Kevin Iole: Boxing Hall of Famer on Ali, Tyson & 46 Years Ringside | #68

Well, I guess you'll be the first person I can then introduce myself saying this. I'm a boxing hall of famer. I I was a journalist uh for 46 years and I mainly focused on covering combat sports. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh and I got my start there. Covered a Larry Holmes world title fight which was kind of a thrill. I was the first person in my family ever to go to college. Right. So, I came um from a a poorer background. >> You know, my family wasn't wasn't wealthy. when I moved to Las Vegas, uh, and I've lived in Las Vegas for close to 40 years now. Uh, when I got into Las Vegas, and of course, you know, at that time really, it deserved the title of fight capital of the world. The only person I think in my career that I was starruck was the first time I met Muhammad Ali in person. >> Wow. >> Um, you know, that was like I saw God. I missed him as a fighter, right? And I started he he retired in ' 81 and that was I started covering fights in 80. I covered Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Erns, Roberto Durant, Oscar De La Hoya, Floyd Mayweather, Felix Trinidad, all these great welterweights. I've t interviewed five different presidents and you know been all these different countries all over the world and the things I've seen and the things I've done and we talked about Muhammad Ali and journalism got that for me. Steve Jobs is back there. So I walk back and um she says, "Mr. Jobs wants to speak to you." Kevin Nioli, the man, the myth legend. How are you, buddy? >> Thank you for having me, Paul. I'm doing great. >> It's fantastic to see you. Now, for for the few people around the world that are not in our sport of boxing and MMA, just can you give a quick introduction as to who you are? Just a quick one because I want to turn back the pages of time of your amazing career journey. >> Well, I guess you'll be the first person I can then introduce myself saying this. I'm a boxing hall of famer. >> What a shocker that was, right? Um, but I I was a journalist uh for 46 years and I mainly focused on covering combat sports. Um, and I retired uh in June of 25 after all that period of time. Uh, probably I'm most known to people for my time at Yahoo Sports. Um, I worked uh in Las Vegas. I I was born and raised in Pittsburgh and I got my start there. covered a Larry Holmes world title fight, which was kind of a thrill, you know, for me. That was not my first fight, but my first big fight. Um, I went from uh Pittsburgh to uh Burlington, Vermont. And when you want to be a uh a fight writer and you live in Vermont, you got a lot of work to do. So, uh yeah, >> you know, I didn't get to do a lot of fighting when I was in New England. But what I did was, you know, I went from uh Burlington was about a mile, excuse me, an hour uh south of Montreal. So, there was always a few title fights and and big fights in Montreal. So, I would drive to Montreal to cover those fights. And then occasionally, you know, Boston was about four hours south of us. And so, occasionally I would go in uh south and go to either Boston or sometimes Rhode Island for fights and do that. So, you know, I was able to get every year when I was in Vermont a number of fights that were entertaining and that I was interested in. So, I kept myself in it. And then when I moved to Las Vegas, uh, and I've lived in Las Vegas for close to 40 years now. Uh, when I got into Las Vegas and of course, you know, at that time really it deserved the title of fight capital of the world. And I covered fights, you know, pretty much ever since. >> What an amazing journey. You know, it's funny because I so I'm half Chinese, half Irish. I grew up in England, but spent a lot of my time in Ireland cuz my dad was Irish. And the first time I'd ever heard of Pittsburgh was from the famous John Ford movie, The Quiet Man, starring John Wayne. Have Have you seen it? >> I have not, but you got to watch. >> I love John Wayne. >> Oh man, it's an old school classic and it's a very different John Wayne movie. But why I mention it is in one of the opening scenes, he's on the back of a a cart drawn by a horse and he's come back to Ireland, but no one knows who he is. And this fellow that's picked him up is actually a guy that used to look after him. So he looks at him up and down. He says 6'6 and John Wayne says four and a half. And then the fellow says Cincinnati and he goes no Pittsburgh. And that was the first time I'd ever heard of Pittsburgh. And now I'm talking to a pit a Pittsburgh native. Yeah, I got I have a lot of Pittsburgh memorabilia. This wall I have over to my left here full of uh Pittsburgh memorabilia. So yeah, no, I'm I'm a Pittsburgh native and a proud uh fan of the Steelers, etc. >> Well, whilst you tell me a little bit about this, if you don't mind, I'm going to spark up a cigar because >> do it. >> This this is a big day for me and I'm loving this. Um, so you you grew up and then how did you decide that you wanted to do it your your degree in journalism and comms because you obviously knew early on that that was the chosen path for you? >> You know, it was interesting. Um I grew up uh in the 60s and 70s and especially in you know the early 70s Watergate happened. Um you know so that was something that was really in the news and unlike today and with President Trump uh demeaning the media and everything. You know the media were heroes back then because you know exposing this corruption and everything that the government was doing wrong. And so I I was really into that, but I was always a person that loved to tell stories, right? So I remember I used to go to bed at night and if there wasn't a game on the radio or whatever, I would lay in bed and I would interview myself and I would be a star player and I would, you know, ask a a cliche question, of course, and then I would answer it and, you know, I would the next day I would sit down. I had an old typewriter and I would write about the interview I did while I was laying in bed and I always made myself the hero of games, you know, making the diving catch to win the baseball game or, you know, sinking a 70 foot putt to win the Masters or, you know, whatever sport I was playing. I was always the hero. But I love sports and I always wanted to be involved in sports. So, you know, it was two things that I was passionate about. So, it was never really um a question whether I was going to do it. It was just something, okay, how do I uh get the right way? I was the first person in my family ever to go to college, right? So, I came um from a a poor background, >> you know, my family wasn't wasn't wealthy and and and all that. And so, you know, they nobody really, you know, understood like it was always said to me when I was a kid, you're going to college someday. >> Wow. >> But there was never this like um hey, let's talk about your goals and let's talk about what you want to do. It was just you're going to college. Make sure you get good grades so you can go to college. And uh I wanted to do journalism. I love sports and I wasn't good enough to play. So that was that was the thing that I did. Well, you know, it's not easy because most of us grow up loving sports, but then the realization sets in that, you know, maybe it stops at high school and and then the fact that you've made it your living is amazing. Now, I I know because I'm a fan of yours that your dad, I don't want to get you too upset, but but he brought you into boxing and I'm just curious, tell us a little bit about that, but if he was looking down at his boy now, you know, and if he was to look back at your career, he would just say, "My boy did it." Right. my dad like you know it it was embarrassing in some ways and I'm proud of it in other ways because you know he would be talking to a friend about myself or my brother and my his friend would be talking and he wouldn't be listening to what they were saying he was thinking about what he was going to say next to brag about my brother or myself right love it >> and um he was my dad was always like starruck that was one thing I'm lucky that I haven't been right you know when I've you know the only person I think in my career that I was starruck was the first time I met Muhammad Ali in person. >> Wow. >> Um you know that was like I saw God. >> What what year was that and and where were you? What were you doing? >> So I I missed him as a fighter right when I started he he retired in ' 81 and that was I started covering fights in 80 and so I was covering low-level fights. There was a Howard Johnson's hotel uh in the town where I lived and I worked at the paper in that town. I had a part-time job at the paper. I was still in college when I got my first job. >> Okay. >> And I said, "Could I cover the um the fights that they and they did it once a month." And no, of course, nobody wanted to cover the fights. To me, boxing was a big sport. So, I it was a way for me to be involved in in what I considered a major sport. So, I covered those fights. So, I missed all Lee. So, I didn't get to cover him as a fighter. So, um this was not till much later that I actually met him in person. And um it was a uh a hearing for Mike Tyson at the Nevada Athletic Commission. And they and because you know it was Mike Tyson and all the halaloo, they had it at the uh at the county commission, the government building that was very big and where a lot of people uh were able to sit. And I'm walking in and there was a guy uh that I had met early on when I moved uh to Las Vegas named Jean Kilroy. And Kilroy had worked for Ali all his life. You know, they had met at the Rome Olympics and they made a friendship and and Kilroy became Ali's business manager, but he was kind of known as the fix it guy, right? He did any, you know, whatever Ali needed, he did. And they were friends from from 1960 until Ali's death. And so I became friends with Kilroy and we would go to lunch and, you know, he would tell stories about Ali and I I would, you know, just, you know, kind of be in awe of all these stories and the different different things. So as I'm walking into this um hearing, Kilroy is at the side of the building and he sees me and he says, "Come here." And I I had done a TV interview. What did I expect to happen? local one of the local TV stations uh was going live on their noon news. And so I they wanted me to go on and kind of preview the hearing and what I thought was going to happen. So I'm a little later getting into the building than I want to be. And Kilroy is if you know Kilroy, you don't say no to Jean, right? Yeah. And I want to get inside and he's like, "Come here." And I said, "Jean, I got to get in the hearing." He's like, "Get over here." And I walk. And as I walk around the corner, the first person I saw was Lonnie Ali. >> Yeah. >> And she was sitting down and she was kind of turned, you know, at a little bit of an angle. So she was blocking who was behind her. And I took one more step and I went >> and it was like I saw God, right? It was him, of course. >> And um >> that was a day he was at a period of time in his life then where some days he could speak and some days he couldn't. Yeah. >> And that was a day that he couldn't really speak. So he reaches up from his chair and he pulls my ear kind of to his mouth and he said, "You must be the greatest based on what my friend said about you." >> Wow. Are you for real? What the? >> And I was like sitting there going, "Oh my god, wait till my dad hears this." Right. That was the first thing I thought of. Yeah. And you know, I I was looking at him and it was like, I cannot believe who I am looking at here. And that's the only time in my life, you know, I played golf and Michael Jordan was in a group behind me. No big deal. Um, and all these celebrities that I have met, actors, and I I've met presidents and you know, all a lot of bigname people I've been fortunate to meet uh, I don't want to say no, but to meet in my life. Ali is the only one that had that effect on me. You know, it's interesting because obviously I did a podcast with the great Jim Lampley and Alli completely shaped his life. It was his, you know, his childhood hero. And um and then when I read Jim Gay's book, I met Jim Gray when I was in Vegas. And uh and he talks about how he inadvertently ended up interviewing Ali, which was his first big interview, and it's just the the man changed the game. Um I'm I'm curious a little bit about >> how so what happened? So you you finished university, you did your BA, your degree. What was your first gig? >> So um I started uh working at this paper in Pittsburgh when I was uh the Valley News Dispatch. It was a a company, the company that does USA Today, Guanette, um was the publisher of that paper. So I got a part-time job um there. And so I was working in college and then I I had my uh part-time job and then I immediately went to full-time uh when I was graduated and I was there for probably about a year, a little over a year and then um the economy in the US at that point was really bad and people were losing their jobs and Pittsburgh was really particularly hit by it. So, the editor of the paper said to me, "Hey, look, you know, I I'm not going to tell you you're going to get laid off, but you know, layoffs are coming to our paper. You're young, you know, so just put two and two together, and here's a really good paper in our chain, and they're looking for somebody, and I think you would be perfect for that." >> So, he said, "I'll recommend you if you if you want the job." He goes, "That way you'll still be in the company, and you know, blah blah blah blah blah." He goes, "If you want to stay here, we want to keep you, but there's no promises what's going to happen." Yeah. >> So, I went to Vermont and um you know, my life changed in Vermont. It was a good It was a good place for me to go. Totally different. I've never been in a place like that, you know, small. >> It's so quiet and you know, it's beautiful though. Stunning. But you're in the middle. You feel like you're in the middle of nowhere. >> The most amazing places I've ever been, right? Um and wonderful people. I still think today, you know, uh how many great people I met in Vermont and but it was different, right? And um >> so I kind of came of age in Vermont and I >> imagine sorry to interrupt. Imagine if you were in able to go and watch um Sugar Ray Leonard against Juran in Montreal. Imagine if you were able to cover that fight back then. >> Yeah, >> that would have been cool. >> I have that painting Leroy Neman right here up >> right there. Wow. >> I I moved to I moved to uh Vermont in 1982. So I just you know I just missed um and would have been great to be up there. But a funny story about that fight is I was so convinced that Sugar Ray Leonard was gonna win that fight, I bet my entire paycheck on Leonard to win. And I I was a kid that wasn't making a lot of money. >> What were the odds? >> I was like, "Oh, this is going to double my money." >> Yeah. >> What were the odds? Do you remember? >> I don't remember, but I my my paycheck was I think I want to say it was like $180. And that was a fortune for me back in those days, right? And that goodbye. But listen, it's uh maybe Las Vegas was a a bad place for you to be in then if you're going to spend double down 100% of your salary. >> Yeah, I think I learned my lesson because you know I I've I've put I've been here close to 40 years or more than 40 years and Yeah. And and I have bet a handful of times, right? So I I've lived here. It's been great. I've taken advantage of all the great things about Las Vegas, you know, a wonderful city. Um, great restaurants, great shopping, a lot of stuff to do. Of course, for me as a fight person, you know, it's been phenomenal and I haven't been sucked up in the in the gambling aspect of it. So, you know, so that's been a really good positive for me. >> I absolutely love that. And then and then tell us about your arrival um into Yahoo Sports. Was that your next gig? >> Yeah, I started at the Las Vegas Review Journal. So, I got um >> Okay. So I married a woman uh in Vermont. She was a doctor. She finished her residency in Vermont. And so when she uh finished her residency, she had job offers in a number of cities. So as we were looking at uh where to go, she had u offers in Chicago and uh she had a number of offers, but two of them were Chicago and um Las Vegas. And both of them had multiple newspapers at the time. So, we figured, okay, let's focus on them because that'll give me a better chance at getting a job. And the reason we went to Las Vegas was because both papers had openings. >> So, we moved to Las Vegas and I had applied at both papers. Um, >> but then the smaller of the two papers, the Las Vegas Sun, they wouldn't even interview me. So, I was like, you know, I'm I'm moving to Las Vegas. You don't have to fly me out. You have an opening. I've got experience and they wouldn't for whatever reason they wouldn't even interview me. And so I thought, oh, and then I had um sent my resume to the other paper, the review journal, and I hadn't heard anything, right? And so I'm like, man, this is kind of a all of a sudden one day um I was staying in a hotel because we're waiting for our furniture to get shipped uh shipped out. Yeah. >> Um >> I get a call and I find out it was the sports editor of the Review Journal. I went and interviewed that day. It was a Friday and I was working on Monday. >> You know what that but it was fortuitous in the end, right? It was meant to be. >> So I got lucky. Yeah. So it was really really something. >> And then and then you know you had such a a great early career. You won quite a few awards. When did you realize that you know this was this was really your calling? I mean did you know it from day one or or did you have a lot of uncertainty until you you reached a certain period in your career? >> I was always confident in what I did. Right. But I never I was never cocky or arrogant. I I don't think to this day like I'm retired now that I made it or I did, you know. Um Right. You know, it's just >> You mean what do you mean you didn't know? Surely I I've got to I want to come I was going to bring this in later, but >> you're there. You've you've uh you're looking at the list of nominees for the Hall of Fame. tell us the story when you're looking at and you're thinking you've got a message saying I've got to uh you know probably sit down and write something about this. When did you realize that wasn't the case that you had actually been called to the Hall of Fame? >> Well, you know, so I this was this year was or 25 was my second year on the ballot. So I was on uh the ballot last year did not get elected um as I didn't expect to get elected. And one of the things that I've done every year was um I would write a article on somebody being inducted into the Hall of Fame. The executive director of the Hall of Fame would call me after the uh announcement of who was uh being inducted and say, "Hey, would you write a story on, you know, Floyd Mayweather or whoever whoever it would happen to be? Would you do a story for us for the program?" And I I did that every year. So, uh, you know, this year, um, I happened to be at my ex-wife's house and I get a phone call and I saw it was from the Hall of Fame. So, I thought he was calling to ask me, you know, hey, will you write an article on? And so, I'm trying to think as I'm answering the phone, I'm trying to think, who does he want? I'm going, yeah, probably Golovkin. Because I was close with Golovkin, so I thought he's probably going to ask me if I want to do a thing on Golovkin. And he he says, Kevin, this is Ed Brophy. I said, "Hey, Ed, how's it going?" He goes, "I just called to congratulate you." And when I heard the word congratulate, I was like, "You got to be kidding me." Like, I was not I literally was not expecting that. And so I was like, for a minute there, I was like, >> "What am I listening to?" Right. And he's talking and I miss, you know, a big chunk of what he says because I'm I'm like so shocked at what what I had just heard. >> Wow. And then you were sat next to Triple G, Tarava, and my one of my favorite fighters of all time, Nigel Ben, because I I grew up in the UK. How was that? You're sat next to these legends. >> Well, that's coming up. So, we have the Hasn't >> Oh, it hasn't happened. >> Hasn't happened. So, um >> Yeah. No, I It's a good class that I get to go in with, right? So, I was especially close with uh Triple G, right? I covered a lot of his fights and we became close early on when he moved his base from Europe uh to the United States and I was friends with his promoter. I was very close with his trainer. I played golf with his trainer um uh Abel Sanchez a ton. >> So um I I was in with that camp really well. And so you know being so going in the whole thing with Gennady I covered a lot of uh Tarver's biggest fights, right? So being, you know, being fun, you know, obviously Nigel and then his son Connor, you know, so you have kind of a So that was a really cool uh that's a really cool classic win. So the the ceremony is is I mean not not until June. Okay. >> So it was like >> I had to figure out like so am I a Hall of Famer now, but they already have a plaque up for me in the Hall of Fame, right? Yeah. So I'm a Hall of Famer now, but we get our informal induction in June. >> There you go. I mean, my one of my favorite fights of all time, and it's not really talked about much, is when Nigel Bellan beat Mlelen, you know, and uh that was that was a savage savage fight. Talk talk to me a little bit about um you know, some of your father's values and you know, how you know, would you say that your love for boxing was stronger than baseball or football growing up? And how did that all come about? Did boxing find you? >> My my dad was fought in the army. Uh my dad was in World War II. Um and he fought when he was in the army, was a big boxing fan. So, you know, my first memory of seeing a fight was Ali. Um I can't remember if it was >> either Ali Clay or Liston, right? So, I don't remember if it was one or two because I was a young very young at the time, but it was one of the Ali listen fights. So he was Cash's Clay for the first fight, Mom and Ali for the second fight, and I don't remember which one it was to be. I'd be lying to say I knew. But then the first fight I went to in person, I grew up in Pittsburgh. There was a fight at the Civic Arena in Pittsburgh. Um, and it turned out to be Sugar Ray Robinson's final fight. >> Wow. I didn't know. >> And my dad took me to Now, nobody knew at the time, like I of course I didn't know it, right? I was what I think I was five or six years old. Uh, but my dad wanted to go to the fight and his excuse was it was a couple weeks after my birthday. So his excuse was I'll take Kevin told my mom, "I'll take Kevin for a birthday gift." Right. He wanted to go to the fight. >> I love it. I love it. >> You know, he he tells mom that that was the reason that we were that we were going to the fight. But yes, I got to see Sugar Ray Robinson. And of course, you know, I don't remember anything about the fight, you know, of course. But, you know, it was just the fact that when I look back on it now and I hear people talk about, well, I saw this guy fight and I saw this guy fight and I think of all the great welterweights and they say, "Yeah, you know, I covered Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Earns, Roberto Duran, Oscar De La Hoya, Floyd Mayweather, Felix Trinidad, >> all these great welterweights, >> but also Sugar Ray Robinson. He was kind of a a good fighter there." I mean re really when you when you think about it in terms of actually boxing prowess he's he's arguably always rated as the number one right >> I don't even think it's arguably right to me what he accomplished record um >> and you know what he did and how many Hall of Famers he beat it was over 20 right forget champ you know Floyd talks about I'm not dogging Floyd because I think Floyd was a was and is a great fighter >> you know but Floyd talks about how many champions he beat Yeah, >> Rocky Mar I mean, excuse me, Sugar A. Robinson beat Hall of Famers, you know, 20ome Hall of Famers, let alone, you know, how many dozens of champions? >> Really, really crazy. So, who who are your top five fighters that you've you loved watching? >> Well, you know, the my favorite fight I think if I ever talk about that I covered has to be Corales versus Castillo, right? Because >> I I was very close with Diego. I I had a good relationship with Jose. Not not as close to Jose because of the language barrier, but I I I was clo I covered a lot of Jose's fights, right? Um and I knew that fight I I remember I was at Corales's house before that fight happened and the fight was signed and he was getting ready to train u up on near Mount Charleston, which is where the area kind of where I lived at the time. And he said to me, "I will walk through the fires of hell to win this fight." >> Wow, that's blood cuddling. >> And then you go back and you look at what that fight was and it was crazy. Like one of the great fights of all time and the ending was so dramatic. And then for me, what was so personally sad, two years to the day later, I get a call saying there's been an accident and I hear that Diego Corales was involved. And I drive up and there's Diego, you know, laying on the road, his body covered uh with a sheet. Um his wife Michelle was standing there and the angle that I had, there was a spotlight that was on his body from the street. It was about 8:00 at night. >> A street light um put a spotlight on his body and you can see Mandalay Bay in the distance where two years to the day earlier was the greatest night of his life. And now, you know, I see him laying on the road and that was like the I I I'll never forget that because he was such a good kid >> and he had troubles, you know, he was a troubled guy and but he had he was a big-hearted kid who wanted to help everybody and wanted everybody to like him >> and to see him, you know, he was riding his motorcycle and it was a it was a flat road for miles and there was just this one bump and why that bump was there um and he hit that bump pump and he went flying and he landed and hit it in the back of a car, hit his head and broke his neck and you know that's how he passed and it was just it was it was awful. >> You think of that? >> Yeah. Really really tragic. Um there I mean there's so many I mean it's funny I didn't grow up with this era but I watched it the the Fabulous Four and I mean I'm a Marvin Haggler guy you know I you know I absolutely love Haggler but I do when I look back at those guys and what they went through it's difficult to pick them because you look at Jirean he was smaller than everyone else um and then Haggler was bigger but we were just blessed and now I I do feel there's a resurgence with boxing and one of the things I've always admired about you is you don't hold back in your interviews and you hold people accountable, but you do it with class. I mean, you've interviewed Dana White many, many times and and I always felt that you held him accountable, but you did it in the right way. >> I appreciate that. You know, I I kind of feel like and especially with boxing, right? I got criticized by some people saying, "You're always being negative." And I said, "I'm not being negative. I love this sport and I want to see it surv not only survive but thrive. >> Yes. >> And and so you got to, you know, I wouldn't have been doing my job if I didn't call out the pro what I saw as the problems. Yeah. And especially as I've been doing it for a long time and you'd go and one of the last articles I did, I wrote this uh for keyn.com >> in uh I think it was February of um 25. I one night was just searching YouTube, just having fun just looking on YouTube and I come across an interview with Rocky Marciano, black and white interview and I it was a multi-part um multi-o interview across and he said something in there and he was talking about the problems in boxing in 1965 and the problems in boxing that he cited in 1965 were the exact problems that we talk about today. Right. Yeah. And so it was what was it 60 years apart. And so I wrote an article about that. I got tremendous response to it, right? But it was just like I'm thinking we're not fixing these problems. And so that's why I I tried to, you know, like I had a great passion for both boxing and MMA and I still do, >> but you know, I felt like, especi, you know, not that MMA didn't have it share of problems, >> but they were trying to do the right thing and they were making moves in the right direction. And you see boxing, you know, fighters getting stripped to titles and championships keep getting added and the public doesn't know who the hell's the champion and, you know, the fights weren't getting made. all these different things, you know, drug problems in the sport. Um, you know, it just it was outrageous and it's still I mean they still have a lot of that stuff. >> Well, that's what I love about what you know cuz I'm I'm a career coach and a head hunter and you know what I've tried to learn to do is how do you ask the difficult questions without coming across too negative, but you're trying to get to the truth and you're trying to get to understand what the values were behind everything. And you did that. It's it's such a difficult way to handle that, but you just did it with real class. I I I have to say >> thank you. >> Yeah. I just kind of feel like you know you know you're not doing your job if you don't and sometimes you know like especially in the internet and you know when all the press conferences are on live like I grew up at the beginning when the press conferences were private and we were working and then we put the news out afterwards and I it's great for the people to be able to see it all going on but now they're critiquing your job performance when they don't know what we're doing and they don't understand right and so it's it creates a little bit of angst for people now that it didn't create before because you didn't have that, right? You know, now everything you say, you know, they make you stand up. They, you know, a lot of times they put your name on the screen, but people know who you are that are fans of the sport and they're watching and, you know, it just it's unfortunate like I, you know, I've always been, you know, sunshine is the best disinfectant and so, you know, like let people see. But having said that, you know, it's difficult to feel like an after the fight, you know, um especially for me like people would say, "Oh, what a stupid question." I have an angle I'm trying to work toward and so I'm trying to, you know, work around and get an answer in a certain way. And sometimes the guy picks up on what I'm saying and answers it and sometimes they don't. You got to keep, you know, searching around and people don't, you know, that was kind of one of the frustrating things. People didn't understand sort of what we were doing. and we're work, you know, we're working. >> Um, >> so that that was a frustrating part of my job, I have to admit. >> Just just explain to the audience members that may not have sat down live to watch a boxing event versus an MMA event because, you know, you can go to a great UFC event and you'll have five hours of a on a stat card where the fights are just amazing. But in a boxing match and a world heavyweight title fight, it's only the last two fights often that are good and then the the arena is empty for half the evening. Just explain the contrast and what your take was being there live for so many great events. >> Well, you know, you nailed it. Like you would sit at a a major boxing match right off the bat, I think of Canelo versus Triple G, right? Both of those two first two fights that they had were just, you know, not the last fight, but the first two fights. Who do you think Who do you think won them? >> I I thought one was a draw and they and the Triple G won the other one and then Canelo of course on that third one when Triple G was shot, you know, Canelo won. But >> you know, they were close fights and they were great fights. But what you know what the problem would be in boxing is like you said, you know, there wouldn't be even matchups, right? Promoters would put good fighters on the card, but they would match them with guys that they knew they would they would be. And to me, that's not helping the fans. That's not helping the fighter. Because what you want to do is you want to me, you want to challenge your fighters. And so, I'm not saying that you go out there and you take your best young prospect, whoever it is, and you say, "I'm going to match him with the toughest fighter in his weight class next, because, you know, that's not always best for his development." But like, I think of what Bruce Trampler did with Floyd Mayweather, which to me was genius. And they knew when they signed Floyd out of the Olympics that Floyd was going to be a star. >> Yeah. >> But they also knew, you know, that he had some things to to learn. So when they matched him in his early fights, they they looked at very specific things. Like one fight that I covered of his and a guy that nobody would remember, but it was a really key fight for him was a guy named Tony Pep. >> And Tony Pep wasn't a particularly good fighter. um you know just a you know average guy out there um but he was tall for the weight class 130 pounds he was tall he was leaning he could punch and who was in Floyd's weight class that was tall that was lean and that could punch >> you go Carales right so they wanted before they made the fight Mayweather versus Carales they wanted Mayweather to have seen a fighter of that ilk they put him in you know with lefthanders so he knew what that was like. They put him in with pressure fighters, they put him in with runners, and he saw all these different styles of boxing. So that when Floyd finally, you know, Floyd of course grew up, he was so talented, he became, you know, elite very quickly in his career. By the time he was ready to fight at the championship level, nothing phased him and he was completely and to me, they weren't putting him in with bums. They were putting him in with people who would challenge him. And that was a master class. But what you got what you get too much is, you know, you look and all you have to do is look at the odds sometimes on these cards. You would get a young fighter that was a hot prospect and he's - 5,000 -7,000 because the opponents you know they couldn't beat you and me and you know they were they were bums. Yeah. And so you know you're fighting and so the the fans aren't getting anything because they're seeing a first round knockout or you know a one-sided boring fight. not competitive. The how is the fighter learning from that, right? In most cases, the fighter's not. And so, to me, that's a huge mistake that's been made in boxing. >> Yeah, that that's interesting because the whole developmental stage, but that being said, if if you look at MMA, you're just you're just thrown in with the Wolves early on, very early on. It's a completely different construct. >> Well, you know, I remember um Lorenzo Fertida uh was the owner of the UFC. Uh great man. uh um in the early 2000s and Lorenzo said to me, you know, Dana and I were both huge boxing fans. Lorenzo, for people who don't know, had been on the Nevada Athletic Commission, he was a boxing commissioner. Yeah. You know, um >> and he said to me, "What Dana and I did was we took everything we loved about boxing and kept it. And the things that we thought needed to be fixed, we try we tried to fix those and change it. And one of them was matchmaking." And so they don't necessarily have guys fighting the toughest guy in the division all the time, but the fights are usually evenly matched, >> you know, and so when a guy is coming up, >> Yeah. >> he's fighting guys that are at his level >> and, you know, so as a result, you know, you're learning. So when you get to that world class level, you're ready and you're not, you know, overwhelmed and you don't get, you know, you don't get drilled the first time that you, you know, you step up to a a big main event. >> Which do you look uh forward to more, you know, boxing matches or MMA? It's tough call, right? >> You know, yes and no. Because uh I love them both. You know, I was always a boxing fan. And so how I answered that question toward the end of my career was I said if you gave me two great fights and I knew going in that they were both going to be fight of the year candidate fights probably boxing for what reason they're going to be longer right we're going to get 12 rounds two guys going out there as opposed to five rounds. Um but you know I knew on a regular basis when I looked at cards and I'm saying okay if I I could cover this boxing card or I could cover this uh MMA card. >> Yeah. which is going to be a better card, which is going to have more fun fights, where there's going to be knockouts and submissions, MMA. And so I would look forward to that. So I when I was kind of doing both and that it's tough to do both sports and there, you know, there's some crossover, but there's not as big a crossover as a lot of people think, right? I think that'll develop more and more over time, but even right now the crossover is not as big as people think. And so as a result, you know, I'm covering boxing and MMA people think, "Oh, what's wrong with you?" You know, you're with the old guys and I cover an MMA show and, you know, you're a traitor, you're, you know, you're you're covering that and I'm trying to do the best thing for my employer, whether it was myself at the end of my career or Yahoo or whoever it was, cover the fight that's going to have the most interest uh traffic uh to our site. >> Well, well, that's what that's what the UFC have done so well. When you look back at your career at Yahoo, what what are the standout two or three things that you look back and say, "I really enjoyed those moments." >> When I first started at Yahoo, so my Yahoo I was at Yahoo a long time, >> but when I first started, they basically said the they were just getting this wide site started, right? So Yahoo had been out there for a number of years, but now from a sports standpoint where we're creating our own content, hiring all these top writers, >> it was, you know, they were just starting that. And basically, I was told, "Write the best stories, find the best stories, cover the best fights, doesn't matter where they are, do it." And so it was like, "Wow, I can do." And I was hired to be the boxing writer. And I said, "We got to cover MMA, too, right? We got to get that on." And then MMA became a huge part of >> of what they did. >> Yeah. >> But, >> you know, Paul, from, you know, from my standpoint, it was just like I could go anywhere. I could do anything. And I think of all the places that I've been, you know, I've covered fights in Asia. I've covered fights in Europe. I've covered fights in South America. I've covered fights in North America. you know, every major city on earth basically I've been to to cover um you know, you know, uh Russia for um you know, uh fight. I mean, it was nuts, right? I got to do all this stuff. >> Can can I ask, you know, share what you can? If if it's sensitive, then avoid it. But how does it work? Do they sit down and give you a budget? I'm just so curious like do you plan your own travel and entertainment costs? How does the whole shebang work? >> Yeah. No, no, no. Um you know, everywhere you go, you're going to have a budget, right? So when I was working for the Review Journal, we had a lot smaller of a budget and a lot less of a travel area that I, you know, I could go to. And so the we had to make a pitch. Hey, this fight if it's not in Las Vegas and I'm going to go to that fight, this fight is going to be cost effective for such and such a reason. Yeah. >> And here's what I'm going to be able to do. you know, in in uh when I was at Yahoo, you know, it was like I never was presented with here is, you know, you have $100,000 to spend this year. It was like, okay, just make your arrangement, let us know you're going to the fight. And and I've I was never told I think one time in my career at Yahoo, I was told, "No, don't go go to this particular fight." That's amazing. >> For the mo, you know, for the most part, like I'd say, "Hey, I want to go here to cover this fight." And I went there to cover that fight. How does your ticket cost get paid for? Who pays for the >> So, they had an online travel agency. So, we logged into a database. I would, you know, book my flight, book my hotel room, um, and then have a company credit card on the road and we would, you know, charge, you know, charge on a card and just fill out our expense report when we got back. So, yeah, it was it was it was easy. >> And then talk to us because, you know, my this this podcast is all about career journeys. talk about your renaissance when you found out that you were leaving Yahoo and what was going through your thought process because one of the things that people come to me a lot about is oh I don't know what to do I need stability there's insecurity and I always say look at the end of the day you don't owe your career to anyone you owe it to yourself and you got to back yourself and as an entrepreneur you know I've learned that over the last 20 years but maybe you could talk on that >> yeah you know I I got laid off um in December of 2023 about a hundred some people got laid off the day I did. >> Wow. >> Um I woke up. I had no clue what was going to happen and my boss called me and he said and his voice was cracking and I was very close to him. He was a great guy to work for. I mean Johnny Luton, love him, you know. I love him to this day. Just a fantastic person to work for. >> And he called me and he said, "Um, I there's a Google Meet call at 9:00 a.m. and I need you to be on that call." And I said, "Okay." Okay. And he goes, "Do not be late. Be on the call." And I said, "Okay, I got it right now. Don't worry about it. I'll be on the call." So, I kind of figured, you know, what it was about. And I could tell his tone of voice and his voice cracked as he was talking to me. So, I figured I was being laid off, but I didn't, you know, I don't know for sure. And as I'm sitting there, all of a sudden, people start popping on the screen and it goes from just me, I was the first person on to, you know, over a hundred people. And I'm going, well, they're not going to fire me in front of a hundred other people, right? And this idiot that fired us, right? The only bad thing I would ever say about Yahoo is this guy gets on and he says, um, we have been talking about the new course for Yahoo. And you've heard heard us say, uh, that here's our new we have a new plan for Yahoo. All of you on this call, we have determined that your skill sets don't uh match our our new course. So, we are everybody is laid off as of today. >> [ __ ] >> Uh do do not report to work. We will give you um and then he went into um talking about how much uh severance they would give us and you know blah blah blah. Never said thank you for your service. Never. You know, and so there was people on there that were cursing at him, right? I said no, I'm not going to do that. You know, I just kept quiet. >> Wow. and but there were people bleep you and you know and and all this and you know he went on and then he didn't even bother to take questions he said you know there was one woman in the middle of the screen and we all thought she was one of the ones fired she happened to be an HR person that was watching the screen and they said okay he said all right so you know what I don't remember her name Mary's here and if you want to Mary will answer questions and so poor Mary's now having to talk and everybody's in a bad mood and cursing and everything and it's month before Christmas, right? >> Oh, yeah. >> Um >> terrible. >> So, just just terrible timing. So, I um I got off the call and I called Johnny back, my boss, and you know, he was now openly weeping. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You know. >> Yeah. >> And um but you know, I said I at that point I was thinking about I said I could retire now, but I didn't want that guy who was so callous. Yeah, >> I understood why I was making a big salary and they were downsizing. >> I got it. >> It's how you do it. >> How you do it, it's how you deliver that information. >> Correct. And that was my argu that was my problem. That the I loved my time at Yahoo and I love the people I work with. And that's the only bad thing ever at Yahoo. And it's a pretty bad thing right the way it is. Yeah. >> Um but you know I I kind of felt like do it more. I had been there so long I was the most senior person that you know was laid off that day. Yeah. >> Um and I was one of the most senior persons in the country in the company excuse me because the you know Yahoo was a young company so there had been a lot of turnover in the early years. So when I got there you know I I was there for a long time. I was one of the more senior people in the entire company and not forget about sports the entire company. Yeah. And I don't even get a private, you know, thing with this guy. He's fire me on a Google Me call withund and some other people, you know, >> and brutally I I felt that. So I just said to myself, I don't want this dude to dictate how I end my career. >> Yeah. >> So I thought about, okay, do I want to go work for other people? And I got a lot of phone calls from people in the industry. I bet >> um that were great. And I thought, you know, I want to work for myself for the end. Um, and so I I started kevinoli.com. It was six weeks to the day. And I have right here. >> What do you have there, Kev? >> This is my site, the first day of my site. >> Wow. Sugar. >> Was that Sugar A? >> That Yeah, that was me and Sugar Ray. >> Oh, amazing. >> And yeah, and that was the first day of my site. Thanks for sharing that. >> And I felt like um you know I I I loved it. So I worked 18 months. My first year was phenomenal. I made a lot of money. My tra, you know, my traffic was building. So I had a lot of stories that did really well and I had a lot of stories that did really poorly, right? You know, like I'm going from Yahoo and I had this baseline. And I knew I'm going to have, you know, a good baseline of traffic on every story I write. And then I went to work for myself and I'd have stories where, whoa, what is going on here? But then every now and then I I would hit and I had some really big stories, right? Yeah. So, and it grew and I made a a um a good amount of money in my first full year. >> Amazing. >> I was really And then my second year, it kind of like it it kind of different. You know, one of the companies that was a big advertising supporter of mine went out of business. um Google redid the way they were doing traffic for smaller websites and so that that hurt right so a lot of things conspired. So the second year I was sitting there and my I was turning 60 u well I was already 65 >> and I was just I said to myself is this worth it anymore? I'm banging my head against the wall and I could have hung in there. I I was enjoying the work but I was I was working for sign I was costing myself money at that point. and I was spending rather than making. >> That's what people don't understand. You you it's costing you money at that stage, >> right? And I and I just kind of felt like, you know, is it worth it? And I just couldn't get um to a position where I was able to run it the way I wanted to I wanted to run it, you know, and I wasn't able to go to the fights outside of Las Vegas. That that hurt, you know, because I couldn't afford the expense on my own. People think, "Oh, UFC, you're boxing promoters are flying you all over." No, no, we're paying for for that. You know, I know some UK reporters, uh, that, you know, the their rules are different and they and they would accept those kind of things, but, you know, we we did not do that. So, I, you know, I wasn't able to go to the shows and that, it kind of sucked, right? Now you're losing because you don't get the same sense when you don't see the fighters on the road and you talk to them and they see you at the press conference and they see you at the fights and they see you at ringside. You know there's they know, you know, and you lose those backstories that you get from being there >> and then your finger's on the pulse, right? You're engaged. You're walking the floor. >> And I just kind of felt like um I said, you know, probably the right time. I've had a great career. Um, and I so I I made what was it? UFC 317 my last show. And it was a it was a great show. That's why I made that particular show the one. And it was I knew on paper it was going to be a really really good fight card. And I just >> Well, you know, when you announced your retirement, I I mean, everyone was surprised. It was like everyone felt that it came out of nowhere and was showing you a lot of love. That's that's what I noticed. >> Yeah. I I was I was grateful to that. and my you know my final you this is a funny thing I took a picture of myself the final night um fight was at T-Mobile Arena I got up so I was sitting in the front row there so it was like 10 feet to the octagon right so I got up I put my back to the octagon I took a picture of myself with the octagon in the background and I posted it on social media and as always happened you know there's always nasty people out there some guy Mandy you look horrible you you know blah blah blah and he's commenting on my looks And normally I would have been mad and not said a word. And so I go, "Believe you." And I let this guy have it. I'm like, "I'm done. This is my last night. I don't have to worry anymore." And I just bury this guy. Right. >> Love it. Love it. >> Never. And never, you know, he of course didn't respond another thing. You know, all these fake tough guys. >> I absolutely love it. Well, one of the things again that that, you know, I admire so much about you is kindness. you have always been very humble and you've always thanked the people that have helped you along the way and you've helped other people. Can you speak about that because I feel that in this doggy dog world that's often overlooked and it shouldn't be. >> Yeah. You know, like I I kind of feel like journalism gave me a a great life, right? Like I I have honestly I'm 66 years old as I sit here talking to you today and I've had a phenomenal life and I've seen and done things that I could never have imagined as a sports fan kid in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, right? what I've gotten to do and the people that I know and you know I covered a round of golf that President Clinton was playing golf and I I I've t interviewed five different presidents and you know been all these different countries all over the world and the things I've seen and the things I've done and we talked about Muhammad Ali and journalism got that for me right and and so I I want to give back to the uh to journalism so you know all my career like if anybody ever reached out to me I always felt like I would do um you know try to help them as best I can. Um you know sometimes you get somebody reach out and they say they would say hey I want to uh do what you do. I'm a big MMA fan. And I say okay well and now here here's the disconnect because everybody has access to the tools that they can do it. What is your skill set? What is your background? Do you want to be a full-time journalist or are you just a fan who wants to Right. I still would try to help you. >> Yeah. >> But there was a big there was a big difference. And then you know somebody would send me that you know I would say write give me something you've written so I could see >> and then I would see this and I'd say okay I got to treat this person a little differently than I treat you know treat this person. But I would say to people I would say okay you want to be a journalist. Um, do you want me to critique you like you're working at Yahoo right now or do you want me to critique you like you're at at a small newspaper with a circulation of 10 and you're just getting started or, you know, YouTube, whatever, you know, whatever the case would have been. Um, but I felt like I owed it to the business, you know, that was so good to me. >> Yeah. >> To try to help and try to, you know, get people, you know, um, to follow their dream. when you when you look back at some of the best fights that you really love, like what are your favorite boxing matches that that you've covered and MMA fights? I'm just curious because you've seen so many. Do any stand out? >> Oh, so you know, so I I'll forget more than I remember, right? Because there's so many over the years. Um certainly, um you know, I mentioned Carales Castillo. You know, one of the best fights that I ever covered uh was Riddickbo versus Vander Holyfield one. That fight uh was just >> crazy. >> Insanely good in the 10th round of that fight, you know, was crazy. >> You know, the um the Tyson Holyfield 2 fight, not that great of a fight, but I'll never forget that fight as long as I live because all the chaos that that happened um you know that night, right? And >> Skipper, you know, you know Skipper Kelp, right? >> Oh, of very well. >> What a wonderful human being. But I had him on the podcast and we got along really, really well. got so much in common. But um he said in terms of electricity and he's been to a lot of fights like you have, he said nothing was like the Holyfield Tyson 2 fight. He just said it was off the charts, you know, it was just buzzing. You can you speak on that? Was it crazy? >> I I I think the two from from an atmosphere standpoint, >> yeah, >> the two fights that stand out and neither one of them turned out to be a great fight was Tyson Holyfield 2, right? Because Mike Tyson was so big. Holyfield, like if if you eliminated Tyson, Holyfield was massive, >> but now he was like a little speck compared to Tyson. Like Tyson was bigger than almost anybody in sports. I mean, he was up there with Michael Jordan and people like that, like the greatest iconic figures in other sports. >> Yeah. >> Tyson was right there with them. That's how big Tyson was. >> Yes. >> Um and then you got Holyfield who is is huge in boxing. So, you know, they're fighting. It's And then people loved heavyweight. Those three things were just, you know, like insanely, you know, made it a big fight. And then Mayweather Pacquiao, right? Now, Mayweather Pacquiao, the fight sucked and it was a lot of stuff, but like I I was sitting next to Tim Doberg from the Associated Press and the main event, it was like 20 minutes before the ring walks and the lights were flashing and then I tapped him on the shoulder and I said, I said, "Look at this place." I go, "We're sitting here. This is our Ali Frasier, right? We're the modern boxing writers and this is our Ali Frasier and you know it it was just such a a moment right you know you're out there um on the MMA side I mean there's so many great fights you know Robbie Lawler Rory McDonald >> wow you know uh Shogun who had Dan Henderson yeah um I mean I think of all these great fights and great moments you know u that I've seen you know one of the ones that sticks out to me not is again not as so much as a great fight but Anderson's over breaking his leg against Chris Weidman. You know Anderson had been so invincible for so long and then his reign ends and you know he has that happen. So just just you know but so many great events like to to be a part of and to see. >> Can you can you explain to the audience you know what you are seeing when you see these guys going into battle because they are modernday warriors. um you you know like if if we were back in in Roman days, what are you seeing? Because it's unless you've been to a live fight, you can't talk, you can't really relate to how visceral that moment is. But do you see a lot of do you see guys are calm going in, you see the the you know the the the psychology change. >> I I covered in boxing seven fights where a fighter died >> in person. I' I had many others where I on TV where I had to write about later, you know, um and so you know what the risk is like I know firsthand what the risk is what these guys are taking and it's even different where you're sitting in the arena like the further back you get and you don't have to get too far back to lose this but when you're right up where we are on the ring like first row, second row, third row and when they get punched you hear it and you know and it hurts. It's like you're, you know, you're going like this and you're and when guys are getting punched, you know, you're going, "Oh, you know, you don't want to see somebody, you know, you're there because you love the fights, but now the the real human cost is is happening." And so, yeah, like you know, I mean, we're sitting right there and we see guys get kicked in the head in MMA and elbowed in the face or, you know, just a hu, you know, Mike Tyson, left hook and, you know, good night Irene and you're right there and it just it I mean, you hear that flap and then and then a guy goes down, >> you know, you don't forget that. >> Well, the thing is, you know, if you look at boxing, all the major injuries have probably been like super middleweight and below. And I think don't think people talk about it enough. It's because of the whole dehydration because it takes in theory it takes 24 hours for the body to rehydrate but 48 hours for the brain to rehydrate. And that's why I think you know even in even in the last Connor uh Connor Ben Eubank fight. I I I did think to myself that that that was the borderline issue. Do you know what I mean? And you know Eubank was really banged up after that first fight which no one really talks about >> and he was dehydrated in that first fight. He missed weight. That's the thing. That's the thing, right? So, it is it is crazy. Um, and then so when you look back at some of the more colorful people that you've interviewed, like have you been I remember watching Jim Gray interview Mike Tyson um after the Holyfield 2 fight and he was scary, you know, like he was like Jim Gray got to hand it to him. He he stayed in the pocket during that interview. But what are some of the more memorable interviews that you've done? >> Well, I I did an interview with Tyson that was kind of funny because it was during the pandemic. >> Okay. And um you know that was right when the pandemic first started and so you're looking for content you know that I mean nothing's happening. The world is shut down and people want content so we're you know so I got a hold of Mike and I did this interview and he brought he brought this up. I didn't even bring it up but a story that had happened. He was getting prepared for a fight with Clifford ATN. >> I Okay. >> And Clifford Do you remember Cliff? >> Yeah. ATN, you know, not great. >> The rhino, >> the black the black rhino. And at ATN was not uh the greatest fighter that was ever out there. You know, he he he had some pop in his hands, but he could be hit a lot and you knew going against Mike Tyson, he you know, he's going to be in trouble. So, couple weeks before that fight was made, I had written a column and I had praised Tyson. And I get a call uh one day and a guy says to me, "Um, Kevin Mike Tyson." And I looked on the phone and I had Mike's phone number and this wasn't the number that I had. >> And I'm listening. I'm going, "This is not Mike Tyson." So I go, "Yeah." And he goes, "I just want to thank you for this article you wrote." So I'm playing along with it for a while. So finally, like he's going on and on and I go, "Dude, this is the worst Tyson impersonation I ever heard. Click. And I click I hang up the phone. >> No [ __ ] way. Are you serious? >> So now let's let's advance two or three weeks and I get invited by Mike to come watch him train. So I get to the gym and Meg Ryan, the um actress. >> Yeah. >> She was there. I didn't recognize her at first who she was, but I walk in the gym. It was the Golden Gloves gym in Las Vegas. Freddy Roach and Mike were in the in the uh ring hitting mids and I see this pretty woman with a photographer was a photographer shooting pictures and me. So, um Tyson's pointing at me when he's in the ring and I'm not quite sure like what he's what he's meaning by this. So, after and Tim Dolberg from the Associated Press was also there. So afterwards, we're um walking into the locker room and the locker room was so small. It was really meant for one person and so there was the five of us, right? Freddy, Mike, me, Tim, and me. >> Me. >> So we walk in the locker room and Meg is kind of first and so she's worse off because now she's getting squished into a corner and Mike immediately drops his pants >> as he does. >> Like he doesn't, you know, he's not worried, right? And so she's like, you know, like that. And then he starts talking to her about her mother having tigers. And she says, "My mother didn't have tigers." And he goes, "Yeah, I talked to her. Your mother I know she had." Well, it turns out he mistook Meg Ryan from Melanie. >> Melanie Griffith. Yeah. >> And Melanie Griffith's mother had tigers. Tippy. >> So Meg Ryan's thinking, "Flip it out." Yeah. >> And like So she's sitting there. So now then Mike turns to me and he goes, "Kevin," he goes, "I called you the other day trying to be nice and to thank you for uh the nice article you wrote on me and you hung up on me and treated me like an N." And my eyes bulge out. I go, "That was you?" So I did that interview with him, you know, many years later, and he's laughing. He goes, "Do you remember that?" and he said to me on the air and that that that interview is still on Yahoo's YouTube channel, >> check it out. >> Yeah. Was in 2020. He said, uh, it was toward the end of the interview. He said that was the greatest story anybody ever wrote about me. So that was so, you know, made me feel good that, you know, even then he remembered that, you know, remembered that. >> I love that. Well, one one of the things I I like some smaller things that you've done that I think are very meaningful to the fighters. I saw an interview when I was doing research for today. um where you sat down with Buddy McGurt and he said to you, you know, when you had a very your very first meeting with him or interview, he said, "I know I've made it because I'm I'm sat here with Kevin Ioli." Um and I mean, he's he had an amazing career and you know, as an amazing trainer. Um but I I think those moments, the smaller, more quiet moments, they must really hold a special place in your heart, right? it you know like when you feel like you connected with somebody personally >> you know sometimes as a journalist in a subject they don't want to be bothered so they don't want to talk to you or sometimes they do want to be bothered but your personality and his personality don't mesh even maybe just at that particular time right but when you hit and I think of you know Freddy Roach was one of them I mean I covered Freddy when he was a fighter into when he became the greatest trainer you know and Freddy was always honest and I felt like, you know, you can't be friends with them in the sense of, you know, hey, let's go out and go drinking, but you have a relationship with them that that endures. And I had a lot of fighters like that. You know, Diego Corales, Floyd Mayweather, you know, I was up and down with De La Hoya. Sometimes, you know, we loved each other. As he got bigger, he he was less happy about criticism. So, you criticize him and he was less eager to forgive you, right? Well, well, you you see the crazy side to him in the last decade. It's like it's a different Oscar de la Hoya. >> Yeah. It's, you know, it's not really that different. It's just now it's out there, right? >> No, that's true. That's true. I mean, the the the fishnet stockings, I mean, imagine if he walked into a fight wearing those and some high heels. That that probably would have sold even more tickets. >> And and he it was funny when I was in my plane crash that time. Um, we were flying up to Big Bear. Uh, >> what happened? I didn't know I didn't know about this. >> So, he was getting ready to fight Fernando Vargas. This is going to be a massive massive massive fight. >> What a great fight. >> So, um that was what was it 2002 or 2003. >> Yeah. >> And 2002 because my dad died in 2003. So, I remember uh just before >> it was before before my dad was dead. So, 02. So, um, we were flying up to, um, my colleague at the newspaper at the time, he and I were flying up to go to training camp and interview Oscar, they had media day and we were going to do this whole thing. Um, so then Bob Arum on the morning of um, the uh, media day, he calls and he said, "Hey, I have a couple extra seats on the plane. Do you want to fly with us? We have a private plane flying up." So, we said, "What the hell?" So we we jump on the plane with Aram. We're in Big Bear and we're landing at the Big Bear airport which was tiny and the guy across from me, his name was Royce Fior. He was one of my colleagues. Um he said he made the comment to me that we're exactly on time. So I'm across the aisle from him. I turn to my right and I look out the window and we're at the top of the redwood trees and we're just coming down. >> Yeah. And I go to look back to him and as I do, he was facing the back of the plane and a guy that was facing him says, "Hang on, we're going down." And next thing you know, boom. And there's just like really hard bang. And we hit the ground. And then a lot of smaller uh bumps and then one bigger one, another like the first one, bang, a second one, some smaller ones, and then we stopped. Well, it turns out we were going too fast and we went too far down the runway, so we crash. Then we hit a fence. So, we skid into a fence that it was the end of the um air airport. We break the fence and there's a pickup truck coming down the road. So, we're going to collide with the pickup truck. So, to the pilot's credit, he pulls the nose of the plane up, >> the pickup truck goes past. Then the second big bang we felt was when the um plane, you know, the slam back on the ground and we skidd it into a dry lake bed. It it was the city was called Big Bear Lake City and there was no lake because it was in a drought and it was just a dry lake bed. So we land in this dry lake bed and I'm sitting there and I go, "Man, this pilot sucks." Right? I still didn't even at that time realize that we crashed. I'm thinking this dude was like didn't realize really you this is the worst turbulence ever. >> And I'm like this is like the worst pilot. This dude doesn't know what he's doing. So we're stopped and the same guy that yelled, "Hang on. Uh we're going down." He he yells at that point, he goes, "Get off the plane. The wings are on fire." So I just did this and I can see sure enough the the wings are burning. >> Wow. >> So I get up and the co-pilot comes out. He's the first one out and he o tries to open the door of the plane. Can't open it. Then he shoulder blocks it. He can't open it. So he grabs there was like a a coat closet. He grabs a handle on a coat closet and I don't know what he grabbed on the right hand. So both of his hands and he gets his double legs up in the air like he's doing a pro wrestling flying dropkick and he picks the door and it b it bursts open. So the co-pilot goes out the I was facing the back too. The guy that was had his back to me. He gets out of the plane and I'm number three. So the fire was the wind was blowing the fire away from us. So we're 10 feet from the wings, but the it's blowing the other way. So you don't even feel it, right? It's like so it's okay. So I'm waiting for Royce to get off and Royce had was the only person that had and he wasn't really hurt badly. He went to the hospital, was treated and released, but his seatelt wasn't working. So when we wrecked, he got thrown around the plane. >> Wow. When the plane stopped, his head was on my leg. And immediately I'm going, "What is why is he not getting up right away?" And before I could even act on that, the guy said, "The wings are on fire." So I pushed him in his seat and I got up. So now he should have been behind me and he's not. And I'm like, "Roy." And then all of a sudden I hear BOB ARUM GO, "GODAMN IT, ROYCE, GET OFF THE PLANE." And so, you know, Bob has that baritone voice. >> Yeah. So I I took one step back into the plane and I see Royce, you know, he was kind of shook up and I grab him by the wrist and you don't realize how your adrenaline is going and I grab him by the wrist and I yank him and I probably pull him like 20 ft out. So we're all sitting there 20 feet uh away from the plane, counting how many people were there and everything. And then all of a sudden, here comes the fire department and they go, "Get away from the plane. It's loaded with fuel." >> So we run. We're in this dry lake bed. We run across the lake. What do we get? 250 feet away and the plane blows up. >> Bang. It goes ba boom. And it just goes. And so >> savage. >> So now we're sitting there. So that's why I mentioned when I was trying to remember when it was, I said my dad was alive because I remember thinking my dad was really deathly afraid of flying. And I said, "Should I call him or should I not?" And I wasn't gonna call him until I got home to Las Vegas figuring. But then all of a sudden, I see the TV truck start coming in and Bob Arum is on our plane and I know it's going to be a big story. So I have to call my dad to tell him, "Hey, I'm safe. Don't worry." So we end up we get over to D La Hoya's house and most of the media is already there. >> Aram is not there yet. So they they sent a couple cars to get us and I'm on one car and I got lost track and error. I wasn't sure where he was. So I get there >> and all the media runs on me. So I'm like being interviewed by all the media and there's like maybe 50 guys, right? And they're talking and it's kind of cool. You know, I'm standing with all these microphones in my face and then Bob enters the property, but he enters at a different gate and everybody sees it and they run to Bob. They leave me and run to Bob. So, finally Bob's done with his interview and we uh go in, you know, for the uh interview in Oscar's house. And because I was being interviewed by so many people, I'm kind of like far in the back. So, I'm going to take a seat in the back of the press section. And Lee Samuels from Top Rank, their PR person. He grabs me. He walks me to the front and there was a dude sitting in the front row and he says, "Just get out of here." And he makes the guy get up, right? And I still don't know what's going on. And he makes this guy leave. And then he puts the seat right next to Oscar. I mean, literally right next to him. And he goes, "Here, sit here. This is your seat." So I sit in that seat. And then Oscar looks at me and goes, "How do you wraith uh getting that kind of seat?" And I go, I flew all the way up here and I almost get killed coming to see you. And you got to ask me that. >> What a listen, what a great story and what a great storyteller. Um there are a few just last few things I want to wrap up because I know your time is precious. Um in is in business in life storytelling is so important. Can you talk about the art of it? Is it something you ever sat down thought about and studied >> because you're great at it? >> I haven't. You know I I'm a I write stories so that was something but when I'm telling stories like I just taught now like I what I've always tried to remember think of and I think what helped me is I remember details. Yeah, >> little details kind of help you in the story like when you're talking about the the stuff that happened. And I've always been, you know, um observant of details and those kind of things. And so that has helped me being able to kind of fashion I I have a lot of really funny stories that you know that have happened and I and things I remember over the years and I'm able to tell them in a way that gets a gets a big you know hoot uh um sometimes I think because of you know that because I'm able to combine the details and then build the story in a way you know I'm not giving the punch line away right away you know so that I think that's been something you know, has been good for me. >> Well, that's the thing, right? You need to have a beginning, middle, and an end. Um, talk to me about, most people may not know this, but you're a bit of a tech geek. >> I, you know, I've always loved um technology, right? >> What are you recording on now? Cuz the camera's moving when you move. What are you using? >> Um, I have a MacBook Pro. >> Okay. And it's like my c my the camera that I normally use to do my interviews is this Sony. And today when I I haven't done it for a while, it wouldn't turn on for me. And so I'm not sure what was going on. >> No, no, but I'm using the web I'm using the webcam today, but that's center stage. So it's moving when I move. >> Yeah. >> Which I I should have turned that off. I wasn't >> I like it. I like it. >> Um but yeah, so I have a MacBook Pro and an Apple Studio display that I mean not a MacBook Pro. I have a MacBook Air here and Apple Studio display that I'm on. But I I was always a tech person and I loved Apple stuff in particular. Like I got my first Apple in ' 86. >> Wow. >> Um >> and so when the Apple store started opening, I went to an Apple store and I was like, "Oh my god, I love this." So one day there was they started building an Apple store in Las Vegas and I I asked my boss at the Review Journal I was working. I said, "Is it could I get a part-time job here?" They said, "Well, if it doesn't affect your work, you know, so I went and I interviewed for a job. So I got a part-time job at the Apple store and then I ended up teaching classes, right?" So before like now they have the whole studios and everything. >> Yeah. >> They used to have I taught this getting started class and I had this thing with Steve Jobs came to watch me one time. >> No way. >> Yes. >> Really amazing. >> And what what happened and this this was like a crazy um thing when I watched they asked me to watch the one of the other kids do the class the first time. And so I watched and there was like three people at the class and he was following the script and I read the script that and the script was terrible and it was like a commercial and who would want to you know go to this class because you're just being it's just you're being sold you know a product you're not learning anything right you're just you know there so I I went to my boss and she had asked me would would I teach this class and I said well I'll teach it if I can teach it my way. >> Yeah. And then she goes, "Well, what is your way?" And I said, "Well, I want to teach it." And you have to remember this was back in O2. So, you know, Windows was still dominant there. It was still five years to the iPhone. The iPod had just come out and Apple was getting attention because of the iPod, right? >> Yeah. >> And so, I said, I want to show people how to do things, how to hook up your printer. Like, people in those days didn't know how to hook up a printer, right? You don't think about it now. It's like, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's easy. back then, you know, or people don't even have printers now, right? You know, but but back in those days, you know, people were printing their things. Um, and so I said, I want to do that. So, I always would teach my class and I would try to teach them something that would be useful to them that day. So, we started and word started spreading and I I ended up getting like three and 400 people coming to these classes. Wow. >> So, one day >> I'm giving the class and I don't know if he came. I don't think he came specifically because of my class, but I am doing the class and you know I was at the Genius Bar and the Genius Bar was shut down when I was doing the class because there was so many people crowded around and huddle around. We we took up literally half the store. And I look to my left and I see Steve Jobs walking in. He's everybody's got his back turned so nobody sees him. And he goes and he sits in the back and he does this and he's like right in line with me. >> And was was he wearing his famous black polo kind of >> turtleneck and jeans? >> Yeah. Turtleneck >> and sneakers. >> Love it. Love it. >> So, you know, I see him there and I'm thinking this can't be good that Steve Jobs is right here, right? But, you know, and he came in. Now, I don't know if he had security, but there was no obvious security right there. you know, the CEO of Apple just walks in the freaking thing by himself and he's standing there with his arms folded staring at me. So, you know, I'm I just said, "Screw it." You know, I don't need this job. And if he doesn't like what he does and he wants to fire me, let him fire me, right? You know, I'm doing it because I I want to learn about tech and I love I love technology. So I do my whole thing and then I used to take uh questions at the end and that particular day we had a bigger crowd than normal and I was getting questions forever. Like it was like an hour after and I'm still answering questions. >> So finally the the class ends and I'm cleaning up and getting ready to take my lunch break and I look and I see my manager of the store and she's like like come in the back. I need to see you. And I look at her and her face is like pale as a ghost. So I know what happened. Steve Jobs is back there. So I walk back and um she says, "Mr. Jobs wants to speak to you." So I walk in and he's you know in the back it's not very luxury or anything, right? It's mostly uh equipment that they're selling, you know, all the merchandise. And she had a tiny tiny little office. So he is behind her desk and I walk in and I said, "Hi, Mr. Jobs. I'm Kevin Ioli." And I stick out my hand and he just leaves my hand out there like doesn't shake my hand back. >> He doesn't acknowledge me. And the first thing he says to me is he goes, "Do you think you know more than the uh marketing people who work for Apple?" I said, "No, sir." And he said, "Do you think you're more intelligent than the people who have uh come up with these course designs?" I said, "No, sir." And he goes, "Then can you tell me what you were doing out there?" And I said, 'Well, sir, I was asked if I would do the class and I saw there was next to no attendance. I said people were not engaged. They were getting up and leaving during the middle of the class and I didn't think it was really accomplishing anything. So I thought, hey, why not do it a different way where I might make it practical that they learn something and hopefully realize that we have great computers that will do what they want to do. I said, "Everybody thinks, you know, Windows computers are the only machines that work and that you can do work on, and I wanted to show them otherwise." So he goes, and he just dismisses me like that, and I and I was gone. That was it. >> Wow. What a story. You've seen some life, brother. Um, final parting words if you were to give any young journalists or just, you know, people coming into any form of business now that wanted to be brave and not go the traditional route, what would you suggest to them? >> Do it and believe in yourself, but also be aware of what it takes, right? Um, don't go in naively. Like I when we talked before about me helping young journalists there some people would say I know more about MMA than everybody anybody that was their qualification right they're MMA fans and they watch it and they think that they that's not what makes a good journalist right >> and so you know but and then also be diverse in your skills right you may think you I want to do X and you know if you're um you want to be a sports writer like I did you may say hey I want to be the writer for the Dallas Cowboys and maybe it turned out you you know you become the writer for Manchester United, right? Or or you cover golf. You you never know what it's going to be. So be diverse and then also be be multi-skilled, right? Especially in journalism, you know, because it's such a tough field right now. Yeah. >> You know, learn h learn learn how to do multimedia, learn how to do, you know, like if you can write even though there's not a great appetite for writing anymore, right? Good writing will get read and writing helps you in all sorts of aspects of your career, right? So, make sure you know how to do that. But know, you know, know the field that you're getting into, know the requirements, know what it takes, and be able to do multiple things. And if somebody calls in sick that day, I can do this guy's job. >> Yeah. And show you can do it. So, >> what did what did you >> What did you do? Sorry, Kev. What did you do to develop your craft? Because one thing that I think is overlooked in all areas of work is developing your craft, putting putting in those foundations. So what did you do? >> I so I was a big fan of journalism as well as a journalist myself. And so I read everybody who was out there. So you know Jim Murray to me is the greatest sports writer who ever lived. And I read his columns from when I was in high school before that before I was in high school up until he died. Right. I mean, for 40 years, I read Jim Murray. I sat next to him at the Tyson Holyfield two fight. It was like I was sitting next to Babe Ruth, right? Yeah. I mean, one of my literally one of my idols, and I'm I'm next to him at the fight >> and he wrote a phenomenal column at night. But I I tried to look at their work and look what they did and what made that story good compared to mine and what did I not do that they did and what tricks did they use in their story, you know? So, most of my career was stories, right? writing toward the end, you know, I'm doing th this kind of stuff, podcasting and talking and interviewing. And it's different interviewing on camera. >> Yeah. >> Than it is if you're doing an interview for print. Like if I know it's only a print story, I'm interviewing in a different way than I am if I'm on camera. Yeah. >> Um and there there's a a certain skill set that you have to have to do this compared to do that. And so just learn, you know, I tried to just be immersed in all that kind of stuff so that then I would know, hey, this is something that I can try to incorporate. I didn't want to be anybody else. I did not want to be Jim Murray. There's only one Jim Murray, but I wanted to be the best Kevin Ioli I could be. >> Well, you certainly accomplished that and you've had a legendary career. Um, to wrap up, just because I'm a fanboy, talk to me a little bit about the memorabilia because you've got you can't see quite on camera. You've got a WC belt up there, some boxing gloves. Talk about what's in your your home study. Well, I h I have a library in the other room, too. So, I have two. And I have in that room, I have mostly pictures of me with a lot of the fighters that I met on metall and and on in here I have a lot of paintings. because I have a lot of Leroy Neman's or Neman type photos, you know, I bought some knockoffs, right, that were there. And then I have signed gloves. So, I have a glove up there by Ali. I have a glove by James Tony, a glove from Holyfield. Um, one of my favorite fighters, Alexis Arguo up there. Um, you know, I I have a ton of Ali stuff, right? I have some where I have hand wraps. I have handcuffs that President Obama gave me. >> Wow. Really? >> Not hand not handcuffs. Um, um, what do you call them? uh >> for your shirt. >> Oh, cufflings. >> Cufflings. Yeah. What am I saying? Handcuffs. >> Cufflings. I was going to say >> cuff cufflings from President Obama that that he gave me. Um I I have those up there. >> So all you know, a a lot of that stuff, you know, that I got Mauricio Sullean gave me the belt and he said to me one day, he said, "Who are your uh favorite fighters?" And I said, "Ali, Leonard, Mayweather." Um, and so when you look, you know, the WBC puts the picture of the fighter on there. There's Ali, Leonard, Mayweather, and me. >> Amazing. What a wonderful gift, Kevin. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure and um you've you've given us all great stories. I appreciate you. >> You got it, brother. Anytime. Thank you. >> Thank you.

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