Naval Diver to Prisoner to Purpose: The Lee Rocka Story | #67

I got caught for possession and consumption of marijuana. I was a military guy for 10 years. I was with the naval diver. I trained uh combat divers. I was part of the maritime security team. >> You're a rapper. You're an actor. You're a life coach. You're a renaissance manager. >> I'm a swim coach as well. The way I stay grounded is to express myself through music. I I was born in the project, born and raised in Indonesia in Maidan. I was raised by the street. Basically, the age of 12, she brought me over to to to Singapore. How I deal with stress back in the day was I just smoked weed, suppress it. I served 7 month 10 days. >> Wow. In Changi. >> No, no, no, no. In Oh, in detention barrack. That was the turning point of my life I would think. >> Of course. >> During my incarceration, I read like 70 over books. >> I love that. Let's talk about that. >> Mostly self-help. And all of the self-help book was in pristine condition. >> No one was touching them. >> No one. [laughter] No one. Right. >> And actually that those are the books they should have been reading. >> My family actually trying to help me. They planned my life for me. It was like, "Okay, what you you are out. Go and become a security guard. Stable pay. You have the military background." Well, I I don't want to be a security guard. The first day I I was out, took back all my recording equipment [music] from my friend. Start recording my first song, I realized troubled youth come from different background, not just underprivileged. Sometime too much privilege cause that as well. There was one case that we were handling and he's the son of a chief of police. He's doing this because he just want attention. We are trying to provide uh creative education for free >> to the underprivileged. Why not I be the solution for it? >> Lee, how you doing? >> Great. >> You know what? this might be the final podcast of the year and if it is I'm very happy I'm doing it with you. >> Thanks. Um it's a pleasure like for me because I'm a fan of the podcast. >> Thank you. >> You know so because I do like to listen to uh podcast a lot. So like I kind of discover your podcast by accident. >> Yeah. How did it come up? Is it because of EJ? >> I think it's because of uh EJ. >> Okay. And then when I'm like, "Huh?" No, he this guy seems interesting. Then I look at your your content. I'm like, "Your guests are interesting." Like it's different >> from the the usual >> um just pardon my French like [ __ ] podcast like people just >> chit chatting over [ __ ] There's no value to it. It's entertainment, right? >> Yeah. >> So for me it's like entertainment is good >> but you know I want to add value to my life as well. Let me see what I can learn from listening to and >> I love it. >> I ended up learning a lot. >> Thank you, brother. Well, so did I. So, we met for the first time only two weeks ago, I think. >> Yeah. >> At at EJ Fight Night, and you and I actually spent most of the evening talking together, and you dropped a lot of wonderful wisdom, and I'm grateful you're here. But for the few people that may not know you, can you give a quick intro to the audience, please? >> Okay. So, my name is Lero Rocka on stage, right? But my government ID says that I'm Wayne Lee. >> Okay. >> However, I go by the name of Daniel. Okay. Because I'm a Muslim reverse. So, ever since I practiced that religion, I introduce myself as Daniel. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, what shall I call you? >> Call me whatever makes you comfortable. >> No. Yes. You listen. >> Daniel. I I'll prefer Daniel. Yeah. >> I love that. Now, talk about you. You know, one of the things I didn't share this with you, but um my heritage going way back apparently is from Madame. >> Really? >> Yeah. I I wanted to surprise you. So, you had a real reaction. So, when I first moved to Singapore in 2001, >> I found that out and then I ended up going there in 2001 by chance with a friend of mine. It was my first trip when I was here. So, I went to Lake Tobber and stuff. So, tell us your journey where you were born and raised, please. >> Okay. So, I was born and raised in Indonesia in Maidan, right, specifically. So, every time when I introduce myself and I say I'm from Indonesia, people just assume that I'm a rich Indonesian Chinese kid, right? >> But I that's far from the truth. Like my background was never wealth. >> Tell tell everyone what Madana is like because I haven't been I've been back since 2001, but tell everyone what a Madan is like. Nothing changed >> really. >> So maybe the airport changed location. >> Um in 2001 when you go back the airport was still small, right? >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Everything was small except except the the lake and the boulders at the bottom of the lake. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they have moved the airport now. >> Okay. >> It was it was used to be in the center of the city. >> Okay. >> They have moved it like 1 hour away. >> Okay. >> So that that kind of like tell you how dangerous the city is. >> Yeah. So when you So you were born and raised there till how old? >> Until 12. >> Okay. So what tell me about what life was like that cuz it's very it's very rural >> outdoors. No, I I was born in the project basically like in in the ghetto side of uh Indonesia. So um >> and I didn't grow up with my parents because my dad was uh I didn't know that until like last decade. I think my dad was a professional criminal. >> Okay. >> Right. anything that you can make money on, right? He he have his hands on it. >> Okay. >> But he looked like a professional businessman. >> Right. So on like that's how my mom kind of got arranged marriage to him. >> Okay. >> But then the marriage didn't work out. They got a divorce when I was five. My mom come to Singapore in search for a new life. That's where she met my stepfather. Right. Then they got a family together. At the age of 12, she decided to like, you know what? Let's reunite the whole family. >> Yeah. >> Right. she brought me over to to to Singapore. Right. With that being said, the the period that I need parents love the most, I don't really have it. Right. I I So, I basically got um I was raised by the street basically. >> Yeah. >> Right. I hang out with um other delinquent um >> or the bad boys on the street >> pretty much. But those people taught me one thing like the real value of family >> like I love this quote like blood make you related but born make you family right the relationship you have with someone is family. Yeah, >> right. The stronger it is, right? You can call it brotherhood, you can call it whatever, but at the end of the day, the one that look out for you the most, the one that take care of you the most, right? May not be blood related. >> Correct. And you you you don't choose your family, but you can get to choose your friends. >> Exactly. So that environment I kind of fall into it and they taught me like a lot of good values. Uh not a lot, like a certain good values, a lot of bad ones. [laughter] Isn't it? Well, look, tell tell everyone, let's give a quick intro because the first thing you said to me or one of the first things that you'd been in prison. >> Go through get a quick snapshot and then we're going to turn back the pages of time. >> Oh, okay. So, I was caught for drug in 2016 >> where >> uh in Singapore Singapore. Yeah. Okay. >> But and I was a military guy for 10 years. I was with the naval diver. >> Okay. >> I was a regular there. You know, I trained uh combat divers. You know, I was part of the maritime security team as well. So that was like a kind of a combat uh role >> for 10 years. >> Yeah. For 10 years I was there. Um and I got caught for possession and consumption of marijuana. Right. Because how I deal with stress back in the day >> was I just smoked weed to get rid of it. Not get rid of it to run away from it and suppress it. Right. >> Then I got caught for it. >> U 2017 I got released and I've just >> How long How many months were you down for? >> Sentenced for 11. uh months but I served seven month 10 days. >> Wow. In Changi. >> No no no no in Oh, in detention barrack because I was a military regular. Okay. Right. >> So yeah. So that kind of like um that was the turning point of my life I would think. >> Of course. You know what's crazy is when you look at America where marijuana is now legalized in many states, there are a lot of people that are still imprisoned for it which is crazy. Do you know what I mean? It's it's mad. And and again, let's just finish your your description of who you are before we'll go back through everything. But you're a rapper, you're an actor, you're a life coach, you're a Renaissance man. Is there anything else that you do that I'm not not familiar with? >> I'm a swim coach as well. So >> you're a swim coach as well. >> Yeah. So I like uh also by accident because I have the the swim coaching uh ability during my naval diver time, right? And then my my soon to be ex-wife uh like now still wife, right? [laughter] She she was like, you know, we have a lot of uh pools in our condo. Why don't you just because they she keeps seeing ads of swim coach wanted swim coach wanted, right? Like it's just out like it's coach them like they're just out the door, right? >> Exactly. >> So I'm like fine, you know? So I get a conversion course and then I start coaching in in my condo itself. >> Amazing. So go back to going grow growing up in Madan. Uh you left at 12. >> Yep. >> Now where did you go? Walk me through it. Straight to Singapore. >> Straight to Singapore. >> How did it come about? >> Um it's because my mom want to reunite the family unit, right? And uh when I come here um due to the environment that I grew up in, I can't assimilate well with the local because the the environment is like ying and yang, right? It's the total opposite. It's so safe here. >> Yeah. >> The and the fact that it's so safe here. Every boys that I know >> pretty much still trying to grow up. >> Yeah, that's an interesting observation, >> right? They all they talk about was wrestling uh Saturday night cartoon or sun oh no Saturday morning or uh Sunday Sunday morning cartoon right like Power Rangers and stuff like that. >> It's a bubble, right? >> Yeah. So for me it's like what what was this know? So I have a hard time jelling with them and the fact that I kind of like uh roll back two years academically >> Yeah. doesn't help the the situation because um I was supposed to be secondary one by the time that I'm 12 but >> um >> no no when I come here I'm already 13 right when I start school. >> Yeah. >> Right. Um so I came here when I was 12 learn English and then try to um go to the secondary school fail the entry exam then go to primary six entry exam failed that as well. Premier 5 barely passed it, right? But I ended up starting at primary five, right? So that two years age gap doesn't help as well. Like I'm I'm literally with kids. >> Yeah. It's it must have been weird. >> Oh, very weird. >> You're going through puberty way before them and what have you. >> Yeah. So that's when I try to find solos in music, right? Because music has always been >> So that's how music found you and you found music. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> What did you fall in love with straight away? What was the main thing? No, initially I fell in love with Michael Jackson. Yeah. >> Right. My my dad have this thriller tape that I always played when I was young. >> How old are you now? [snorts] >> Now I'm 40. I just >> Because when you said tape, I thought, okay, straight away, right? Cuz my kids when I tell them what a Even if I tell my youngest, who's 10, what a CD is, and she goes, "Back when the dinosaurs roame the planet." [laughter] She's 10, man. She's got lyrics. But Michael Jackson. Okay. >> Yeah. So, I I love Michael. Uh, I learned my English. I learned his lyrics before I knew English, right? >> That's the power of music. >> Yeah. So, um, but when my voice broke, right, I can't sing Michael Jackson song anymore. So, I try to like, you know what, I can't find solus in singing a song that I can't hit the pitch on. >> Yeah. >> So, I start to like explore other genre, right? Then that kind of led me to hip-hop and rap, you I I've heard uh uh when I first heard DMX, >> right? >> I love I love DMX, >> dude. Like he is like the energy he has >> on all his songs is just different. >> Yeah. Visceral. So sad he's gone, right? He's just >> What What What are your top three DMX songs? >> Oh, my first one has to be uh Let Life Be My Song. >> Okay. >> That that is uh it's not a gangster. It's kind of a motivational rap in a way, right? And second one will be uh of course the Rough Rider anthem. Everyone got to put that in. [laughter] >> Then then the >> I'm hearing the song in my head now, man. >> Then the third one is um is X going to give it to you? >> X going to give it to you. >> But as but his voice is hard to replicate. Can you >> You can't You can't like It's so different. Yeah. >> Right. It's so visual tried. >> He tried. I do love You know what? Cuz I know they had a lot of beef, but I do love some of Jar Ru's songs, but the and and but >> I love Jar Ru. >> But the thing about I mean, Always on Time is one of my favorite songs, but >> the thing for me, Nothing But Gangster, the smoke and get high again. I love that song. But um DMX, there's just And you know, like he's a man's man, right? >> Yeah. And and not just that, like the the fact that all of his album he make it a point that he have a song that is religious, >> right? To kind of show people that I'm not just a gangster rapper. I'm not just a dog rapper, >> right? I am a believer as well. >> Okay. >> Is what sets him apart from other rappers, I think. >> Yeah. Are you a are you a MMA fan, a UFC fan? >> Uh, I wouldn't say a fan, but I love watching it. >> So, Anderson Silva, who for the longest time was the greatest uh MMA fighter on the planet, >> his walkout song was to uh DMX, ain't no sunshine, and it's just like it's when it hits, you know. So, there are some songs that are synonymous with in fighting anyway with with a fighter walkout song. That's one of them. That's brilliant. And then after that then who became your major you know idols and people that you listen to? >> Right now I love Ice Cube a lot >> right ever since I discover him I realized the way he rhyme and >> the way he tells stories in his music is >> it's very unique. >> You know what he talks about? I saw an interview with him funny enough yesterday. There was a clip he talks about, you know, it took 5 years for him to get to a half decent level, >> right? And it's like the the book Malcolm Gladwell's outliers. He says 10,000 hours cuz everyone thinks, you know, you get good at something fast. There's no such thing. >> I mean, >> um, if this is what I believe, right, everyone have a level of talent in them that is God's given. >> Yeah. And for you to master something that is God's given talent, you will take a little shorter than other people. >> Yeah. So he was doing 5 years, it would have taken me 25 years. >> Exactly. So So So I'm not saying that, you know. [laughter] >> No, no, I can't sing for [ __ ] bro. >> So So I'm just saying like let's just um use I I like this uh example a lot. Like let's use Michael Jordan. >> Yeah. >> As an example. Yeah. >> Right. He grew up loving baseball. >> Yeah. That's his first love, right? >> He's a baseball fan. But what do we know him as? >> Basketball all day. >> Exactly. Right. So for me, like it doesn't matter what you love. >> At the end of the day, if you don't try >> everything, >> Yeah. >> you don't know where your talent lies. >> That's the that's the challenge I have in Singapore because children have to choose one extracurricular activity. So, let's say you do music and you want to play drums, but you love it, but you're not as good as you potentially would be at piano. You know, you should try everything when you're young, cuz I believe and I and you're going to get this right. Um, I believe that all children have a a musician, an artist, an actor, an athlete in all of children. At what level? Who knows? It will vary. But I think we should explore those things. Yeah. >> But a lot of people don't. They're afraid, especially as as people become adults. This is why I admire you so much cuz I'll give you an example. Do you know who the best actor is in Singapore? >> I believe so. >> No. Do you know who it who do you think it is? >> Um I tell you, >> Fan Wong. No. >> No. You're talking to him, [ __ ] It's me. [laughter] >> And I haven't even done any acting. But my point is I I I No, all jokes aside, I'm saying you have to believe it to put yourself into it. Yeah. Right. So, uh, I'll play a clip of you rapping, coming out to EJ, but let me tell you, when you did it, I was like, "Wow, this was" and and, uh, Gum got some great footage of you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, how did you guys choose that song? >> Okay. So, um, he wanted, uh, to work with me and he said like, "Bro, like Singapore boxing scene is pretty monotonous and like I've looked at MMA. I've looked at boxing overseas and like the biggest uh dog always have a rapper walking out with them. Yeah. >> Right. And he said, "I want to work with you because you're a close friend of mine." >> How did you get to meet by the way? >> Acting. >> Okay. >> So, uh we were in a McDonald's commercial thing together. >> Really? I can't imagine that. Really? >> No. No. But the the the scene is like we are not the main guy, >> right? We are in the beginning of the scene, but we are not the main guy, right? So the the whole scene is uh you know how boys have to go through NS, right? >> Like they're trying to build up confidence and stuff like that. So they're trying to the queue to the club was too long. So I was in the front of the queue. >> Okay. >> EJ was the bouncer. >> Okay. >> Right. So uh after that whole shoot, we kind of like clicked because we have a lot of similarities, right? We refuse to work for incompetent people. >> Yeah. >> Right. And >> I love that. >> And we click and then we see each other progress throughout the year, right? So he said like, I love how consistent you are. I love how um like when you say something, you'll do it. Uh why not we start like why not like my boxing debut, you walk out to me like >> I love it >> with a song. >> Okay. >> So he have a few ideas on what the song was. >> Okay. And then when he sent it to me, I'm like, uh, bro, first of all, it's too long, right? Second of all, I don't think like I don't think it's gangster enough. So, I'm like, let me propose you my song like like like instead of writing a new one. >> Did you have a short list? >> Yeah, I have a few. I have three songs. Right. >> So, uh, he ended up liking Many Men. >> Yeah. >> Right. He said that lyrics kind of like um resonate with him like a lot of people don't believe in him. A lot of people like pretty much want to kill him in his career >> but he have ris occasion that I'm like that's the reason why I wrote the song in the first place. Right. Because none of my family members supported me since I got released. >> Yeah. >> And the the people that supported me the most >> are the people that I known the least. >> So you became black sheep of the family. Is it >> pretty much? Yeah. Um, have you have you got it on your phone if you can play the song? Can you rap a little bit? >> Yeah, let me do Have you got your phone on you or is it that one there? >> Oh, my phone is right there. >> Thanks, Paul. >> Because I would I'd love to I'd love to get, you know, I had a buddy of mine, Ry Khan, who's a radio DJ here. He's a singer. He was a singer for two decades and he brought his guitar and I thought, why not? But we can have a little bit of Daniel Lee Rocker in the house. [laughter] [snorts] >> Okay. So, this is the song. So, I produced this and I used the like half, not half, some of the chorus from 50 Cent. Yeah. And interpolated. step on me. Lord, I don't cry no more. Don't look to the sky no more. It's because of many [music] men, many many many men [music] wish. >> So I just cry because they want me. They want me up in the head. [music] They want to shut up in a [music] woman. That's where they want me. [music] That's why they want me. That's where they [music] want me. I always push my limit. Only give it for my digit. Need to see it to believe [music] it. I'll never quit till I'm hit by mill where I met I'll never quit escape my life by [music] crush a lot I don't die I just do what I try always [music] I be good yeah holy can you tell if there [music] Oh mate, that's beautiful. >> Yeah. So like uh >> I do talk about my struggle in a way. >> Yeah. >> But um I like to be honest, I'm still struggling with depression a lot of time. Right. However, I >> thanks for sharing. I I have done as well. >> Yeah. So but for me, I always look at myself in the mirror and say, "Bro, you got this." Right. like and then I start tell myself that this is what you have done. >> Yeah. >> You can achieve more. >> Yeah. >> Right. It's just uh it's just um uh it's it's just a bad patch. It's not a bad life. Right. >> Do you do you still exercise a lot? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Cuz cuz I >> I exercise every day now. That's great because I found that that helps me battle it or keep it a little bit in check and and I know you don't drink anymore which is great because that for a lot of people that is a negative spiral, >> you know what I mean? Even EJ talked about it. He said he would drink to get over. He just exasperated all his problems. >> That for me it was um it was that then when I realized I do not like how I behave when I'm on alcohol, I switched to going back like I went back to weed, >> right? So that was my kind of like my coping mechanism. >> So rolled through. So talk to me about your high school years going through like how how do you decide to you know stay in the military for for 10 years? >> Um um I always try to make friends but it always kind of like surface level. >> Yeah. >> Right. I try to find a community that I can kind of hang with and then during the military we pretty much suffer together and that was a bond in a way right however I was trying to pursue uh music full-time >> okay >> but I didn't know the means I didn't know the ways struggled for two years after my OD like od means like operational ready date for those who don't know right >> how old were Yeah. >> Um about 20 20 >> Okay. >> 22. >> Okay. >> 22. Right. I already and then after uh a while they call me back for uh reservice. So during my first cycle of reservice, I saw my buddy during army that has signed on early like just walking around like relax like his job is every morning when I I was like taking attendance. I see him walking around with a bag of coffee, right? Going to the office and I'm like, "Bro, like is this your routine?" >> Yeah. every day like like bro like the life of a regular is chill. So I'm like why am I struggling outside for? [laughter] So I decided to sign on. So I didn't sign on immediately. >> I sign on only like >> Is that unusual? Cuz I would imagine most people sign on they go straight through. >> Yeah. So >> it's unusual but it's not unheard of. >> Okay. >> Right. >> But my did you seek counsel from your family or friends or did you just do it on your own? >> No. Like like >> cuz it's [snorts] a big decision. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Is there a minimum time that you have to sign up for? >> Um, >> how does it work? >> 5 years. >> [ __ ] Yeah. >> That's what I'm saying. It's a big thing, man. No, >> but the thing is like I think personally I think every boy should sign on. >> Yeah. >> Everybody. Why? If you think long term, right, that is the best paying career, the best place to learn because when you sign on, you will climb up the rank. You will play different role to a point that you will learn about people management, you will learn about project management, you will learn about a lot of things. >> Yeah. >> And is structured >> and it's at the highest level, right? >> Exactly. And it's structured well. >> Yeah. >> And then if you are planning to be a business owner, you should start here. >> Yeah. >> Where else can they pay you to learn all this? >> That's the thing. You're getting paid to learn. >> But I didn't see it that way. >> Most young people wouldn't. They wouldn't. They don't understand. Right. actually if you if you had the opportunity to go back what say you were 30 and you realize oh if I could go back in time and learn it it's wonderful. >> Yeah. So for me like if people ask me if I could go back in time what would you what would you do? I'm like just use your time to learn bro because at the end of the day like this is what I discovered right a lot of people value money a lot right but money is just a byproduct of something. >> Yeah. >> Right. For me the byproduct of money is uh take T a K right it's time multiply by Ake which is uh applicable knowledge executed. >> Love it. >> You have to like it's knowledge is not enough. You have to apply and execute it. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> It's everything. >> Yeah. So like money is just the byproduct of that. >> Right. If you don't and the know if the knowledge that you know only able enables you to get like let's just say a waiter. >> Yeah. >> Right. All he knows is waitering. >> Yes. >> Right. So if he keep applying that time and time again then the money that he going to get is going to be just that. However, if you a waiter, but you know how to serve people well, you know how to do customer service well, chances are you getting tipped is a lot, right? >> I'm going to I want to interrupt you. I'm sorry to interrupt you. >> Yeah. >> You know, when you talk, you know who you remind me of? >> Who? You. >> No. A much better man than me, Bruce Lee. When you speak, >> your intonation on certain words and phrases. Have you ever heard that before? >> I'm No, you're the first one. >> I'm serious. I was >> I'm honored, bro, because I love Bruce Lee a lot. >> I love Bruce Lee. His birthday would have been just 85 soon, but sorry to interrupt you, but it came to me just then. I was talking to you. I said, "Wow." Okay. No, no, you're right. Take is everything, right? >> Yeah. >> So, so and then you enlisted. Then what happened? >> And um I start focusing on just >> do you getting by? I think. >> Do you choose where you're assigned or how does that >> No, they assign you. Like since I was already a naval diver, they just attached me to a combat unit to be an assistant trainer. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Talk about naval diving. How deep are you going? What are you doing? >> Oh, I on hindsight, I I should have enjoyed it more because uh I was lying to myself that I didn't enjoy it. I didn't enjoy the people that I work with. >> That's what I didn't enjoy. But the things that I was doing, I pretty much enjoyed, right? I was I learned like um uh paratrooping. I I jump out from helicopters and planes. >> [ __ ] me, I'd pay to do that, bro. Wow. >> Oh, it was amazing. >> Was it supposed to be scary as hell at first? >> Initially, I thought I I have I thought I have uh phobia of height. >> Yeah, >> I didn't. >> Really? And how high were you when you were jumping out? >> I can't remember. It's It's pretty high. It's pretty high. Right. >> Have you got pictures and footage of any of that? >> I don't. >> Yeah. Cuz they're not it's not social media. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and you can't you can't like the military was the last place in Singapore that implemented camera phone. >> M >> and camera phone have exist for like two decades by then, >> right? So they were very slow in implementing it. >> Yeah. >> So it they kind of like got implemented during the last two years of my service. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I think that discipline and what was the physicality like doing that? >> Uh, I mean there was a lot like since naval diver is one of the elite force in Singapore, right? So the there was a a bunch of um physical routine that you have to do and I was always at the bottom rank, >> right? I was just do the bare minimum. Uh, and because I kind of like and I was so stressed out with the people that I work with, I ended up um smoking uh one pack of cigarette a day. >> So 26. >> Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Sometimes more, right? And uh when cigarette kind of like don't help when like >> when you're diving, man, your lung capacity, right? And how long how long were you down for? was the longest you underwater for? >> Underwater for 2 hours. >> Jeez. And you're fixing You're fixing what? Cables, machine, equipment down there. >> Uh, no. Um, >> what are you doing? >> I was the standby diver. During training, you need a standby diver to pretty much like take care of the safety of the trainee and stuff like that. So, I was the standby diver. Yeah. >> Wow. And um you must be is that how how deep do you go? >> Oh, for for that it's like what? Um 4 m. >> Okay. >> 4 six 10. >> Okay. >> But you won't be at 10 for a long time. 10 is only utilized for like because there's this thing called the emergency drill where every divers have to do once every every quarterly >> or is it half yearly? I forgot. Right. But you have to keep doing that this emergency drill to be considered uh uh current diver. >> Yeah. >> Right. So it's a currency drill. >> So everyone have to do it. >> Wow. And then you got to your the end of your why did you decide to leave? Was it because of the >> the drug issues? Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. So and then so they they exited as soon as you came out of prison you're done. >> Yep. Um >> it's a it's a shame like because you spent 10 10 years of your life. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is um during my incarceration I read like 70 over books. >> I love that. Let's talk about that. >> Mostly self-help. >> Okay. So uh and it's also by by uh by chance I would say because I I was first few weeks right first two weeks I think uh I was borrowing like uh like story books just to listen and pass time. No, not not listen just to read and pass time. For some reason, fiction book always have a chapter or a page missing which kind of like screw the whole reading experience up. Like what the hell happened, right? So I told myself like the next pristine looking book that I saw in the library, I will take it. And all of the self-help book was in pristine condition. >> No one was touching them. >> No one. No one. Right. >> And actually that those are the books they should have been reading. >> Exactly. Right. So, I went and picked up this this book called Being Happy by Andrew Matthews. >> Wow. >> It's thin, digestible, and there's a lot of like drawings as well, like to help you >> entertain you a little bit, right? And I when I read it, I there's a lot of cliche things that he's saying, but if you kind of like sit and reflect upon it, >> yeah, >> it is logical. >> It's real. It's not. It's very real. Right. So for me, >> you know, by the way, that night when we met, see, most people, we're there in a nightclub watching the boxing and we were talking about books. We were talking about philosophy, weren't we? Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> It's hilarious. Yeah. I mean, which is why I think like I I admire you even more because like um I find a lot of sim like similarities right from listening to your podcast and interacting with like wow this guy pretty much like me like despite all of the challenges I understand you have what you're dlexia >> dyslexics and and did that didn't stop you from >> no >> anything. What what I've realized about most of our weaknesses is that they actually become your strengths because you know I'll give an example. No one will believe this. I'm an introvert by nature. >> Um and my my you know I'm in sales. So let's just pretend 50% of the world are introverts. You're going to connect with them a lot easier. And then if if the other 50% are extroverts, how do you sell to them? Let them talk, >> right? You just find ways. But dyslexia, how I think it's helped me is it's improved my memory, >> right? And maybe because I have to read everything two or three times to properly comprehend it, uh, it means I I learn things a little bit more deeply, >> right? So, but also the reality is if you have weaknesses here, you have strengths there. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Um, okay. And then by the way, cuz I I read very slowly, but I've you can see from my library behind me, you know, that's part of my li in my company. there's 131 books in my company library and a lot of my employees over the years they they refrain from reading and I said well look I don't want to force you to read because it defeats the purpose I'm going to recommend you read and you know I say I'll give an example if I said to a young person incarcerated or a 22-year-old man or woman if you read these 70 books that Lee Rock has just read you're going to become a multi-millionaire would you read the books if you had a year to read the books as a tall order. Would you do? Yeah, of course I would. Of course, I'd read the books. I said, well, now we just need to take away the fact that there is no golden formula that you're going to become a multi-millionaire, but you know that reading those books is going to help you. It's going to increase the chances. Guess what? No one reads the books. It it just doesn't make any sense, right? And um I I just find the impetus to learn is so important. And I and I I do think that all the short format that is out there at the moment, the problem is it means knowledge is superficial. It's not deep. So when you're reading things and you're studying things and you're implementing them, that's when change really happens. >> The implementation, yes, that is the part that a lot of people forget, >> right? Like knowing is not enough. >> Like this is the the best example I can give you, right? When you walk outside, right, let's just say the mall, the park or whatever, right? You will see people who are obese. Are you telling me they don't know that exercising is good? >> Of course I know. >> Everybody know exercising is good. >> Yeah. >> Right. But if everybody knows it, why we still have people who are fat? >> Yeah. >> Medical condition aside, right? Most people have medical condition because they are fat. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. So for me it's like when I start to realize people undervalue time is due to the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to understand that time is actually the most important asset you can have in this world and everyone have the equal amount of time given >> 100%. >> Right. So for me it's like it's what where you are in life is actually due to the the the uh time that you have invested throughout your life. So where I am at now >> Yeah. >> is because of me putting in effort since 2017 >> been grinding bro. >> Yeah. you're not talking about obese people and and look some people have some hereditary issues or whatever natural ailments but I had a friend of mine who was a bit overweight and he said can you help me I said no problem but you got to be committed he goes yeah and I said right there you go so I put on the table in front of him a 10 kg plate as in a weight plate he goes what do you want me to do with that I said I wanted to push it 10 times so he'd push it and I pushed it back pushed he goes we're not even in the gym this is [ __ ] weird. Paul, what are you doing? I said, now you got to imagine that's a plate of McDonald's in front of you and you're pushing it away. You're not going to eat it. He goes, you [ __ ] [laughter] But I said, listen, cuz when I'm when I'm depressed or stressed out, I eat and I eat a lot of crap. And the irony is, you know, sometimes I feel like I'm working out in order to eat a little bit more. Do you know what I mean? It's but it's balance. >> It is. It is. It's actually balanced because um ah I forgot this. there's this uh fitness influencer that I I I follow on Instagram, right? And he he is different, right? He said like you can count your calories all you want, but at the end of the day, right, if the the your output doesn't justify your input, you'll still get fat. >> Yeah. Simple. >> Yeah. So, it's like like it's about what you do, it's not what you eat. Yes. What you eat is important, but that's like the least of the problem. >> Yeah. >> It's what you do that is the problem. >> Yeah. Yeah. You It's up here first. >> So, when you came out of incarceration, what what did you do? >> Because did everyone like leave you? You know, the the people that you thought were your friends and family, some of them disappeared or what? >> My family actually trying to help me, >> right? They want me. They plan my life for me, right? There's like okay what you you are out go and become a security guard >> stable pay you have the military background you will like climb the ladder faster like just become a security guard but I'm like >> wow I I don't want to be a security guard. >> Yeah. >> All of the success uh successful people that wrote books tell me to pursue my passion. >> Yeah. >> And my passion has always been music. So I want to I want to see where I can go with it. There's like but you have been doing it for I don't know how many years like for like uh and and you have not su I'm like I have not successful because I have not been serious about it. >> You haven't jumped in dedicated so far. >> Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like I I like I want to see if I'm serious about it where I can go with it. Right. >> So it's like nah man you're delusional blah blah blah like we trying to help you. You don't want like first of all I didn't ask for your help. >> I like that. >> Right. >> Yeah. and you just jump in trying to control my life and tell me that I'm supposed to do this. >> Yeah. >> No offense to y'all. None of y'all are successful. >> Yeah. By the way, when people do that, it pisses me off because you know, as you said, you didn't ask for the help. >> Do you know what I mean? And the other thing is I think it's how people give advice. If it's kind with kindness and they talk and they ask you, well, what do you see? I always ask questions first. Yeah. What do you want to do? So, if I was if I met a young man in your predicament, I'd say, "Well, what are you thinking? >> What what do you feel your options are?" Because you have options. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? But mo most people cast dispersions based on their own limited thought process. And that that's the beginning of the end for a lot of people. >> Exactly. Right. I mean, um, don't I I love my family, don't get me wrong, but I didn't get well with them is because they don't see what I see, >> right? So for me it's like I've I've like I've read and gained a lot of knowledge. I'm just trying to apply it. You need to give me time to apply it. Right. Then if I fail, I'll give you the first uh like ticket to tell me that I told you so. >> Yeah. >> Right. But until then, let me try. >> Yeah. >> So >> So what was the next step then? Oh, I I start like the first day I I I was out, took back all my recording equipment from my friend, start recording my first song. >> Okay. >> And then start to see where I can promote it. >> Where were you recording? At home or? >> At home. I have my own uh home studio. >> I love it, man. >> So, um then uh my first wife, right? >> How many wives you had, bro? >> This is my second one. >> That's okay. And you can't consider yourself a serial serial wife until you got at least three. Bro, [laughter] >> that's why that's that night you said my current wife. That's I think that's what you said. >> Yeah, >> that made me laugh. >> So So um she wanted a divorce straight away. >> Okay. >> Right. And after >> you should your song should have been many women. [laughter] I mean that's the word men in women as well. So pretty much so >> so yeah I I uh gave her the divorce and >> yeah a lot of people like support that supposed to support me didn't support me at all. >> So I just grind on myself like I start cutting off like start taking stock check on who will add value to my life and stuff like that. So because I firmly believe right everyone should find their fish. Yeah, >> fish s f i sh stands for something like your fish supposed to benefit you financially, intellectually, spiritually and health, >> right? Mental and physical. >> So, so that's why I I use this acronym during my like life coaching most of the time like like if your friend don't benefit you in this area, they're not your friend, right? So um financial benefit you can gain from your uh colleague right that's a that's the most superficial friend you can have. >> Yeah >> right. Um not saying that they're not your friend but they are your friend in that department. >> Yes. >> Uh your intellectual friend are your your your classmate and and stuff like that because you guys are pursuing the same thing. So that is still um important but it's not as important as the the spiritual health >> because you need friend that will tell you that dude this you can't do this man like it's wrong >> right you need to exercise more you you need to like not lie to your spouse you need to like do all these right things to keep your morality uh in check >> and and to keep you spiritually in check as well like dude like no one is watching but God is watching. Yeah. >> Right. Don't do this. Don't do >> When when did God become a prominent part of your life? >> When I was incarcerated. >> Okay. >> So, I start uh I start believing that like God exists in and everyone has a purpose and for me it's like trust that you have a purpose. No, if not, you won't be here. >> Like every time your dad ejaculate, like there's trillions of sperm. You're the only one that able to convince the egg to let you in. [laughter] I mean, so so, so you won pretty much cuz you're here. >> I love it. I love it. [laughter] >> So, >> I've not heard that take, but >> yeah. So, for me, it's like that it's now what are you going to do when you're here? >> That's right. Right. >> So, um when I realized that I I already like warn I have a purpose, I start to work on that purpose. Right. So, so I I always try to grind this into the youth most of the time like you are here for a reason. >> Yeah. >> Let's talk about your faith and values cuz one of the things I picked up when we were talking was that integrity, family values, friendship, kindness. These are core to who you are as a human being. Share with me how that came about and how you're trying to foster that with the youth that you're giving a lot of life coaching to. Um I use myself as a example uh because I've went through the the the things that that they are pretty much facing >> and some right so I see the trajectory >> of where they are going. >> Yeah you can see it. >> So for me it's like I'm just trying to be someone that I wish was there for me when I was your age >> because imagine this. I start pursuing passion when I got released >> in 2017. Right. And I only start pursuing that passion and grow along the way. >> Yeah. >> To be where I'm at today. >> Yeah. >> Imagine if you invested earlier. >> Yeah. Big difference. >> Big difference. Right. When you are at my age, you will be a multi-millionaire. >> Yeah. >> Right. because you have invested time in something that you can pretty much apply and grow earlier. >> Yeah. >> So for me that has always been the message and like there is always the right family born and there's a wrong family born. Right. Although I like I talk about family value a lot. Sometimes you have to understand you have to be the black sheep of the family to show them what is a real family value. >> Yeah. >> Even if they ostracize you till the end of time. >> Yeah. >> You have to be the the one that breaks the cycle. >> Yeah. >> Because if you look at it like >> a lot of the time you just fall back into the cycle. I'm I'm using my father as an example. He was incarcerated. He was doing drug. He was around the the like the wrong crowd, >> right? What does that led me to? Like that led me to the same path. >> Yeah. >> So for me it's like I need to break that cycle. >> Yeah. >> Right. I need to show my kids that it's possible to go against the grain even though the grains are your family members. >> Yeah. It's hard. It's not easy. >> Yeah. >> It's not easy. And the I think the thing is where your story is interesting and different and unique is you had this very solid 10 years behind you in a very regimented disciplined environment. You slipped. >> It happens. Unfortunately, you slipped in a way that led you, you know, to be incarcerated, but you have a story to tell, >> right? And now you're driving it. Talk to me about some of your other key philosophies that you believe in. >> I'm just going to get my phone because there was something I wrote down I wanted to ask you, but Okay, keep talking. So um another thing that I believe in is uh stress is actually a good thing. Right. Stress is just your body generating that chemical. >> Yeah. >> To tell you that you do not have the knowledge to solve it. Right. Because problem exists. That's why stress exists. >> Yeah. >> Right. If it's not a problem to solve, you wouldn't be stressed about it. >> Yeah. So for me when stress comes to you is because there's a key thing that you need to solve that you do not have the knowledge for it right so you should smile at it you should welcome it because >> you you need to understand once you found the knowledge to solve those things it became a tool that you can show others >> yeah I love it >> on how to solve and navigate >> in in the book you talk about positive positive leaving. >> Yeah. >> We're playing your surname. >> Yeah. >> L E E which I love. Um I want to talk about that. But one the one of the key things I wanted to talk about is you and I have many things in common. One of them is trying to share positivity. >> Yeah. >> You know by being real and stuff. Talk to me about positive leaving. >> Okay. It's actually remember I told you I I read like 70 of books. I what I realize is like a lot of the time they have something that is missing >> right sometimes it's too logical sometime it's too religious sometimes like there's not enough uh mix of um like scientific facts and stuff like that >> so for me is >> everything is interlin everything >> 100% agreed I always say inextricably linked >> yeah so for me it's like no matter how you look at it like um one of the chap I talk about the universal law. >> Yeah. >> Right. Do you remember that? >> I do. >> So for me, it's like if you look at the universal law, it's only logical to conclude that the law of attraction is a real thing. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Well, you talk about redemption and how it's it's based on what has happened in real life, right? And introspection. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and for me it's like once you pretty much dissect that where you are now is due to all your past action, you can't change anything, but you can change your future. >> Well, tell us about how this book came about. And >> I was just trying to merge all of the things that I've learned and apply into a small digestible book. >> And what I love about your book is it is digestible. And it's funny, I don't know if it's because the first book that you read was streamlined, right? Was it that that influenced this being a small book? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, >> it was uh the Andrew Matthew book. The >> talk about the power of purpose and faith. >> I think once you found that once you found faith, right? >> Yeah. you understand that God have put you into uh to this earth for a reason. Then you will try and find your purpose in life because you are meant to to do great things. Never let anyone tell you that you can't. >> Yeah. >> Right. And if people say that it's a stupid idea is stupid to them. >> Yeah. I love that. >> So never let anyone tell you you can't and then just strive towards it. >> You got to back yourself. >> Exactly. If I may, can I read you something from your book? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> There were many powerful parts, but the thing that I love most was the dedication. >> Ah, >> to to Muhammad. >> Yeah. Aris. Yeah. >> You were more than a friend. You were a brother. >> Yeah. >> Depression and drugs may have taken you away, but your memory continues to light the fire in me. >> Yep. I promise to keep speaking up for those who feel unseen, for those who feel unheard, for those who think there's no way out. Through every word, every verse, and every stage I step on, I will carry your name, and I will fight for those still fighting. Your story didn't end with you. That was very powerful. Yeah, because like to be honest like he was the only like the one real friend that I I have. He he was very honest even though sometimes his honesty come from a bias point of view because we both rap >> right and he have his own style of rapping. >> Yeah. >> And he like what he liked. So when I show him some of my new stuff, he's brutally honest. Bro, this is whack, man. Like blah blah blah blah. Sometimes I listen. And uh >> do you sometimes do just sometimes though think I'm not going to listen to what you're saying, man. I'm running my own race. >> Yeah. Like so most of the time I'm like, I'll prove you wrong. I know I got a hit, right? So, uh, then what he don't like about me is like I I tend to write songs for the ladies, right? So, so he's not that kind, right? >> Basically, you're a Kasanova. >> Uh, no, I'm not. [laughter] >> But you, you use art, you use hip-hop as a vehicle for healing and change. >> Yeah. >> Right. And I think that is very powerful >> for me. Like I you need to find something that will keep you sane >> because we living in an insane world, bro, >> right? >> You know it. >> So for me it's like you need to stay grounded and uh the way I stay grounded is to express myself through music. >> Right? And I think that that has been a very very powerful tool. And moving forward actually uh next year I'm starting my own um nonprofit where I want to provide the underprivileged youth uh uh creative education for free. >> Wonderful. >> I want to show them that you can express yourself through music. >> Very powerful. >> Uh you can learn I will teach them how to write their own song, record their own song, publish their own song and perform their own song. Right. Can can you talk to me about, you know, your take on hope and resilience and the everyday practices that you recommend to these young guys that girls to help them? For me, it's like never give up on yourself. That's it, right? Like first find uh live with faith. Believe that God is challenging you for a reason. And once you understand that challenges are just chances to be better, right? Problems are just opportunity to be better. >> Yeah. >> Right. you you you will tackle it from a different lens. >> Right? >> You you combine reason, faith, and understanding as you know key pillars to the whole positivity. >> Yeah. >> One of the things I want to touch about cuz that's very powerful is is having the courage to try new things. >> Yeah. >> Because you have you know you you left service, >> you came out rapping, acting, writing this wonderful book. Where does that courage come from? And how could other people find that courage in themselves? >> By knowing that if you don't try, you'll never know. >> Yeah, >> that's the basic thing, right? Like for me, it's like I I didn't fall into acting because I want to pursue it. It was by chance. >> Yeah. >> A friend of mine who was already an actor, he was like, "Bro, why don't you try acting to earn more money?" >> Yeah. >> You know, music was was slow. Uh I was having a a full-time job that was paying very little. I just need more money. And he was like, "Bro, just try acting." The same skill set that you have, it's just applied in a different like environment. Like for example, when you when you are rapping and doing a music video, >> yeah, >> you are in front of camera, right? >> And you are like rapping your lyrics. >> So instead of doing that, you are just acting for a series >> rapping the the the the script. >> Yeah. you know just remembering the line that where that you need to remember and you just act out like even music video you are acting. >> Yeah. >> Right. So for me when he says that I'm like makes sense let me try it out. So I started off as a background extra just the guy that walked past when they say action. >> Yeah. >> No lines nothing. >> Then that's you got to start somewhere >> right and then eventually I was given the opportunity to say one or two lines eventually it became a script. >> Yeah. So for me it's like whoa you know and and from a booking that is uh one day to two days to four days. >> Yeah. >> To five days. So >> and good news is recently I just got offered one of my biggest role as an actor like >> wonderful. >> Um >> can you tell us about it? Are you allowed to? >> Yeah. Uh okay. It's a new documentary about uh Singapore prison guard right and their life. So guess what room man? I'm a prisoner of course. >> [laughter] >> So, but I'm one of the main prisoner that is antag antagonizing the the the lead character. >> So, I'm pretty much the main villain. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, for me, it's and it's like a 12 days of booking. I'm like, whoa, >> that's huge. >> No, that's huge. Like, I've never had that kind of booking before. >> Yeah. >> So, for me, like when I on hindsight, if I don't try when people offer me the opportunity, I'll never know if I'll excel in it. >> I know. You know, I I haven't told you this, but like when we moved back from the US, um my son, who was quite young at the time, he was he was finding his footing. And my wife and I discussed like how can we build his courage, his confidence, and we both agreed to put him into acting. And there was uh it's funny because all of his buddies that he became friends with there, they got all got into sot for school of the arts, but he got in based on his writing, >> his script writing. He wanted to be a filmmaker from the age of eight. Right. I I I learned that from listening to your podcast like >> I think in one of the episode you featured him. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. >> And you guys talk about So that's one thing that I want to kind of um learn from you like because my daughter is 13, my son is 10. >> Okay. >> And as a divorced parents is like um it's very hard to have that a title relationship. >> It's tough, >> right? But I think there are still some values that you have that I want to pick on that and apply to my kids because I know what environment they growing up in >> right limitation environment >> because understanding my ex-wife this no that no this know that no. So for me it's like I I need to first show them that it's possible to be different. At the same time, I want to give them the tool as a father to kind of like push them and and motivate them. And that is something that you have been doing, I think, very well. >> I try. Thank you. I mean, I I I struggle with certain things cuz I grew up in a very humble family and my kids have grown up with a certain level of comfort, right? And um my goal is because I think I think all children are are wonderful, are excellent and uh I just encourage them. But it's funny because I put my son into boxing and one day when he was about 14 or 15, he said, "Dad, did am I doing boxing because you put me into boxing?" >> And and I said to him, "Look, this is one thing of many that you do that I like and love. >> But you, for example, you enjoy steak. I've never heard you saying, "Dad, do I enjoy steak because you introduced me to steak? I love movies. Is it because you introduced me to movies?" No. It's we all each have a calling. But I actually said to him, and I I said this to him again recently. I said, and this is no slight on other sports, it's just how unique combat sports is. >> Yeah. >> You know, like football, soccer is the most popular sport in the world. So, if you imagine there's a door um with people signing up as kids and you have a thousand students, most of them are going to sign up to play football and then some are going to do swimming. But when it comes to things like boxing, there's going to be one or two people. And then he said to me, "Oh, you mean you put me into it cuz there's less competition?" I said, "No, no, there's more competition. It's elite competition. It requires a certain type of level, man. It's a different psychology and mindset." And and I said, "At the moment, you don't realize it that the guys that are supposedly your competitors, these guys ultimately could be your best friends because they're living the same dream, like you said, they're getting up in the morning, they're running, and I assure you, if you're going to war, those are the men that you would want next to you or the women." And um but I I think so, one of the key things I've tried to give the kids is discipline, >> right? So now like my two older kids, man, like my son and my daughter, they they're just they're grafting. They're working hard. It's a weird thing because something maybe because I'm delusional, I never had confidence issues, >> right? I've always believed in myself 100 fucking%. >> That's good 100%. And like >> I wasn't like that though. >> Most people are not. >> Most most people are not. And I I don't know how I I don't know. My my brother and I were built that way because of the way my mom and dad raised us or where we grew up, but I faced a lot of racism. So the average Chinese guy in the UK was considered to be a wimp because you know their parents either ran the local Chinese takeaway or whatever. There was this image and you know Bruce Lee changed that and what it could be and I've never subscribed to if you're black or white. Listen, a punch is a puncher kicks a kick. And my first love was running. And you know, everyone said, "Oh, all the black runners are faster." And it doesn't matter where you're from, what you do, you just have to give it, give it the beans to be the best version of yourself. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But what I've learned in life is if you believe that you can be good at something, you're more likely to believe you are. If you believe you're [ __ ] guess what? You're right. You're going to be [ __ ] So, you might as well believe. >> So, this is why I I I also tell uh the youth most of the time. I will tell them I will start by you are always right. >> Whatever it is in life, you are always right. >> Why? Because you won't listen to anybody else but yourself. >> Yeah. >> And here's the the the the icing on the cake, right? You will never grow living with that mentality. >> I love it. Because at the end of the day, you can only grow when you realize that you have the capacity to make errors. >> Yeah. >> You have the capacity to be wrong. >> Yes. >> And then that's when you grow. Because once you understand that I may be wrong in this, what is the right way to do it? That's when you gain new knowledge. That's when you research it. And that's when you start to think like, hey, you know what? >> I'm sorry. I was wrong. >> Like I I need to be better. >> Yeah. And then the funny thing is life get better when you get better. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> So if you stay the same, guess what? Your life will be worse because the world doesn't stay the same. The world constantly change. >> Yeah. >> Right. For the better or for worse is based on your perspective. >> Yes. >> At the end of the day, >> you are always right. >> Yeah. But you can only grow when you realize that you have the capacity to be wrong and you have the capacity to grow. >> It's very powerful. You have to have that white belt mentality about learning the whole time. I mean talking about parenthood, one of the things that I I think I haven't got right or was this I'll use my son as an example. Naturally, he didn't want to play a lot of sports, right? So he and I were very different and I I you know I had I have two daughters as well. So I was acutely aware given my sporting background that I didn't want to impose that on him. You know each child is unique and different and they'll find their own path. But I always felt that martial arts and self-defense for boys and girls is very important and sports for young men in particular is very important on in a whole variety of ways. Um and where I think I I I didn't get the balance right and I I'm still learning how to do this now. I would say to him, "Listen, man." So, he's on the national boxing team. And I said, "You know, you're not doing enough push-ups, you know." So, for example, where where you at? And he was at 35 or 40 push-ups in a row. So, I said, "What is the the guy there that doing the most? 70." And I said, "No, you need to be able to do 100 push-ups. And you can't consider yourself a serious athlete until you can do 100 push-ups in a row clean." And um and then I would but the where I went wrong was I would say when I was your age I could do and this is true. I could do it but I shouldn't have said it in the same way. I could do five sets of 100 push-ups with a minute in between right which that's elite. That's what you should be aiming for. So the problem is I sometimes would inject myself too much yeah >> into the equation. And then the other thing with the kids it would be reverse psychology would be push and pull. I said, "I don't know if you can do that, man." You know, but th those were but most of the time it was encouragement. I believe in you. You can do this. You need to back yourself. Oh, my coach doesn't believe in me. I said, "Fuck your coach. You got to believe in yourself, son." Right? You have to believe in yourself. You have to make them a believer because at some point people will or will not believe in you. The one interesting thing with him that I noticed was uh there would be times when he was sparring or fighting that he got hit and he would not know what to do or he would look down, you know, he got hurt and and I said one of the key things I've learned in life is how do you take punishment >> because you know using that rocky line, nothing is going to hit you harder in life than life >> and how you receive that and and I said you know so there'll be a moment in the fight where you get hit and in that moment you've either broken or you're going to you're going to embrace it. And unless you're going up against someone whose, you know, leaps and bounds are beyond you in terms of strength and technical skill, when you do that, you have now imposed your will upon their will. Right? So like Mike Tyson is my favorite fighter of all time. >> Likewise, >> I love him. Mike Tyson, but when he fought Avan Holyfield, he hit Avani Holyfield many times, his best punches, his best combos, and Holyfield just looked like him like Pac-Man, like he's just eating it for breakfast. And I think you can see it in his shoulders. There's there's a point in round five in their first fight where Holyfield hit him to the abdomen and it lifted Tyson off the floor and you could see him take a gulp in and I think he stole a big chunk of his soul. Then Tyson hit him. combination, his famous commentation combination, hook to the body, uppercut, and it lifted Holyfield nearly off the flipping floor. Holyfield kept coming and Tyson did this >> cuz at that point he just thought, "What the [ __ ] do I have to do, right? This guy's a terminator." And and I've saw my son embrace that and you know that's that's just what life is. It's how you deal with problems. >> Exactly. Exactly. Because at the end of the day I think um this is my favorite line like um when people was asked like what define success right >> it's actually how many time you bounce back from failure that you find >> you got you know I've got a lot in common man so when I was 27 I had a meeting with the CEO >> and the head of HR Gene Lee beautiful amazing woman had arranged for me to have the meeting and Kareem Tio I mention her name in case she listens to this she was president for the meeting and this gentleman the CEO said, "Look, you're very young." And I said, "Thank you." He said, "It's not a compliment." I said, "Of course it's a compliment because I'm 27 and I'm, you know, I have the honor of being in your presence." And he said, "I'm going to ask you a question and if you don't answer it well, it's the end of the meeting." >> I said, "Fine, but if I answer it well, do I get my $50,000 retainer?" He said, "Okay." So, he said, "What's your definition of success?" And I said, "That's easy. It's how high you bounce once you reach rock bottom." >> Yeah. >> And he he started laughing. And he goes, "All right." He said, "I got another question." I said, "You just said it was one." He said, "You've got your your retainer. This is just for my amusement." And this guy was a risk manager. His background was risk. He was not a particularly aggressive commercial guy. He was a risk manager. He said, "How do you deal with mistakes?" And I said, "That's easy. Also, zero tolerance, baby." Right? So, going back to that incompetence, but I smiled. Do you know what I mean? So, I love that. Um, talk to me a little bit about when you look back your personal reflections. What's some of the the misconceptions that people have about you? >> Um, I think most people think that I have low tolerance in when it comes to to like I was a violent guy. Not anymore. But as I progressed, most people still see me as that, >> right? So for me it's like no I'm I'm I'm good now man. Like I'm chill >> you know. I learned how to control my temper. I've like and a lot of the time as well people think I'm a womanizer. I'm not. I know I wrote song for the ladies but I'm not. Right. I have discipline. You know like this is what I this is one of the things that I like the most. Right. A guy that deserve respect is the guy that have discipline. Right? For example, if you choose to be peaceful because you don't know how to defend yourself, >> you're just a coward, right? But if you are capable of violence, but you choose peace, >> that's respectable. >> I love it. >> Right. So >> that's great. >> So for me, like I'm capable of [ __ ] around. Pardon my friends, but [laughter] >> I choose not to. >> Yeah. Right. So for me, I think I will deserve more respect in that in that uh in that way. >> No, I love that. And I think I think one of the the key messages that I wanted to get across from you today is how that discipline is across all avenues of your life from your personal life as a as a husband, as a father, you know, as a businessman, right? And as a professional, it's all it's all inextricably linked. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean for me it's like uh sadly the world kind of like work in black and white right however that is a good thing to me right is right wrong is wrong >> at the end of the day you have to be disciplined enough to to navigate that correctly >> for me like I will not even in friendship I will not negotiate >> like uh you have to be honest with me >> right because I want to grow Yeah, >> tell me where's my my shortcomings. I'll work on it. Right. And at the end of the day, >> I will do the same to you. >> Yeah, >> I will not care about your feelings. I will be honest to you because facts don't care about feelings, right? So for me, that's how I navigate. I will let you know like this, you need to work on that or else don't don't come with me with the same because one of the things that I hate the most is people complaining about the same problem and not doing anything about it. >> I know >> that drives me mad. Yeah. It drives me mad. >> So for me, after the third time I listen to you, I'll give you an uh recommendation or I'll give you a suggestion. >> You have to apply that suggestion. >> Yeah. >> And if they don't, it drives me bonkers, mate. >> And for me, if if they don't, I'll just cut off friendship from there. Like, bro, can we meet again? Nope. Have you applied this? No. Then no. >> Yeah. >> Because I know you're just gonna complain about the same thing. >> It's a tough one. It's a tough one. I try to be forgiving in friendship. Um and I said this to my daughter earlier this year. I said friendship, you know, you have certain friends that like leaves, one gust of wind and they're gone. They're fair weather friends. Then you have the branches and they they tend to hang around for a bit longer. Um, but then you have your roots and the reality is they're going to be very few of roots that are deep. >> You know, when you find those friendships, you have to work on them. One of the things I admire most about my wife, um, [snorts] you know, she she's an extremely hard worker. You might not know this, but she's got a full bride scholarship. She's got a PhD from Yale. >> I know. You know, she's based on your podcast. That's it. You heard it. Okay. So, I'm very proud of her. But one of the things that that I I look at her and her friends, she and a core collective group of school friends are still best friends to this day. >> Wow. >> And um you know, I I I wish I had that. I don't really have that. And it helps that they're all in primarily in the same country, but it takes work and they all have different paths, but they're doing great. I want to ask you some rapid fire questions. Yeah. >> Go for it. So, what's one lesson that hip-hop has taught you that school never did? >> That um don't judge people by uh their action, judge them by their intention because sometimes like for me, I also judge people by action a lot. >> But I forgot that some people just don't know how to navigate. Yeah, >> they have good intention just that they don't know how to navigate it well and then looks like they're doing something wrong or doing some >> I love that >> like [ __ ] but at the end of the day you have to understand that oh that person care about you >> like he's like so for me now I learned to be more forgiving in in that >> well they say in law it's like act men's reus which is Latin you know did you comm intend to commit that crime >> you know so I like that um what would you say is the most misunderstood part of being a rapper in Singapore? >> That you can't make it into a a career. >> At the end of the day, like it won't be a career to you if you downplay your value. >> Yeah. >> For me, I my non-negotiable is I won't perform unless the money is right. >> Yeah. >> Right. For me, it's like my non-negotiable is you want me to perform, fine. $500 per song. That's it. >> Yeah. I got to get paid, man. >> Yeah. So for me it's like, oh no, you're going to get big exposure from this. Like even EJ EJ paying me because he know my value. >> Yeah. >> Right. So for me it's like like >> friend like that >> where can you find >> Yeah. For me it's like no like if you think like it's good do I have more than enough exposure like people in Hong Kong is paying me people in Thailand is paying me to do music like why do I need to undervalue myself for exposure at this point >> that's the thing like like in professional boxing for example has got to be make commercial success. I I've had I had a client a while ago. I've had it a few times um when I do career coaching and he I sent him the the charges and he said, "Oh, you're very expensive." I said, "Well, it depends. What do you value?" And I said, "By the way, do you want to take advice from someone who earns less money than you?" >> That's what I said and I winked at him. [laughter] >> Um what's a collaboration that's changed the direction of your artistry? >> The the Okay, so this also happened by by accident. I was part of this collective called Battle X Warrior, right? So Battle X Warrior is a collective of artists around the world, right? And their their slogan is artists of all form. So they have graffiti artists, they have tattoo artists, they have DJs, they have rappers, they have producers, even MMA fighters, right? >> That is rocking the the emblem. And um the nearest one to me was the one the collective in Thailand. So I became friend with Willie because um the the founder that is based in Canada said you know what why don't you work with him because he is struggling in terms of finding artists >> to to match his speed of production >> because he produce quick. >> Yeah. and he only have one artist and then he's growing his artist uh pool and then uh I said dude like if you want to work with me like you got to pay me like for my time because like I I I freelance >> I [snorts] don't have the >> paid leave. >> Yeah. You don't have a regular job right? >> Yeah. So for me it's like I I do every things that is legal in my capacity to earn money. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, if you want me to spend some time in Thailand to to work with you, >> Yeah. >> I'm not going to charge you, but pay at least for my uh accommodation and plane ticket. >> Yeah. >> And my meals, that's it. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, the the longer you take away from me, the more expensive expenses on you >> Yeah. >> Right. So, I said, I'm letting you control this. >> Yeah. >> Right. Not going to charge you a single scent, >> but do this. >> No. and and he did. >> I love that. What's the biggest creative risk you've taken so far? >> Creative risk? Um, >> actually recently I took this risk. Uh, I I never write a Chinese song ever. >> Oh, nice. >> So, I decided to to kind of step out of my comfort zone. >> Good for you, man. >> And and I I'm not sure it's going to pay off or not. >> Doesn't matter. You started. You got to try, man. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's like, so, so this is pretty recent. So, and Willie loved it because he produced the song. >> Okay. >> Then he said, "Dude, try this." >> I love that. >> So, I'm like, "Okay." And then he paid for the MV. We just I just came back actually. >> Good. >> Yeah. >> What's one acting role that you'd love to play, but you haven't played thus far? >> A superhero, >> mate. I love that. What powers would you have? >> Anything. I just want I just I just want my kids to be like that's my dad. >> Wow. >> On screen like a superhero because like they they have >> they keep saying like why do you always play the villain? I'm like I've been type cast as a villain. Like what can I do? You know [laughter] >> like but it's not that I >> you want to you want to do something different. >> Yeah. >> Who doesn't want to play superhero? I'll tell you this story. I don't know if you heard of it. Russell Crow was being interviewed by Joe Rogan >> on his podcast and he was filming a movie in in the UK. >> Mh. and behind him there was a rugby game and he was watching it in between takes and there was one boy the boy was they were about 12 years of age and he saw this guy and he just said that that guy's he's the best player on the pitch he knows what he's doing just mental note anyway later on at the end of filming the boy came up and he asked him for an autograph and he signed it Henry and uh have you heard this story it's a great story so signed it Henry and then Henry asked him how did you get into the movie business and he just thought the guy was very cerebral. Obviously wasn't just a great player, understood the game. That was his observation. Anyway, fast forward many, many years later, Russell Crowe is playing Superman's father, right? Uh what is it? Jurorel. Call Jurel, sorry. Khal's Superman. And um he sees a guy training in in the gym um in the leadup to it. And after about a week, he fin this guy finally came up to him and he said, "Hi, how are you?" And he said, "I I recognize you from somewhere." He said, "Yeah." And so he's playing Superman. It's Henry Cavill. And Henry said, he said, "Have we met before?" He goes, "Yes, I met you when I was 12." And he was signed an autograph. And he said, "You're that Henry." [laughter] And it blew his mind. Can you imagine? >> Wow. >> What a story. Yeah. What an absolute story. And then another funny story linked to that that my son told me about Henry Cavill, his niece or nephew, I can't remember which was at school and Oh yeah. And and he and he said my uncle is Superman. And then the the teacher called the mom to complain, right? And you know your kids got to stop lying about what says his uncle or her uncle is Superman. I wanted to read this one thing to you. I put I put this up the other day. There was a there's a playwright um that died uh last week uh the late great Tom Stoppard and he was in a he wrote a play that I acted in but this one bit struck through because children grow up we think a child's purpose is to grow up but a child's purpose is to be a child. >> Yeah. uh you post that recently that just because I thought that's meaningful because there are times where I'm conflicted because I know like my 16-year-old daughter just got a part-time job and I'm I'm really happy that she's doing it. She's going to learn a lot from that process and you don't want your kids to go through hardship but the reality is hardship shapes you going through toughness. Exactly. It shapes you. Um to wrap up, are there any projects that you're working on? And tell us, you know, for the people that want to hire you, acting, rapping, coaching. Go to my website, leroka.com. You'll find all my information there. Like I I do act. Um I do rap. Like I charge uh $100 per song. Locally, no minimum overseas. the minimum three songs as long as you pay the accommodation and the the the flight uh is 250 per song. Okay. >> Minimum three songs, right? >> Okay. >> So, I don't want to waste your time. I don't want you to just hire me for one song overseas. >> So, and moving forward like I'm starting uh a podcast with a group of friend where we going to >> you going to have me on the show mate? >> Of course, bro. Like you you will be one of the first few guests, I think. >> I love it. I love it. >> So, um it's called run your mouth. >> Mhm. >> So, just what whatever gripe you have with the industry that you have, >> [ __ ] it. Lay it down. >> Lay it out because like for me change start with >> highlighting the problem and becoming the solution to that problem. >> So, there are a lot of problem in this world. So I think by starting that podcast, we want to highlight like what's the problem from being a foot panda rider all the way to a CEO. Like what's your problem in your industry? >> Love it. >> Run it. Run your mouth and see if we can come up with a solution for it. Right. >> I love that. >> So uh that's another project that I'm working and like I said moving forward with these few friends of mine that we're going to do the podcast. We're going to start this nonprofit which we hope to turn into a charity organization. Good >> because like as a charity organization in Singapore, whatever donation you get is tax deductible. >> So my point is like I already know so many business owner >> like why not I benefit you by >> you know donating to us you can claim your tax deductible. >> Yeah. >> Right. So for me like it's a win-win for me and my friend because we are trying to provide uh creative education for free to the underprivileged right because that is my main target and then eventually hopefully it branch into a a social enterprise because like I said troubled youth is not just on the underprivileged >> they are other side of the spectum the board man across the board. So, so for me it's like to get um funding from the government we have to target a specific audience and no one is doing this for the past 5 years that I've been pitching. >> I've been pitching this idea to a lot of like um charity organization and I realized that they they already have their hand full. >> Yeah. You got to run it. You got to drive it. >> So I'm like, you know what? Like why not I be the solution for it, right? Let me just start this and and hopefully like it will solve the drug issues that we are having in Singapore because like I think bully and drug goes hand in hand. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Right. Because bullying is just people trying to impress other people that are you know is the wrong circle in the first place. But you have no one to kind of gravitate or build with. That's why you are in that circle. Yeah. >> Right. So for me, I'm trying to solve this bullying and and drug issues by like recruiting people with the same passion and then work towards it. >> I love that. >> Right. >> A raising tide raises all ships. >> Yeah. So for me like I have people that uh like I know how to do podcast. So we because we are starting a podcast and we're going to teach them how to do a podcast for free as well. Uh not just doing music. I have friends who are barber. He said like once you start that let me know because I can teach barbering for free. I'm like great love it. >> So I start to find people that are willing to to teach these underprivileged people uh the set of skill that will take them away from that uh useless environment. >> Yeah. >> So I'm like let's do this you know. >> Well Daniel unlike your song which is about many men. and I've met many men in the course of my 48 years on the planet. But you've got a unique story, a unique voice, and I appreciate you sharing it today, brother. >> Oh, thank you for having me, >> man. It's been a pleasure. Do you enjoy it? >> Ah, love it. >> It's [laughter] the beginning of a long-term friendship. For sure. >> For sure. For sure. >> All right. Thanks, Daniel. I appreciate you. >> Always welcome, Paul. >> Cheers. >> Cheers. [music] >> [music]

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