead of the game it's not easy um what about sales I'm curious cuz for me sales is often in our industry or in most Industries it's a dirty word but the reality is we're all sales people in one way shape or form um what can you share that you've seen top private Bankers do or Banks do to help the Journey of a sales so first of all most all it's a fantastic word yeah agree it's a lovely word and it's a great activity and uh you concluding a sale brings a lot of Joy now you have to make sure that that is done in the proper way yeah so first and foremost client first right really understanding entire aspects also then fairly openly transparently describe what potential risks come with it don't sell for the sake of selling that's not fun yeah and it's very shortlived the entire industry has come under severe pressure because it was sales for the sake of sales m right we go back to 9798 right where we really didn't do the right thing for clients yeah selling products to elderly ladies uh our grandmas right suggesting is the same as a saving booklet that's not a sale uh poll that's cheating yeah not surprising then the regulator rightfully clamped down very heavily and created a framework again here in Singapore to together with the industry actually finding them the best answers right where you today you have your investment suitability standards etc etc your transparency yes you need to be careful that through sales you don't generate a lopsided benefit for the salesperson in our industry it's called the bonus right don't try try to optimize yours on the back of someone else yeah yeah first and foremost it will be shortlived the clients will hate you and not do business with you and the regulator and your employer will have one or two things to say very simple Guidance Do the Right Thing even when nobody's watching yeah and so that counts for sales as well but no sales is a good world it's a lovely activity what did the banks do but I'm just curious because obviously I've serviced the banks but I've never worked in one but say I'm a banker right now now and if I come to you and I say look um I want to enhance my sales skills I'm an introvert I'm very good with the markets and the product knowledge you know typically the most of the banks will they have a system in place how does it evolve yeah so um first and foremost nobody commands all skills to cover uh the whole aspects in an entirety right yeah so again reaching out to colleagues and friends that are there uh to help you now yes you do need to know the technical skills uh sorry the technical aspects of what you want to uh uh sell yeah uh but so am I actually more effective and there are many courses that one can take right yeah whether these are sales techniques how do I overcome uh push backs etc etc yeah um but most probably the best way to do a sale is believe in it yourself yeah if I believe in the product I believe in its benefits I'm self-confident then most probably I'm going to win this yes if I'm hesitating if I am and you are I have seen many types right the client will specifically ask you especially Philip what do you think right and then you need to have a very honest answer yeah um and share your opinion many will turn around say oh you know Papa they're all good right the blue the red the yellow uh actually but maybe you take a third each yeah that often is actually not the right answer Paul blue is an ideal color it matches your eyes no it doesn't this is what I truly believe is the best choice for you that's how you make uh your uh this is how you become the trusted advisor yeah have the courage yes you have rules and regulations within are your firm's policies right where you have to stipulate uh the house view right and your personal view if so asked but you also need to make very clear that the client knows which is which and to be truthful in my 42 years very seldom did I have an idea uh that was different than the so-called hous you right there are nuances H and because I know you I know you intimately well personalize for you that then makes it happy and a good sale I'll tell you a quick funny one so when we started working together without mentioning the name of the person or the bank um the head of HR had arranged for me to meet the CEO and he said you're very very young and it wasn't a compliment I know who the gentleman is that you're referring to and we became great friends in the end but so he looked me up and down and he said I'm going to ask you a question and if you don't answer it well it's the end of the meeting and the two HR ladies in the meeting room were a little bit worried like this is going to go pearshaped and I said no problem he said well how do you deal with what's your definition of success and I said well that's easiest how high you bounce once you reach Rock Bottom nice and um unfortunately I think you might be there right now because I had some problems in the business and then he started laughing and he said well how do you deal with uh mistakes and I said I thought it was just one question he said you've got your retainer it's just out of curiosity and he was an ex risk practitioner I said Zero Tolerance baby and then I smiled but that that was a test in the moment right I I am so happy you actually bring that up right what is your tolerance level yeah and when it comes to rules and regulations Behavior your starting point has to be Zero Tolerance let me give you uh an example so again we both like cars so we're driving fast on the motorway where we're allowed to yeah I can be as focused and careful as I want to be right I that mindset I don't want to make an accident I don't want to the one thing I cannot influence is dust particles making little scratches on my car ah if I don't have that Zero Tolerance that focused mindset at the speed at which I'm going I will have a crash and mostly that is lethal yeah I can paintbrush the scratches uh on my car from the dust particular right and so again very simple analogies uh in your working environment yeah if I don't have a zero tolerance then well is 1% 2% or why not you need to set those limits now that doesn't mean that you don't take any risk at all yeah right you do need to and that's partially also answering your question before when you set your strategy is right what risks do I want to run within the framework of the allowed to actually achieve what I want to achieve yeah there is no such thing as risk- free no life Sports business there's no such thing yeah in order to enjoy success understand those risks how to mitigate one of my favorite sayings what do you believe makes F1 drivers go fast I brakes they have the confidence and the knowledge this car will stop where I need it to stop yes so I can come out of 360k per hour into a corner where I know the car will slow down and help me safely through until I can accelerate again yeah braks make you go faster most often when I call this for the first time people think this guy is now getting a seen Island too old for it speak to the F1 drivers which I've actually had the privilege of doing right that's exactly they are not out there to kill themselves yeah they know the risks and they know how the risks are mitigated yeah that doesn't mean that there won't be any accidents at all you can see every weekend there one or the other who goes off right yeah so interesting know your risks spot on mitigate them now now given that you've been working you know in our industry for such a long time as you move through to the next chapter talk to me a little bit about growth when you how do you see private banking evolving because with AI the regulatory framework changing you know our industry is changing and evolving you know rapidly absolutely first thing is technology or uh AI as we call it today is your friend embrace it y learn as much as you can because it's not going to go away the train is already leaving the station and you need to be on this train or you will be left behind but machines again for a lack of better word will be here to do far better than human beings ever will repetitive mundane things yeah freeing up time for you as a private Banker to spend more time with your clients yeah understand them better don't fear Embrace um it was the same when the internet came it was the same right way back then uh you will not believe it uh when I first started as an apprentice the entire office had one screen and it had those you remember it was this a grayish with a green color right uh the games that you could play was this boring tennis I remember look at where this has evolved to um it is very uh important to embrace this you you take for example portfolio build right I used to do this by hand yeah on a piece of paper then we started to be given simulation tools but it still took you hours today uh there are already these highly sophisticated uh uh U Tools in place that actually within the shortest period of time I will actually get a very very solid uh uh investment proposal that I can share with you yeah uh Way Beyond the days of uh pencil selling again a term that most people actually don't yeah so here you are in a sales meeting yes your piece of paper is upside down yeah and you actually then uh draw a portfolio build right you have your asset classes you have your Curren you do this all by hand yeah and it's turned upside down so the client can see it yeah yes how much time did we actually waste on that yeah right today press of a button you get it and so that's and it's not going to uh go backwards it's going to get machines will never replace the human element in our business no and it's still a very long way out until even with AI they can come up with another aspect of our business that's very dear to my heart uh trust trust Solutions yes I can do portfolios algorithms godness knows what right how do I have a machine compassionately telling you about your next Generation yeah the Legacy that you want to leave for H your families your loved ones what is it that you with the monies that you have earned want to leave behind yeah that human touch most probably is going to be with us for a very very long time and ultimate pul that is the alom yeah private banking that's where it all comes together where together we create a family Charter for the days where we no longer here we keep the money together for the benefit of the family and the designated purpose yeah so that will still be in the hands of humans the hearts of humans uh for quite some time to come let the machines do the other stuff yeah as you said embrace it well PK it's been an absolute pleasure is there anything else that you wanted to cover um just say thank you uh for what was a lovely uh conversation uh everybody out there best of luck in your careers in your lives pursue your love your passion with exactly that with passion dedication beautifully ended Phil appreciated thank you so much thank you it's been a pleasure [Applause] w [Music]

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