One Video, 70K Followers: Jess Whitney Morris's Breakthrough | #102

I did a video doing a DNA test. >> Okay, look at me. I'm not Indian. I'm African. I'm black. >> That blew up my accounts from 30K to over 100K in one week. [music] I am a model. I also run a social media management company and I work in the media as [music] well. >> How many people follow you on Instagram now? >> 140K roughly on Instagram [music] and maybe 110 something on Tik Tok. I came from poverty when I lived in Uganda. I was I was grew up in poverty. My start to life was poverty. In England, it was working class. So, I left home at 16. I took my [music] modeling contract home and I was like, "Daddy, daddy, I've been scared. Oh my gosh." My dad looked to the pages, looked me in the eyes, and just went >> Yeah. >> And it crushed [music] me. Completely crushed me and rip them in half. I could be whoever I wanted to be. >> So, I could start a fresh in every single way. And then I [music] moved to Singapore for a boy who's now my husband. I want to educate Singapore about my culture and my part of the world. >> I love that. [music] >> Morning, Jess. How are you? >> Good morning. I'm very well, thank you. >> Thank you for being here today. I appreciate it. >> Thank you for having me. >> My pleasure. And thanks, by the way, for bringing my my beautiful girls some gifts. >> You could you could see the smile on their faces, right? Your girls are genuinely so great and they're so gorgeous. So well mannered. They're so lovely. >> Yeah, I'm They blow me away. But you know, it's all down to their mom to be honest. >> It's a pleasure to meet them. >> No, great. We're going to have you for dinner. Now, before we get started, I just want you to give a little bit of an introduction as to who you are and then we can unpack your amazing journey thus far in your career. >> I'm Jess Whitney Morris. Um, I am a model. I also run a social media management company and I work in the media as well. Uh I've dabbled in presenting TV presenting as well. Um I I'm in the media space essentially and social media space. >> Brilliant. So we know each other because of your lovely husband Chris who's amazing >> and has been on this podcast talking to you. >> He has and I'm very grateful and his business partner Dom. Um, but I I want to talk about cuz we've got probably quite a lot in common cuz we both grew up in the UK. Yeah. >> You grew up in St. Alburn's. Yes. >> Born and raised there. >> No, I was born in Uganda. >> Okay. >> So, I was born in Uganda and when I was about 5 years old, I moved to England to live with my dad and um from in England uh we lived in a small city called St. Orins which is in Hertfordshire. Yeah. And that's where I th those were my formative years, my high school years essentially, primary high school. >> One of my best friends is from Uganda. His name is Tony Caymba. >> Nice. >> Um he you know what's funny? We we'll come on to this later, but it was he's he's a big black guy >> with a golden heart. And um of all the people I've ever known in my life, he has the most integrity. So one time we were in college in Harrow, that's how I met him. and he had told me that um a couple of guys had mugged him at knife point and he could look after himself but he he just gave them the money and um one day he said that guy mugged me I said that was the guy he goes yeah so I said let's go and get him so I ran over grabbed the guy threw him on the floor and um I remember saying to him give Tony the money it was like and he couldn't remember it was like a year later so this so this guy took out his >> like which one is he >> yeah he couldn't remember right and then I I can't remember the numbers, but um it was something like £10. >> He gave Tony the £10 and then Tony started taking out coins to give him back. I said, "What are you doing?" He goes, "He only stole £850 from me." I said, "What about interest?" And then he said, "God will be dealing with that." >> And I just said, "Wow." I just said, "Really?" And um but anyway, but yeah, one of my best friends, Tony, I got to give him a shout out. So So, so you went to an all girls Catholic school. >> Yes. In St. in Orins. I went to a very strict um all girls school. When I first started at the school, it was actually they had a lot of nuns who were teachers and I remember Mother Theresa actually coming to our school. I remember meeting Mother Theresa. Amazing. >> And she was like at that time like um it was like seeing Beyonce cuz I remember she was a celebrity. Like she really was like she's queen none, you know. >> Yeah. >> And what was it like? Were you the only black girl in school >> or one of the few? >> I was not the only black girl in school, but I remember there were three in the entire school. There were around 600 girls and there were actually we had three in my year. >> Three in my year. Maybe one or two more, but very very few. Like you could count it on one hand. Yeah. >> The amount of black girls in that school. >> It is interesting because like the school that I went to, I'm only half Chinese, but I was the only Chinese boy. >> Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. In Harrow. >> Yeah. In Harrow. So, I grew up in South Hall till about 12. >> Um, and I always joke about this, but on the street that I lived on, there were 110 houses. There were only two non-br families >> which, you know, they were all Indian, Pakistani. >> I was going to say South Yeah. >> You know, so really real migrant area. There was a Jamaican family in my family and then I moved to Harrow and there were a lot of Asians there as well, but it was a little bit more populated. So, if you look to my friends, it was like United Colors of Beniton, right? And I love that. But what I don't know about you, I what I found is by the time I got to 16 when people started going to college, people started hanging around with their own clicks. So all the black guys hung out with the black guys. >> Really? >> Yeah. But in high school it really wasn't like that. Then things changed cuz you can do what you want, you know. >> No, it wasn't like that for me. I think I've always been the black girl. >> Okay. >> In growing up actually. You say that when I got older, yes, I did find my black girl community. Definitely, but only when I moved to London when I was older. But in >> No. >> So, what what was young Jess like in school? >> Oh my goodness. I was >> I would say I was a terror, but not the type of terror that you think. Okay. >> My school was so strict, and I'm not somebody who has ever liked being told what to do. I grew up in a very strict African household and my school was also strict, but I knew at school I could get away with it more than I could at home. Okay? >> So, I'd be the naughty girl who like my reports would say talks a lot in class. Okay? >> So, I was very disruptive in class cuz I was the chatty I was the chatty girl, but I couldn't express myself that much at home. So, I did it at school. >> So, when I say I was a terror, I wasn't >> You were naughty. >> I wasn't bunking. Yeah, I wasn't like I wasn't I wasn't crazy, but I would be the one who >> got put on report for talking. >> This is talking. Do you know what I mean? Now you make your money talking and engaging in front of the camera. Exactly. Which >> so it worked out for you. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Were you Were you very studious? Were you into sport? What were you passionate about? >> I was not studious. I was My dad wanted me to be stious and I wasn't. I was always a creative. I was an athlete at school. I would do um I was really good at sports. I loved every sport and most especially athletics. So, I was put in the athletics teams. Okay. >> And I'd win gold medals. And >> what events did you do? >> Hurdles was my main event. Relay as well. I did some high jump as well, but I wasn't as good at high jump, so we had to cut that one out. But it was always hurdles and relay. And I remember it was hurdles was the first event. >> Yeah. starting in the tournaments because you know you had the tournaments where the schools are the schools in the county would compete against each other >> and you got to pull the hurdles up first and then clear them before the rest of the event. >> Yeah. I didn't think of it that way. So do hurdles and relay was always last. >> And you did 100 hurdles was it? >> Uh 100 meter hurdles. I think it when I started it was like I definitely wasn't it definitely wasn't 100 meters actually. It was less cuz we were kids. >> Yeah. But you loved it. >> Oh my gosh. I loved it so much. >> I loved And then you know what I >> I think growing up in the UK and you know I love the UK although I I don't think I'd ever move back there >> was just you got to do different things >> you know like just go out and do things and I I find cuz my kids have been raised primarily in Singapore it's it's different >> you know so I don't I I miss that part of it. >> So what happened you finished high school? Yes. >> Then what did you do >> after I finished high school? What did I do? I feel like I blocked that part of my life. I don't know why I go blank when I think about that. Well, well, I know we discussed this off camera. You went to Westminster University. >> Yes, I did, but not straight away. Okay. I did work. So, I moved to London after secondary school. I moved to London from St. Orbins and I worked for a bit. I was one of those um Abberrombi Hollister. Yeah. Oh, you did both of them? >> I did. Yeah, I did both of them. I did a few Hollisters and then eventually I moved to because I was living in North London and then I moved to central well I moved to work in central London the big Abberrombi one >> and then the new Hollister which they they put on the close to the big Abberrombi the one in Regent Street. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So yeah I was one of those girls. >> Wow. And then and then how did you go from there to I know you you went to university but you didn't finish university. >> No. Yeah. But but talk because why I think that's an important part to pack out is is sometimes you you choose something and it's not always for you. >> Yes. >> But at least you didn't you know you didn't spend three or four years there and then decide. >> Actually I did. >> Did you? >> I did. I did. I So my story is interesting. I didn't grow up in the very in the most secure home environment. So I'd always say I pretty much raised myself. So I left home at 16 and I've always had my aunt and uncle there. Um, but they didn't necessarily raise me, but I left um my like structural home very young. So, I was always taking care of myself. So, I couldn't go to university because I had to figure out what am I going to eat? How do I even apply for university? So, I didn't go to uni until I was a lot later, like early 20s, >> okay, >> maybe 20, 21, >> okay? >> And so when I finally decided to go to university, I was working two jobs. So, I was doing the Abberrombi Hollister thing. Um I think I was at Abberrombi shop at that time and I had another side job. I think I was one of those girls at one point who was given the leaflets cuz they paid like £20 an hour then and that was a lot of money. A lot of money. >> Yeah. So uh I do that on the side and my you know if my friend had a job here and there so I was working a lot plus my the home where I lived in South South London my campus was in Harrow that was a 2hour journey every time I wanted to go to a lecture. So, by the time I would finish work late because I finished my second job, I'd go home and then have to um sleep, make food for yourself, everything. Wake up really early for like an 8:45 a.m. lecture cuz they were always really early >> and the trains you can't predict. So, I'd be late and whatever. So, then by the time we got to final year, >> I was spent. >> You were you were wrecked. Where's the campus in? I'm from Har, but I don't even know where. >> I need to remember. My memory is so >> Is it near the train station? It's not right. >> No, it's not. >> So, you get off at Harrow on the Hill. Did you get off at Har? >> Yes, it was a walk actually. I remember I walked, but it was a long walk. >> I can't believe I don't know where Westminster is cuz my brother went there and I still my campus, the Harrow one, >> I think. So, it was a walk. >> I'm not 100% sure. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But it wasn't easy cuz the 2 hours and it wasn't it's 2 hours of like if you miss one train you have to wait like 40 minutes for the next train. That's what made it 2 hours. >> But isn't it mad it's like you know both you know you were living or sorry commuting to Harrow I lived in Harrows a small world right >> honestly. Yeah. >> Yeah. I I have to say I love growing up in Harrow. I love my high school. Um I didn't like boys. >> No no no I I I like girls way too much to go to a boy school. I went to Whitmore High School which was an amazing high school. People always say, "Oh, you went to Harrow. They they think I went to Harrow school where everyone wore top hats." I said, "No, no." >> Yeah. The posh. >> Yeah. I said, "No, no. The guys from my school would beat up and mug the guys from that school." >> Oh, you were those guys? >> Yeah. I wasn't, but they, you know, they were, put it like this. By the time I finished high school, um, two girls already had kids or a kid. One was pregnant. And it was like, it was just different. But I just love my eclectic high school. I'm still friends with a lot of the people from high school. I don't get to see him very often, but every time I go back, I try to get together, you know, 30 or 40 people >> really. >> Yeah. And they're from different walks of life from like primary school, middle school, high school, college, uni, and you know, people are very gracious. They all come out, >> right? So that's amazing. >> Yeah. It's cool because Tara, my wife, always says I'm Billy, no mates. Cuz she feels I don't have a lot of friends here. >> Because Singapore is a transient place. A lot of people come and go. >> Exactly. >> And after a while, you kind of give up, >> right? >> For sure. I've already given up. It's it happens. But I've got to say through the podcast I've realized, you know what? I can make new friends >> and make an effort. And I, you know, I think it's important. So I've I've revisited that thought process. Like 3 years ago, I thought I'm I'm not going to make any more new friends. But, you know, a few years later, I've completely changed my opinion on that. >> But you've it's not like you you're not actually Billy know me. It's just your mates are just not here. >> But your community is back in England. >> That's the thing. And actually, you know, I'm old enough that Facebook was, you know, we used to use it a lot. It's dead now, right? It's dying out. But that's why I would post on Facebook because you get to connect with people. So I will still message people on their birthdays, hey, how you doing? Stuff like that. But um I miss that, you know, you do miss those things. So then what happened? So what did you study at Westminster? >> Journalism. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But I dropped out in I think it's final semester of final year where I was like >> I just cannot like with the did we even have an exam? I think we had one exam and this huge dissertation and I'm doing two jobs cuz you know I have to eat and make rent and you know find somewhere that I could you know keep my home for me >> which was only at that time just uh a room in someone's house sharing with grown adult men. >> Scary. >> Yeah. So >> that's scary. >> Yeah. So that kind of like situation by then I just thought I can't do both. Something has to give, but I still need to work, right? So let me just continue working and making money and figuring that out. >> I'm so glad you shared that cuz I also work full-time throughout uni >> and I didn't know anyone else that did >> and it completely changes the pressure because at the end of the day it was almost like university was secondary. It was almost like paying the bills is the primary focus. Right. I didn't I couldn't go to like I've never done a freshers week >> never I didn't live on campus >> so I didn't get the university experience I developed a group of friends who were really great >> and I could help me with homework actually the boys I was hanging out with are really really fantastic okay >> and they were help me out with homework and my work and through the process and the the university was really understanding um but it all just got too much but yeah I didn't I didn't actually get a university experience I didn't get to do like the UK binge drinking scene, you know, >> I don't know if you were missing much, but >> So, I'd hear all the stories afterwards. Oh, this guy got with this girl and everyone's this and I missed out. So, then when you get into groups at uni >> Yes. >> you're they've already bonded. So, I'm like, for me, it was like school. You go home and you come back. For them, they're building a family community, all these tight friendship groups. >> Yeah. You're not hanging around after campus. You got to go. >> I had to go home to go and work. Yeah. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. you know. So then, so then um when did fashion find you? >> Fashion has always had me. >> I love it. >> Always. I was speaking to your daughter earlier and she's only 11, right? >> She's only 11. >> And she's already you you said you shared a really nice story. She's already cutting up your t-shirts to turn into clothes. >> That was me. >> Love it. >> So I used to um the Argos catalog. You know what that is? >> That's how I learned to read. I love the Argos catalog. >> So I used to >> explain explain to everyone what the Argos catalog was. I was talking about this in another podcast. The Argos catalog is a catalog of um it's a department store in book form. >> Yeah. >> It's a big thick like magazine type thing. >> I would obsessively go through. Yeah. You could [clears throat] buy tons of different things through the C. How do you remember how you bought the stuff? Did you call? >> Um you had to call the number. >> I think you'd call up. You'd book it. You'd give them the code number and then you go and collect >> the item that you wanted. Yes. And it would have like toys, bedding, um, home wear, cooking wear, and it would have fashion. >> Okay? >> So, it would be like pajamas for kids or like lingerie for your mom, you know, or ' 90s for your mom. And I'd go to the fashion section and I'd start drawing out the clothes that I see. And I didn't really realize that's fashion. I just knew this is what I want to do. I want to look like those girls. I want to have that body, have that face, but I also want to wear what they're wearing. Wow. And I'd watch fashion TV. I just have it. And fashion TV is one of the most boring channels ever. Is it? But I'd see the models over and over again just walking and I try and sketch >> imprinted in your mind. >> Yeah. >> That's so cool. >> When I was really really young. Yeah. >> You know, it's it's funny like with Avano um because she hasn't found a sport yet where the other two they're they're on the the national teams of their respective sports. But um >> that's incredible. Yeah, it's it's it's you know, it's a lot of work. You know, they're passionate about it. But with with Avana, um I want to embrace whatever she's trying to do, right? So, I have been a guinea pig for a long time doing makeup. >> Really? >> Yeah. She goes, "Can you wear this wig?" Cuz you know, my wife's auntie left a wig back and I just said, "Oh, no." But it happens, right? You just do. And what makes me laugh is I see The Rock getting makeup from his his younger daughter. And it's the pictures. >> Yeah. It's it's hilarious. But in fact, we were in Great World City a few weeks ago and there's a wig shop there of all things where I've never seen a wig shop before and they said, "Daddy, I dare you to go in there and do a fitting." So I walk in and the two women, their eyes like that. They're thinking [laughter] I'm their ideal candidate. Then we're putting on their hair and the girls are combing and I said, "Oh my god." And then the worst thing was I said, "What is this made of?" And they said, "Oh, 50% is synthetic. The other 50% is human hair." And I took it off. I just I took it off. >> Oh, wait. It is human. Yeah. Who laughing at I don't know what I thought it was. I just thought, you know, this is like Silence of the Lambs or something. It's gone wrong. >> No, people sacrifice their hair sometimes. >> It's crazy. No, but know the the thing that I've seen with her and that's why she was so excited about you coming was she's immersed in in, you know, just she puts on makeup. She's better at makeup than her mom and her older sister. >> I'm not surprised it's that generation. >> Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? >> So, so then so then and then what was your first step into doing it professionally? uh fashion. I got It's crazy. I got scouted to work for Abbercrombie because you get scouted >> because you got you got to have that look, right? >> Yeah. So, I got scouted to work for Abocrombi. Wait, did I get scouted? I got scouted to do modeling. Okay. >> First and my dad was really strict actually. So, I remember the day I was walking around central London. I took my modeling contract home and I was like, "Daddy, daddy, I've been scout." Oh my gosh. You know, cuz every girl wants to do modeling. Every young girl, my dad looked at the pages, looked me in the eyes, and just went, >> "Yeah." >> And it crushed me. Completely crushed me and ripped them in half. >> Need help with LinkedIn optimization? Visibility decides your career. That's what we built. Quintessential career coaching. Check out our intelligence platform today. And then when I turned 18 and left the house and I got scouted again, I was like, "Oh, he can't stop me now." >> Yeah. >> And then I don't know, I don't think I got scouted actually for Abraham or Hollister. I think I just applied. >> Yeah. >> And they said yes. >> Okay. >> And when you go there, you realize all the other workers are models, like real models, cuz I didn't actually model when when I got scouted. But then when I'm in that environment, you've got models, you've got actors, you've got people in that industry all the time. And they were so good at Abberu because they wanted to hire like real models, you know, or people with the look of course. >> They would let you in a modeling world. You have your castings, your auditions. >> They let you go, right? >> Yeah. They'd let you go. So you just say, "I can't do the shift today or I have to uh do you know, let me come like 2 hours late. I've got a casting." You didn't even really need to prove it. You just like, "I'm going." And then you go, they do it and then they come back and then you see those girls on like billboards and this and this, but everybody still needs a side job, right? So that was >> Abocrombi. >> Wow. I didn't know all of that. >> Yeah, >> I follow Mike Thirsten on on um social media who's a he's a fitness influencer and he always talks about Hollister where he used to work. I didn't realize that's what it was until you just told me. >> Yeah. >> I just thought it was a clothes shop, but it is. But it's like No, it's so much more. >> Exactly. You you put all these guys and girls on display. Yeah, >> huge. And then and then when did because modeling as as a business is notoriously difficult because from from the little that I've seen, you know, unhealthy eating, you know, there's a there's a little bit of bullying. It's tough, right? It's a really tough industry. >> The bullying surprisingly doesn't didn't for me come from the other models. It came from the industry itself. >> Yeah. And bullying is a very strong word. is just your entire ethos. Everything you're about is based about is based on your appearance alone. Yes. >> So before they could even hear you, they look at you and they judge you and then they decide whether you're worthy enough to be heard. >> Okay. >> That made it tough and that was a process that you have to get around >> and you have to work hard to be heard because all they're doing is looking at you up and down, right? >> Yeah. >> Um you're a clothes hanger. No one really cares what you think of the clothes. You're not supposed to say anything about the clothing when you walk into set. >> Um >> it's it's you're a prop. You're not it's not a you at all unless you are >> the person selling the clothes in the sense of like you're Gigi Hadid, you're Bella Hadid, you are Naomi Campbell, then it's about you because you're the one that's actually going to really sell the clothes. But if you're a no-name and you're a model, nothing, you're the least important person there. You're the most transient person. They could find another one in a second. The clothes are the most important. The photographer is very powerful. Very important. >> The um hair and makeup person, they're the ones who are going to make you look the way the client needs you to look. >> So, you're just the vehicle. >> You're just the vehicle. So, you don't get a say in anything. You don't like your hair and makeup, shrug. >> Tough. >> Tough. >> Tough. >> You just do what you need to do. >> But I would imagine you got tough because of the industry, right? >> For sure. Yeah. I mean, uh the >> When was when was your first modeling shoot? How old were you? >> I think it was about 18, 19. >> Really? >> Yeah. I don't even remember what it was for. It wasn't anything great. >> Actually, I've just now that you're talking about, I've just now I ask you that question, I realized actually the uh Kaden and Avana have done modeling shoots. So, Avana, who's the 11-year-old, she did a modeling shoot where she was there was a big billboard probably as high as the ceiling in the Paragon for 2 years. Wow. >> There were three kids and then >> it was really bad, but none of us had gone for about 6 months. I don't know what happened. We And we'd never seen it. >> Yeah. And then I went to the paragon one day and I thought, "Isn't there meant to be a picture of Avana here?" I don't know why we just cuz we were traveling or whatever. And I and I said, "Wow." And she was in the middle and I just said, "She's a superstar." You kept taking pictures and she was embarrassed. She didn't want to tell any of her friends cuz >> really when she's older. My goodness. >> I know, right? And then and then Caden was he got to do a modeling shoot and um I was really blown away. And then I just said, "Mate, I saw the picture of him and the girl." >> Yeah. And I just said, >> I think I think you're better looking than the girl. I think you look amazing. Right. And but he was too shy to post a lot of it. >> Yeah. >> You know, so but it's you have to lean into these things. >> You have to lean in. Yeah. For sure. >> And then and then after that, so what happened then? How did your whole move into doing social media change? Cuz that's that's really how I know you, right? >> Yeah. So I was working I I developed a career that grew very slowly in London. I did mostly ecom. So I was like I'm 5'7 which in Asia is tall but in UK is actually very short for a model. Uh so I didn't do a lot of runway. >> What's normal for a female model? >> Normal what they look for? You mean 5'9 is still short? >> Really? >> It's runway is like 511. 510 they'll accept you. Maybe 510 is the base. 510 5'11. >> So I mean I never got a call up cuz I'm 5'6 and a half. That's why I didn't get called and a half. Listen, when you're 5'6, you [laughter] take the >> half. Yeah. But I felt like when I was you stand next to my uh my other model girlfriends, >> it was like this. And I hated it. So I'd wear and I'd be wearing flats. We'd go on a night out. They're wearing flats. I'd wear my tallest heels. And I still couldn't get to their height. >> Yeah. >> And it I hated it so much. Just the height difference. But here I'm like a giant. >> Yeah. It's [laughter] funny. >> I love it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then and then so then talk to me what was your breakthrough and how did you come to Singapore? >> Okay. So um I I did I was working I was working quite well in London and then I moved to Singapore for a boy who's now my husband >> and he really um >> so you met so hold on hold on where did you meet in the UK? >> We met in the UK. >> How >> uh >> can you tell us the story? >> Yes I Chris I've told I've told the story so many times we were at an event. So I was working event cuz my friend used to um host events and she'd get her girlfriends to like to work the events. So to talk to the guests, you know, to serve drinks, that sort of thing. So I was working as I was I was working and he was a plus one of one of the the guests who would come. >> Okay. And I remember trying to talk to him in a work capacity and he was so rude to me and mid-sentence with what I thought was an American accent. He's like, "Look, I'm really sorry, but I'm flying to New York tomorrow. I got to go." >> And I'm just like, "So would you like to?" And I was and he's like, "No, look, I'm sorry. Sorry. I have to go." >> So I was like, "Oh." And then he literally just turned and left. And I remember he turned and walked up the stairs and left. I thought, >> "Wow, >> what? Who is this guy?" So then I went to my girlfriend. That guy is so rude. >> He's so rude. I started hilarious. bitching about him. He's so rude. And they were like, "Who? Who? Who?" I was like, "The other guys start to describe him." So now he was the talk of that situation cuz I made such a big deal out of it. So then the next event I didn't I didn't go. And one of my girlfriends like, "Oh, by the way, that guy was there." I was like, "Really? What's he like?" It's like, "Oh, we all went out afterwards. Oh my gosh, really? I've got him on Instagram. Really?" So then I pulled up his Instagram on her phone and I'm trying to decide if he was good-looking or not. Of course, he's one of those guys who doesn't post pictures of himself. He just it was food and landscape, I remember. And all I had was this tiny little picture of him on the top of the mountain on his profile. So trying to like screenshot and like >> this is an insight into how women think cuz it's >> 100%. So I was like, was he even good-looking for us to talk about this much? And >> you were clearly intrigued though, right? >> Very very intrigued. Right. >> But but knowing Chris, he probably didn't do it on purpose. >> No, he didn't. But that by the way in England there's a saying just in life in general but especially when it comes to chatting up girls which is terrible. Treat them nice, pay the price. Treat them mean keep them keen. >> Isn't it man? >> It worked. It shouldn't work but I guess it kind of kept me in. >> He did treat you mean but it was just not >> he was just off. All the other guys were very receptive to everything I was saying. >> They were probably trying to chat you out. Half the guys. And this guy was like not even interested. >> Interested in the one who didn't care. Can you imagine? >> I love it. There's a lesson for that. And so then he came to another event, this one I was at, and he came up. Do you remember >> No. No, I do. I do. No, I do. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> He was in and he was up the stairs and I remember he came up the stairs and I was walking this way and I kind of saw him and I was like, >> that's it. >> And I turned around, went to the toilet and I'm like fixing my hair. >> So now you know you're thinking like, he's here. He's here. So then now I know I want to talk to him and I'm just going to be more firm. Went back downstairs, sat on the sofa. I had big curly hair and then I walked down cuz I'm working. So, you know, I don't want anything. I'm just working. So, anytime I talk to him, I'm working. It's fine. So, he said from his perspective, he'll sat on his phone and my big curly hair went over his phone and he says, and he looks up and I say, "What you doing?" And then from that moment on, I sat next to him and we just kept talking. >> Beautiful. >> And it just never ended. And we took each other's numbers. And I always tell people the thing that made Chris stand out, I had this exboyfriend who's 10 years older than me. He was awful. Always had this horrific pull on me and we'd broken up because he was just so toxic. And but he had the pull on me and I remember Chris and I were dating maybe a month and it wasn't even really official. It was just kind of like going on dates and getting to know each other, enjoying each other's company. And this guy messages me or calls me and he's like, "I want you back." So I'm like, "Okay, I'm weak. I'm young and weak." So, I tell Chris and I'm like, "Look, I'm so sorry. I think I'm going to get back on my ex-boyfriend." And this man on the phone says to me, "No, you're not." Said, "Excuse me, you're going to be mine." >> Wow. >> I was so my heart was like, "Oh my goodness." Said, "Okay." >> Yeah. He's >> called the other guy. And I was like, "Yeah, no. >> Good. >> Absolutely not." And I decided, "A man who knows exactly what he wants is the kind of man I want to be with." Well, the thing about Chris, and this is, you know, I met Chris and we couldn't talk properly because there was an event, >> but when we did talk, it was very we were very engaged. >> Yeah. >> And then we were talking about things that we liked. And I can't remember if I said it to him or he said to me, but I said, "Let's go and have a, you know, cigar and a whiskey and catch up." And then we just kept talking because he's so genuine. >> Yes. >> You know, because he's genuine. It's a real conversation. >> I call him pure. >> Yeah. He pulls you in. He's pure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I love that story. So then how did you guys So what happened to Singapore? He moved here for work and you came with him. >> He's always So he's international. He was born in New Zealand and then never lived there and his family moved to so many different countries. So he's always he got so used to growing up living in different countries. He never stayed in one place for too long. I'm a homebody. And so he'd always talk about moving country. And he said the only reason he stayed in England for so long was because of me. But he he was itching to be somewhere else. and he's always wanted to live in Asia. Always wanted to live in Asia. >> So then he'd pitch it to me slowly and I'm like dude in my head China and he's like no there are different Asian countries. So then he said Singapore we never hear about Singapore in England. Never ever. >> You got people don't realize that you know you say when I told people I was I was interviewing to come to Singapore where Singapore they thought it was in China. >> Same even my cousins were like why would you move to China >> and I'm like it's no it's Singapore. We never ever hear about it. So my only reference and the thing that sold me honestly was Crazy Rich Asians the movie [laughter] cuz I thought I'm going to walk in it's going to be fabulous. It's just going to be like crazy rich people and because they're rich I'm going to be rich too you know. >> Oh my goodness. >> So we did come here a few times. It took him two years to convince me. >> Okay. >> And then when I decided he was like okay let's do it. And he's he's an action man. So he makes things happen. >> Got it done. >> Yeah. So he got it done and then I moved. So I always say I move for a boy. So when you arrived here, you had no network, >> no network, >> no anything, >> no friends. >> So how did you how did you set about going up? Because cuz that's that's got to be really part of your story, right? Very challenging. >> Oh, my first month here, I hated it. It was so hot, so humid. I didn't know how to process it. My like very English body or like um appetite for temperature was completely skewed. So uh the first month I was like, I want to go back. It's not it. Yeah. I couldn't breathe anymore. I was the opposite. I was like, I love it. I love the I hate I hate the cold. So, >> so do I, ironically. Then I got used to it very quickly. And then I started to love it. I love the nature here. I love the birds. I love the walking. You see a monkey, a monitor. It's amazing. >> That's the thing. A lot of people that grow up in Singapore, I think they overlook it. And then I hear some people saying this is a concrete jungle. I said, listen, they have spent a lot of money >> building all the And where I live in Bima, it's just stunning. Like you just 5 minutes walk and I'm in the nature reserve. Exactly. I love it. It's it's like walk Yeah. It's like walking into David Atenburgh every day for me. >> Absolutely. So what So then what what did you do? How did you start building this? >> I started so I wanted to make myself useful. I was in a position where I was very fortunate. Chris put me in a position where I didn't have to work. Okay. >> Um so he was he's supported me for a very long time which is really important to my life journey and um I wanted to make myself useful. So I was trying to find endeavors what I could where I could put myself and I ended up volunteering at a school for um less advantaged students. So um what is the right terminology? I'm so I'm still learning the right terminology but neurode divergent students and the school's called the guild in Singapore. It's an international school for neurody divergent students. And I say students because >> there's no real like age limit. So you could have a student who's 24 who's got the mental capacity of a 5-year-old. >> Wow. >> So um the founder of the school, the co-founder of schools, um founded by a husband and wife, uh Jane Nadaraju and her husband and they were really common. So I met Jane at a party and an event and I told her about it. She said, "You can come and you can come and help out at my school." And she says, "You're a model. Come do a fashion show at my school for a few weeks." Amazing. >> So, I helped coach the um school fashion show um the Christmas fashion show. It wasn't a fashion show, it was a Christmas show and a segment which was a fashion show. And I enjoyed it so much I asked her, "Can I continue?" So, twice a week it started. I'd go Monday and Thursday and I'd volunteer my time. Um Monday was full day, Thursday were half day with and I'd sit with the students. I'd help them with their classes. I'd help like >> Must been so rewarding. >> I loved it so much. I love my class. She she put me in a class which I guess was like the the most it was called um the the students who were the most capable to transition to an everyday working environment. Okay. >> Because the other students unfortunately because of their ability or disability they would essentially never be able to really assimilate >> yeah to our our kind of lifestyle. So these students were more likely to and they had like part-time jobs some of them. So um I got to know them so well and they love they call me Miss Jess and I knew them all by name. It was a very small class maybe 12 students and it was so wonderful. I really really enjoyed it. >> Amazing. >> Yeah. And then >> and then how do you start building cuz you've you've now been in Singapore for how many years? >> Four years. >> And you've built up a significant social media following. How many people follow you on Instagram now? >> 140k roughly on Instagram and maybe 110 something on Tik Tok. >> Listen, I've got 700. So when you just start talking about thousands, hundreds of thousands is amazing. >> Do you know how it happened? >> No. Tell me. >> One video. >> One video. >> Okay. So I started with 3,000 on in on Instagram here cuz I didn't do I I was a model. I wasn't social media. >> Yeah. And then I started to work slowly in the background because I thought if I can't do modeling so I had to not essentially give up modeling. I did work I did have an agency here but it's not that the industry here to work is nowhere near London and the London rates and London cadence of work at least once a week. Here it's once every 3 months if you're lucky. >> So the cadence is a lot slower. >> Yes. You're not it's not really working. So I thought social media is the easiest best transition. So then I somehow managed to get myself to 30K which I thought was amazing. >> Yeah. >> And in one video and in this one video I talked about something that was happening organically in my life. In Singapore when I walked around I noticed people thought I was Indian. >> Yeah. So, I noticed I was getting a very receptive um the workers for instance, the um they would look at me in a certain way and I thought I think they're curious about your Yeah. Chris didn't Chris didn't understand it. He didn't believe me. >> Yeah. >> And then slowly um people when I'm talking to new people, they just instantly assume I'm Indian. And I'd say, "No, I'm black." So, you don't have any Indian in you. I had straight hair as well. Said, "No, I'm black." And I'd be surprised. Then it transitioned to the internet and people would be would start commenting about the Indian girl, whatever. Essentially, I made a video and I was like, I'm not Indian. >> Okay, look at me. >> I'm not Indian. I'm African. I'm black. >> Yeah. It didn't even occur to me that someone would have thought you were Indian. But but you know, because in Singapore, there aren't a lot of black people. Right. >> Exactly. >> And and you know, there aren't a lot of black people. I tell people, we're all in the same group chat. >> Yeah. And there were about uh almost a thousand maybe 800 people in that. >> You reminded me about what's his name? Ali. Who's that comedian? Sasha Baron Cohen. What's his name? Ali. >> Ali G. >> Ali G. And he goes, "Is it cuz I is black?" Sorry. It just made me thinking that we just [laughter] said that. >> And so when people I made this video and I decided I have to prove to people because I don't believe that I'm not Indian. Yeah. >> Let me do a DNA test. >> Wow. I did a video doing a DNA test that blew up my accounts from 30K to over 100K in one week. >> I've got to see this video. Really? That's >> And all I say is, "Look at me. I'm black. I'm not Indian. Let me do a DNA test and show you." >> The discourse in the comments was massive. I had the black community pulling me in saying, >> "Of course she's not. Of course she's black. Of course she is." And the Indian community saying, "No, she's one of us." They were calling me names like >> uh it was actually quite funny. They were calling me like Pua Jess, you know, the Indian community. They were like, "No, she's one of us." The black community was like, "How dare you? She's one of us." And >> oh my goodness, that's hilarious. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> And people waited one month for the results. >> Really? >> So the following stayed because they really wanted to know the results and the results took one month. So then when the results came in, I'm 10% Arab. [laughter] >> I love those tests. Yeah, it's different from what everyone thinks. >> Yeah. So, I didn't have a drop of Indian in me. They they convinced me that maybe I have a drop somewhere cuz in Uganda there's a big Indian community which people don't realize. >> So, um yeah. Um 10 9% I think it was um they said Middle East. Yeah. >> Middle Eastern. We didn't >> these DNA tests are so funny because like my half which is Irish. Yeah. >> Half of that so 25% of of my bloodline is meant to be you know Scandinavian. So obviously the Vikings and stuff and the same with my wife, you know, so her DNA test was very different and it's um but apparently over time it will become more refined because it's based on the database the pool of the people that sign up to do it. But but what makes me laugh is you know you have all these racists you know like the difference between the English and the German. You do your DNA test I'm half German, you know, it's just it's different, isn't it? We all bleed the same red color. That's the bottom line. >> Yeah. But that's I tell people I got it shot up in from one video and I thought well now it's time to monetize. >> So then what did you start doing? How did you start building your brand at this point? And then >> I started to lean more into it. >> The thing about social media is there's no >> there's no guide book really. >> I guess there's no rule book. You can guide your way in. The only way you get in is by doing. Doing fail fast, reiterate, try again. That's literally what you do. So, I was trying to figure out what people want. How do I want to be on social media? How do I want to be perceived on social media and perceived in real life? And I was telling my friend because I moved to a new country, I could be whoever I wanted to be. So, I could start a fresh in every single way. Nobody knows me. If I decided I'm going to be Jim Bob the tattooist, I could be Jim Bob the tattooist. You know, there's no one here is going to say, "No, you're not." >> Love it. >> Right. so I could re reinvent myself. I just I think I just evolved through that transition. >> You know, you know, um what I love about you is the girls told you cuz I was watching your wedding video with Chris and I I watched it specifically before we went to renew our vows and I thought, "Oh, I'll have a little look." And then it's such a well-made video. It's a there's a story >> behind it, like the beginning, middle, and end. But what I love about you is you love to dance. You love to just be yourself. You just, you know, you roll into things. And I just think that's lacking in life. People are so afraid to try >> self expression. >> Do you know what I mean? Just go out and do it. >> Yeah. >> Right. And that's why I think it's probably one of the many reasons, but that's got to be a key reason why, you know, you've been so successful because people can see the real you. It's authentic. >> Yes. I I worry sometimes I don't portray that as much on camera, which is my like that's the thing I know I need to do as much. I don't show the full personality cuz I think >> see in the video clips you can see it the pictures >> in my wedding. Yeah. >> Yeah. Pictures are hard to see but that and that was in North Islands in New Zealand. >> Yeah. Yeah. North Island. >> It was st I was trying to work out where it was. I showed my wife it because I was watching I was just thinking wow cuz you know in researching you coming here but um that blew me away cuz we had a beautiful wedding. Your wedding was stunning. >> Thank you. Thank you. Really really stunning. It was really um we were very intentional about like we only had 45 people including me and him. >> Yeah. Love it. >> At the wedding. >> Yeah. Ours was 50. I get it. You know >> this is the very very intentional people that you want that were there. >> That's all that matters, right? Those are the people that care and want to be there or spend the money to travel there. My friend said to me, "You want people at your wedding who are not just there for the free food or for the judgment, but who are there to pour into your marriage cuz marriage is such a sacred vow. So, you want the people who are really going to want that for you." >> Yes. >> And the second she said that to me, I was like, "Well, this person, this person go, this person could go. These are the people that I know are there to pour their great their like warm godly blessings into our union." I love that. You know, and now like we were talking when you arrived, my my daughter's friends were here as well. And what you can see, you know, in Singapore, they call it rojack. Everything's mixed. >> Yeah. >> Right. And I never even heard of the term Eurasian. Rojac. So it's type of food. It mean it means a mixture of things. >> I like that. >> So if you if you look at the girls that were here, one of the girls, Emily, she's mixed. So she's half Cameroonian, half Indian, Singaporean. What did you call it? You called it >> uh blian. >> Yeah. Black and Asian. >> Yeah. I've never [clears throat] heard that. It's the first time I've heard that. The other girl is she's half Caucasian. Yeah. >> Half Chinese Singaporean. So like kind of mix them up like me. And then there's my daughter. And I just love it. And then what I really love is that all these girls play sports. They're very fit and healthy. Cuz when I grew up, not that many girls worked out. And even now, um, a couple of years ago, Talia, my 17-year-old, she was saying, "I don't want to work out too much. I don't want to become too muscular." And I said, "First, it's not that easy to become muscular." Yeah. Um, and and the definition of what a woman is today, it's evolving. It's different 20 years ago. So, I said, "Be you, be strong, be dynamic." >> Um, but then you got to see that, which I'm really glad. >> Yeah. I love that they do sport. >> Yeah. I love absolutely love it. So, talk about also what you're doing with companies and brands because you're doing their social media content now. >> Yes. Yes. So, I've transition. I've learned so much about um social media, how it works. And I saw a gap in Singapore of people who really they have great products like great fashion brands, great beauty brands, great lifestyle brands, but when you go on social media, their social media really lacks its presence and they don't know what to do with it. >> So then I decided I know what to do with this. I know how you could make this better. Cuz what a lot of sales people here don't do, people with brands or people with any kind of company, they don't realize the first thing you do as a person is go on someone's social media to essentially look at what they're doing and validate whatever work they're doing. >> True. >> That's the first place that you go when you say, "What is this?" Nowadays, it's not even can I have your number? It's can can I have your social media? So, let me check you out first really before I can commit to having your number. Let me judge you on their first. >> I never thought of it like that. You're spot on. You're absolutely right. Yeah. >> And if you go on there like um so as a when I as I transition to doing social media and working with brands and doing brand deals >> [snorts] >> um they they send you they send you products and then you look at their social media, right? And a lot of these brands were smaller brands before I started to work with like the Huda Beauty, Charlotte Tilbury, the bigger like fashion beauty brands. You do get the smaller brands who say, "Can you do this for me in exchange for a free product or whatever, >> or you get the lifestyle brands who ask you to do it? Come get laser hair treatment in exchange for blah blah blah." And you look at the social media and I had to say to some of these some of these brands, look, >> even if I was Mr. beast. You know, >> the number one YouTuber in the world if people don't know >> exactly number one the social media person in the world. The first thing people are going to go to is your social media and your social media is lacking ABCDE E. >> You don't you barely even know what you do. So, they're going to look at me. They're going to I'm going to do this great video for you to tell you come look at this place. My experience is wonderful. Their clothes are wonderful. Whatever. They're going to go straight to your social media. They're not just going to go to me and say, "Okay, I'm going to go directly to the shop to buy it." They're going to go first to your social media. They're going to check you out. And then if yours is crap, >> I'm going to look bad because they're not going to trust me. They're going to think, "She just did it for the money. Even if you didn't pay me, you just did it for the money. They're going to lose trust and faith in me. And then they're not going to the what's it called? The transition >> Yeah. >> to from a viewer to buyer, >> the sales funnel, that whole Yeah. it's not going to be as streamlined as you think it is. The first thing they need to do is to improve their back end, their front end actually, their front end. And in order to do that, then you can start bringing in the influencers to come because yours looks nice and shiny. So instead of investing and putting money into the influencers, invest to put money into your own social media, make it look good, try and grow by yourself and then bring the other people in. So I saw that gap and I thought they don't know what to do. >> Let me come and help you and tell you what to do. Your audience are like this. Let's analyze it. Your audience are this. This is your demographic. This is who you're targeting. If your demographic are young, young girls or young women, Gen Z, they're going to respond to this type of content. This is how you speak to them. Yes. >> You speak to them differently from how you speak to me. As I hate to admit it, a millennial. >> Um, this is my this is me that you're trying to talk to. I will listen to you if you talk to me in this way. And this is how you do that style of content. >> Yeah. >> And then cater and then kind of consult them mostly. And then for the ones that really don't know, let me take over. Let me help you figure out what how to do it. >> That's amazing. What sort of brands are you working with? What sort of industries? >> Different um lifestyle um lifestyle brand. One is a lifestyle brand and some are fashion. >> Okay. >> Like fashion. There are a lot of expat women here who would um build businesses um and they'd present their businesses at uh do you know Singapore Boutiques Fair? >> Yes. >> And when you go to Singapore Boutiques Fair, those booths are expensive. >> Yeah. >> They're so expensive to present and have your booth and put everything together. It's it's a lot of work that the the people who go to the event I probably don't even know. M >> and um when you look at their social media again, you think you could have put that money >> into your social media instead of doing this. Yes, you'll get sales here, but you'll lose a lot along the way because you're social. You won't get repeat customers >> because they won't trust you on social media. >> See, because you understand the psychology behind it. That's a big thing. I think one of the things that you bring to the table, I mean, I can see it in the pictures, but certainly speaking to you is sophistication, etiquette. Where did that all come from? Cuz that's that's something that it's learned, right? You have to be mindful of it. >> Yes. School one, my school is very strict. So, the teacher things that you can't brush your hair in class. It's unladylike. You had to wear your skirt length at a um a very respectable length. I used to be. So when you asking about how naughty I was at school, I I used to be the girl who who' roll my skirt up. It was a thing that we did. >> So we because we're a girl school, we we deprived of male attention. So before school and after school and we'd like the boys school that was close by, they'd also finish school. You know, you'd want to get their attention. So we'd roll our skirts up and then like you'd come back at lunch, not too sure, you come back at lunch and they'd say you get scolded. >> Skirt down, socks up, wear your blazer properly. I think that could be a business for you. Etiquette school. >> You're not the first person. >> I really believe in it because, you know, I guys that work with me, girls and guys, you know, how do you meet somebody when you're having dinner with somebody, right? How do you conduct yourself? How do you engage? Yeah. >> Um, and people people just overlook it, right? And I just think, no, no, you got to go and watch some James Bond movies or something, right? But it's it's big. I think it's really big. >> I think it And then when you're dealing with corporations like you are, you're you're dealing with people at all different levels, but ultimately if you're dealing with a company's owners, right, that you've got to be mindful of that what you're presenting on their behalf. >> So So and then you're still modeling though or not so much. >> Yes, but I'm more I left the agency side of it. I really dislike the >> going to castings aspect of it. So now I'm Direct Bookings. >> Okay. >> Direct bookings. Um, but personally through me and my manager. So, not through an agency. >> Is your manager here? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. My manager's here. >> You know, cuz my son was asked to do some modeling and then he went to a couple of shoots and he he didn't like it because they said he was too muscular and he's he's he's actually not that big, but you know, does push-ups >> in the modeling world? He is. If it's based on the picture I saw. Yeah. >> And I said I said, "Fuck them, mate. Be do you right. If you don't want to do that, you don't have to do it. If you want to do it, do it." >> He's great for fitness. >> Yeah. That's what I said. >> Men's health. That's that's what I said and I use the example I remember like when the Rock first started acting um he was told lose a lot of weight be different and it just didn't work >> and then he decided to lean into who he was but I just said look you're you're not necessarily going to make your living from that just have a bit of fun with it >> see where it goes but he he wants to be behind the camera I told he wants to be a filmmaker so I'll tell you a funny story so he was making a short movie it was something that he wanted to film in one day >> right and and say look I'm filming this in one day and he rented the equip equipment from school. He was using some of my equipment, but the the guy who was meant to play his dad, who's a professional actor, who's acted with in the past, pulled out last minute. I think he was unwell or whatever. Yeah. >> And he was a bit disappointed, you know. He said, "I've got everything set up. He's in national service, so he doesn't get a lot of time off, right? And it's intermittent." So >> I said, "Look, you need to have a roster of actors, right? You should reach out to everyone now." And I said, "But I actually know someone who could do that. Um, he's a brilliant actor. uh could probably play your dad. I don't know if everyone would believe he would. He's your dad's. He goes, "Who is it?" I said, "Me, mate." I said, "No one's going to believe I'm your dad cuz I'm almost, you know, he's you're 6'2 almost. I'm 5'6 and a half, but I said I'll do it." And he goes, "Really? >> How did he get his height?" >> Well, Tara tells me he's definitely my son, right? So, I was, but jokes aside, um, during co Well, I'm short cuz I did a lot of sports. I think I think my growth was stunted and back then, we didn't know about those things, but he was a little bit of a science experiment. So during co he got to sleep a little bit bit more. He ate a lot of steak, drank a lot of milk. Um and just sports I think sports really helped him right and then he was you know he would read online he this is going to help me this is going to help me. >> Um but I've just I just I think Avana will be tall. I think my 11-year-old probably be taller than me. >> She's a model. >> Yeah, she really is. And she's got that look and see where it goes and then and Talia is short like me. But he just But what what I love to see with the kids, it's just how they develop. And with him, he was a little bit of a science project. >> So I remember um one Christmas I gave him a pair of boxing gloves and in the in the card from Santa, it said, "Kaden, you can be a world champion." And he goes, "Daddy, Santa thinks I can be a world champion." I said, "I reckon he's right, mate. I reckon he's got older and he, you know, and then he would say, um, my coaches don't believe in me." I said, "Get your coaches, mate. All in. You have to believe in yourself." So, the thing is, like with the podcast, one of the reasons why I wanted to do it was I wanted to show the kids what it was like to pursue something that I'd never done before. So, two years ago, I'd never done a post on LinkedIn other than I'd posted twice when I was looking to hire an assistant. I had never done anything. Right. Two years ago. >> Two years ago. Only two years ago. Right. Um, and then, >> you know, I didn't even speak to my wife about it cuz she's very conservative. she might have questioned it and um and as soon as I said I was going to do it, I people would come out of the woodwork and give me advice and a lot of it was negative and it was skeptical and I had one guy that was leaning in and telling me what he thought and I just said, "Look, firstly, I didn't ask for your advice. >> Secondly, you've never done a podcast, >> right, >> in front of the camera, behind the camera or anything. And thirdly, I don't want to be a bastard, but I've learned not to take advice from people I wouldn't trade places with." So I just slapped him down with cuz it was it was negative, right? And then my point to them was just go all in. >> Just do it. >> Just try. And and look, the reality is about life is most people are consumed with their own life. >> Yeah. >> You know, so they're not really bothered. >> 30 years inside the rooms where careers are made. We've built an intelligence platform that's yours. Real frameworks, no theory. Quintessential coaching. Your career starts now. Um, but I think what you're doing as a young woman, um, as a young black woman in Asia, which is really not easy, it's it's just a lesson for everyone to learn from, right? And then also, I love the fact that, you know, your husband's white, so you're in this interracial marriage cuz I think that's the future. I think we will all be mixed in the end like I am. >> I agree. >> You know, for sure. >> So, what's next? So, how are you building your brand? What's next? And, uh, what are you looking forward to? Um, I want to educate Singapore about my culture and my part of the world. >> I love that. >> And I'm going to do it through art. So, I'm putting together I'm working on it putting together a an art exhibition, African art exhibition where I teach people in Singapore. I share my part of the world with Singapore. >> Okay. >> Um, building that side of things. I and building my p sharing more about myself and sharing more about my personality and I usually do that through social media and also helping brands with their social media aspect of it. Um I'm working I'm tapping into the acting world as well. >> So I yeah I've started to audition as well. >> Wow. >> So kind of I think after modeling another transition is usually acting. >> Yeah. >> And it's something I've been fascinated in. I used to do hosting um in so presenting yeah >> in England >> and that was be for >> fashion. It was for a fashion magazine but that would and it was only for YouTube back then but it would take me to fashion week and I'd interview like Tiny Temper. I'd interview like all these different celebrities who was huge at the time. Um a lot of them were like local to England but big in England but local to England. people. >> Well, if you look at look at Asia, specifically Singapore, because it's a small country, as you said, um you you might not get a lot of modeling gigs. I've noticed that most people turn their hands to different things. >> Yeah. >> You know, so I had Paul Foster on the show who's a TV presenter, you know, he's done acting, he's an exportsman, he's done a bit of everything. He's very well known here. He's he's your reality TV show. >> He was Singapore. Yeah. Singapore Social. Okay. I know. So, so you know, so it's so interesting and uh I've been in the corporate world all this time, so I find it fascinating to meet different people. >> How are you finding it transitioning from corporate fin to this the media space >> just I mean I'm new to it, but I've I I love it. I just lean into everything. Yeah. >> You know, so the event what was really weird Chris was there. So um I turned up at the event they' asked me to and I've been in private bank for 20 years but I don't go to these events. It was the first ever event that I went to and a lot of people knew who I was because of the podcast. >> Yeah. >> And what was crazy, one very senior person came up to me. I didn't recognize him. I'm connected with him on LinkedIn. He looked different because he's got a mustache in real life in in his picture and he doesn't post a lot. And um he introduced himself. I didn't know who he was. I should have known. Very very senior guy. But then he said, "Oh, I watch your podcast quite a lot." But and then I I emailed him and it turns out he watches uh a lot of the ones that are non-private banking related. So the sports ones, the mixed martial arts, the boxing ones, right? So so it's interesting. But the the thing about me is I've never been shy. I don't give a You know, as an exportsman, I would I lean into everything. Um, I do get annoyed sometimes cuz my wife has a perspective of, you know, she'll say that's cringe or there's this or, you know, when I if I post me working out and I just said, but that's who I am. That's what I've always done. >> The thing is about social media, people want to see that, especially in the podcasting world, they want to before they can buy into the guests that you're bringing, especially if the people don't even know the guest, they buy into you. >> I hope so. It's it's going to take some time because the thing about the podcast, you know, it's ultimately been about my guests. >> So, my podcast is a bit different. It's about people's career journeys, right? And and uh but so we've decided to I've got to go all in on this. So, like so we released our founders story. Gotham helped me film it. So, um we released that two weeks ago. We've released our first vlog today. I'm going to send it to you. I want to know what your your thoughts are. >> I've just started vlogging as well. >> It's it's you know, it's different, right? >> Yeah. >> So, how did you find the experience? um slightly invasive and you have to get your head around it cuz now I'm telling people exactly what I'm doing and I get conscious oh my gosh I'm filming too close to my house things like that you know and you have to get luckily I live in Singapore so not much is going to happen hopefully but >> you've got to be conscious of those things you you know what's crazy right so Gotham I call him Gum or GK we I told him when I hired him at the end when did I hire you end of last year you joined me >> so so the first as I said, come and check out what we're doing over the weekend. We got a few podcasts and he was having a smoke outside and I was wearing a Twin Peaks shirt. Um, and the director of Twin Peaks. Do you know what Twin Peaks is? You're not familiar with it. >> I I think I can picture the logo. >> You're almost too young. So, it's a TV show, but he he was only 26 at the time. >> I'm too young. >> So, you're too young for that, right? And he's just a film buff. He's a an aspiring movie maker as well. So, he said, "Oh, you're a fan of David Lynch." And I was blown away because most people his age, his generation, won't even know who David Lynch is. He's one of the greatest directors of all time and made some amazing shows. So I said, "Ah, this is the guy for me." So I said, "Look, in the next few months, we're going to go to Dubai and Abu Dhabi and Hong Kong, and I want you to film these things, and I I want to create four founders stories for me and my different businesses." Wow. >> Um, and >> we want to see that. >> Well, you know, well, check this out. this is why I really love him and rate him. So the first event we went to a 90D breath work event and I and I I said just film and he just was going he's interviewing people and he's bringing them to me. I thought wow this is pretty cool. And then in Hong Kong we were rolling into bars, clubs, private clubs and he just filmed and I just said just go just roll with me. And uh even at the event with Chris they had they was a very professional set. allowed four or five photographers and um I said just roll with me and I think his pictures were better than theirs. >> Yeah. >> You know, and it was really cool. But but I think you need a big pair of brass balls. >> If you want to do that, you have to be confident. You got to lean into it. >> Fake it. >> If you don't have it, fake it. >> Really? That's what you think you tell these people. >> Oh my good. Yeah. >> Even like when I'm doing runway or when I'm on a photo shoot, >> if I feel like absolute crap, like today is not my day. I literally pretend in that moment the second they're like action or start >> I am Naomi Campbell in that moment. I I literally pretend I visualize I am Naomi Campbell and then you turn into who you need to be >> and then once they're like cut I'm back to dress >> back to being scared. >> Yeah. I love that. Well, at least you're you're transparent about because a lot of people they're too shy to say they have fear or insecurities. >> I'm always scared. Always. I think today I'm only I'm calm today because Chris is literally sitting right behind me. So, I feel like I've got my connection and my comfort with me, my husband. >> But other than that, I walk into events by myself. >> I'm doled up to the nines and I'm quaking in my boots, >> you know? I'm literally physically shaking because I don't know anyone, you know? I'm still learning the industry. I'm still learning my way. You just have to like you always say, you have to lean in. It's okay. >> You know, it's weird though. It's like um it's not that I don't get nervous. I've had a few podcasts with very senior people and I'm I'm a little bit nervous about the discussion, but I'm more worried about the tech when we've been traveling. What happens if there's, you know, a power outage or whatever? We're under a lot of time pressure. Um, but also I'm older, right? So, I've just >> and and I again, for me, I want the kids to see it. I want them to know what it is to go after something and try and introduce themselves. So, I took Tully with me to the US to do a podcast. >> Nice. >> And um, [clears throat] >> you were talking or you were hosting? I was hosting the podcast. I interviewed a guy. So what happened was his name is Jim Lampley. He was the voice of HBO boxing for three decades. So like when Mike Tyson lost his very first fight in Tokyo all those years ago, he was the one that called it. So he's universally known to be the best ever boxing commentator and he's he's covered 14 Olympics, multiple Wimbledons, um just really a household name. He's been in like maybe eight, nine, 10 movies playing himself. So in the Rocky movies, Ocean 11, stuff like that. Um, so I wrote to him and he said, "Look, um, I'd love to do the podcast." And I said, "I'm so honored. Um, I always dreamt of becoming a world champion boxer. It never happened, but when I dreamt of it, I dreamt that you would be calling the fight. >> Is there any chance I could come and do this in America?" >> Yeah. >> And he said, "You're going to fly all the way from Singapore." I said, "Absolutely." So he said, "You know, come and do it with me in my home." >> And then I said, "Wow." And then I said, "You mind if I invite my daughter alongside my videographer?" And then we went over there and she the morning that we were flying out which was 3 days later. That's the thing I've learned about business. Time kills deals. Go fast. >> Time kills deals for sure. >> Just grab it. Go. So like 3 days later we're at Chang. We're about to board the plane and Spotify tells me that the latest podcast guest for Joe Rogan was Jim Lampley. And I text him. I said, "Wow, you've gone from the biggest to the smallest." And he goes, "Biggest to the most promising marketing 101." So we we rolled there. >> I love that mindset. It was brilliant. And then um then I realized when we arrived in San Francisco, we had a 2-hour layover. He'd written a book. Um and I thought, I've got to read that and digest it. And then he was on all major news networks. Um and I thought, I've got to watch all of those in the next 48 hours to come up with a different angle. And then the thing is his book, um the forward was written by Taylor Sheridan who's the writer creator of Yellowstone. >> What >> John Gisham, Billy Jean King, some so like real household names. M >> so I thought I can't get this wrong. I've got to remember everything. Um so that >> Were you calm? >> I was really calm. I mean I I I was a little bit nervous, but I was more nervous that it wouldn't happen because we had a lot of problems leading up to it. And then when he arrived, I was just grateful. But then, you know, we're in someone else's house. You know what happens if there's a power outage? Um and I'm a fan of his. So my biggest challenge was this. It was trying to remember what I had already asked him, what I hadn't. Was this from my research? Have I already asked this? Cuz it almost lasted for 3 hours. >> Wow. >> And the one thing I failed to ask him, the only one thing I failed to remember was he worked with OJ Simpson for 15 years. >> Doing what? >> Um, as a commentator, >> right? And and I wanted to ask him about this. I forgot about that. But other than that and it was so but you see when you do things as you know that test you >> you find out about who you really are >> and and look you can fail you get back up again >> that's it but you got to try. Yeah. >> So I always try. >> So I'm hoping I'm I'm having on the show soon. I won't announce it yet but an Olympic champion from the UK as a as a runner >> um and a lady and I can't wait to tell you about that if that should be happening soon. >> Is she black? >> I can't say. I won't say cuz it will give away, but um there's a lot of black athletes or a few white athletes, but she's amazing. She was my favorite female British athlete growing up. >> I think I know. Don't say cuz I'm going to have a reaction. >> I think I'm really excited for that. Yeah. >> So, that would be cool if that happens. Um so, let's talk about how people can reach out. I will put your your credentials and how they reach out to you, but just so we know, what are the future projects that you're working on right now other than what you've shared with us? >> The art exhibition. Okay. Um, I'm really excited about that. I'm still working on it. So, when I'm ready, the date will come out. >> Amazing. >> Um, the uh what else? Also, building out my social media management media business, helping out other brands. That's those are my two main focuses and just my social media as well. My own personal brand, my own personal relationship with with other fashion brands for my own self. >> Yeah. Huge. >> Um, one of my biggest dreams actually right now is to walk the L'Oreal fashion show. >> Really? That happens once a year. Yes. >> I really want to do >> put it out there. I like what we do. >> I am. I really Yeah, I really am. That's always been my dream. But the L'Oreal fashion show. >> Well, the other thing I wanted to just wrap up on was that the fact that you and Chris are both entrepreneurs. You run your own businesses and that that in itself can be challenging. You know, you have one person for both of you. And I like I commend you both for that cuz it's not easy. >> Do you know what? I love it way more this way. I get my husband at home way more than when he was locked into somebody else's time management. Yeah. >> You know, obviously, yes, he's still a very busy man, whatever. But I just I can text him more whenever I want. I can call him whenever I want cuz he's his own boss. He gets to make up the rules and he sets his own boundaries of, okay, from this time and this time, I'm not contact. I'm not available. And the same and that means he gets to help me with my stuff. Yeah, >> because I've come from an industry of modeling. It's been about my looks, my appearance, and now using my brain. I'm telling people, look, I really do have a brain. I really want to show you what I can do for you. And he's helping me um be more businessoriented and businessminded and learning more about business. Him and Emma Greed, I say. Do >> you know who Emma is? >> No. >> Emma, she is >> I do. I think I do. Tell everyone. I do know who she is. Yeah. >> She's an incredible woman. She's a black British woman who started class and she's a powerhouse entrepreneur and she helped set up Kim Kardashian Skims and >> and she's very beautiful and the Kardashian. Yes. Good American. The Kardashian brands essentially her and her husband as they move to they move to LA, right? Yeah. One of the brands. So, I'm learning a lot about business from her and it helps. This is what they always say like um >> diversity matters and why does diversity matter? Because of reasons like this. I love Emma because Emma is me. Emma is a woman who came from nothing. I came from nothing. I came from a woman of a woman of color. >> A woman of color. She a woman like her has showed me. I I came from poverty. When I lived in Uganda, I was I was grew up in poverty. >> My start to life was poverty. In England, it was workingass. And >> my first real like experience with luxuries and the better half the better parts of life were through Chris actually. Um and then other things in my life happened like I met a different side of my family who are very you know very well to do and they took me and it helped me and that's just that's a beautiful part of my life that I got to experience later. However my first experience with it was through Chris and I do understand that I am in a place of privilege and it has come from my husband and I'm very grateful and very open about it. I'm very what's the word? >> Um acknowledgeable of it if that's a word. But Emma agreed. I what I see in her is you are me. You came from humble beginnings >> and you made this incredible empire. She really came from a working-class British family and she came and she's just, you know, when I have seen a lot of her stuff. >> So when she came like when she you see her walking in and out of her office and she's got a flare for style, but she's but when you speak to her, you know, like she'd be a London girl. London. You go out for a night out with her, a few glasses of wine. Yeah. >> But people like that, I just think they're so charismatic. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I love that. That's great, you know, and that's the other thing. I always feel that um and I can sense this with you. I always say that there's a lot of unnecessary competition. I always think there's a place for all of us and and a rising tide raises all ships. I've always I've always not understood that like, you know, like one of my best friends in high school is a guy called Canai Jackson. Um he's a two-time Commonwealth gold medalist as a gymnast and uh he worked for the Sole for 15 years and people always thought we were competitive because we were both sportsmen. Um we did different sports, you know, we did track and field together, but that wasn't the case. I always admired him. I adored him, right? I just thought, "No, this guy, there's so much I can learn from him." And I've I've always realized that when you meet other like-minded people Yeah. >> you help each other. >> Exactly. >> You know, like we're here today because of Chris. I know Chris because of DJ. Chris introduced me to somebody Ned that I'd never met. And it's there's no asking. It's just >> it's just people who give. Yeah. >> And it's so power. It's so simple. kindness is so overlooked >> and it's the kindness without expecting anything in return cuz I realize as you get older because you don't have things become so like transactional >> and I hate that about how we're developing >> because when where I come from in England >> you just give you just do you don't really especially if it's your mate you just do but sometimes I feel like >> people give to get get back >> yeah but you can sense that when you know that >> you know it's funny because I I work with a lot of people that >> have that transactional mindset and they don't believe this but I I always say to them I assure you other people are going to pick up on it they'll know they'll know you know so in acting they call it the subtext what is really what are you thinking behind what you're saying >> right so I well I studied acting when I was younger and um that's why I put my son into acting just to develop his confidence but uh the the methodology of acting by a guy was Stanlaski who was a Russian uh method actor. He would teach it but he always talks about the subtext. So you walk onto stage you say this but your character actually means this >> right so I always find when you meet genuine people it's completely different. >> Yeah >> you know but you've got that sense about you got that aura about you >> I hope so >> 100% 100% you know you come across fantastically well you're so articulate and I love your stuff I've only seen two things that you put out um which is your latest vlog. Yes, my YouTube I've just started. >> Brilliant. And it's funny because we're on that journey as well. And it's it's um but I I love that. And the other thing I find really weird about psychology, I always find a lot of people on social media are watching, but they don't you won't know they're watching. They don't like, they don't comment, they don't share. Um and I've seen a lot of people on social media saying, "Well, you know, it doesn't cost anything to to help people." >> I just find a lot of people won't do it. >> And I So I don't >> Why do you think that is? It's it's like why do why do people that complain uh they won't say nice things people you know people if you you could be nice 99% of the time you make one mistake people will remember that 1% right >> I think so I think people kind of fall into that or they're shy I don't know but I'm I' I always want to help and I'm I'm I'm you know so I'll I'll write to someone I'll say something but maybe we're in the minority I don't know >> I I do I try not to let get to me anymore. Especially when it comes to friends. I try to understand the psychology about it. >> Yeah. >> And I don't try to do it for the friends I know, but for the friends I'll make online. >> I love that. >> And then that just makes me not get so upset about it. >> Yeah. >> And then I try to understand. So if something's not working, people aren't engaging with it because they're not engaging. It's not that great. And that's okay. >> Yeah. >> And then so you just work along, you know, understand Mr. Beast actually taught me that. And I became so obsessed with social media and understanding how that works. I named my cat Mr. Beast. >> Yeah. >> Just like Yeah. My cat's called Mr. Beast. >> He's really intelligent, Mr. Beast. I mean, I know it's it would seem obvious, but I heard him on the Joe Rogan podcast. >> Oh, right. He said intelligent. I was like, "Yeah, my cat is intellig." The real Mr. Beast. Yes. >> Yeah. Really? He blew me away with his whole mindset, his psychology. Really? >> And he's obsessed with this. He's obsessed with this world. His nickname could also be Mr. Obsessed. >> Yeah, Mr. Obsessed. And he talks about just fail fast and do it again. Maybe it's your thumbnail, maybe it's your this, maybe it's that. That's okay. Just learn fast and try again. And that's what I do. I changed my entire like the way I was I was posting content. I need to do it in this way because it tracks this brands cuz my me and my manager are trying to figure that out. I'm figuring out now maybe that's not engaging as much. >> How did you get to know your manager? What was the story there? Um, I actually had a different manager before and when the way I found my other manager is because I just put out I'm looking for a manager. I need someone to manage me. And we worked together. Then she realized I don't really want to manage people. I want to manage brands. Then she introduced me to the manager now. She's like this lady is going to be really, really good for you. And she is. We're working really well together right now. And I really appreciate her. >> It's got to be a good partnership, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It has to. And together we have a team. We have um uh uh she brought in with her a photography team. So I've got my own people who shoot my content for me, help me edit it, help me put it out, and I maybe tweak it a little bit, but I come up with the concepts. I come up with the >> It's a lot of work. >> It's my brains and they're um >> putting like putting together. >> Yeah, it's a lot of work. >> It's that's that's what >> it's full time. >> That's that's what I'm learning, you know. So the media team that I'm trying to pull together is t it takes time, right? And then I've worked with um external people. I've got mixed feelings because I think if people work for you full-time, they're fully dedicated to what you're doing. I always think that's the ideal scenario. You can't always do that, >> you know. Jess, it's been an absolute pleasure. You're a rock star. Thanks for coming to my house today. >> Thank you for having me. Your home is beautiful. >> Thank you. Yeah, we've we've just renovated. We're just we're doing it bit by bit. >> So, we've got and but the problem is we got dogs and cats and the place is a mess. I look forward to meeting your cats. I haven't seen them yet. >> Yeah, we The problem is they're terror. If we let them down now, they'll be all over all of this. They'll eat the cables and uh Yeah, savages. Thanks, Jess. Appreciate you. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Cheers. [music]

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