From Two Time National Athlete to Gold 905 Radio DJ: Sophie Gollifer | #61

I won sports school's first national title in front of the whole school. >> Amazing. >> At the old turf club and it was in the [music] papers and everything. My name is Sophie Golifer. I am a radio presenter with Gold 905. Um it's my first morning show. It's called the Breakfast Club. I won a couple of um international school titles for Crosscast Country. I'm a mother of three and a fitness enthusiast. This morning we ran 22k. I decided at 16 that I wasn't going to do this full-time. It was almost impossible for me to beat it in coming years. That's how it felt. It got to the point where I was just completely shattered. Um, I wasn't sleeping very well. And it just felt like if I couldn't pull this out, I wasn't going to be anything. [music] And when I decided I made the decision, I felt relieved, but also incredibly sad. It felt like I had failed. And it was a horrible feeling. It actually led me after leaving sports school to not wanting to eat because I wasn't training twice a day. But at the time, it felt like end of the road, game over. If I can't train regularly or do something regularly, I can't function. We go on air at 6:00 a.m. We get off air at 10:00 a.m. So, I'm up at 4:30 [music] every day. My husband has committed to waking up at 4:30 every day to [music] wake me up so that I'm never late. >> What a superstar. >> And then he'll go for a run. We're running our first marathon together. >> Really? >> Soon, pregnant or not pregnant, I've been training. I hope that it will show my girls and my son as well that, >> you know, it's okay to work hard, to suffer a little bit. It's good for you. My daughter's teacher said to me, she's really sad cuz >> Sophie, how are you? >> I'm good. I'm nervous. Thank you so much for having me. >> Really? Why are you nervous? You you you get on the radio every day for a living. >> I do. I'm a host. That's what I do. But um I'm rarely on this side of the mic and um you never really know what's going to happen. >> Well, listen, relax and enjoy. We're not having a Do you want a cup of tea or water? Okay. >> Good. Water's great. >> All right. So, look, for the few people that may not know you in Singapore, you're well known, but maybe Yes, you are. Can you give a quick introduction as to who you are before we turn back the pages and just find out about your great journey? >> Of course. My name is Sophie Golifer. I am a radio presenter with Gold 905. I've been with them, this is sort of my second time back in radio. I've been with them for about nine months at this point. Um, it's my first morning show. It's called The Breakfast Club. I do it with Gerald Co, who is my co-host. I'm a mother of three and a fitness enthusiast as well. >> I absolutely love it. So, like you and I have a lot in common in many so many different ways, but I want to unpack it. So, where were you born, raised and go through that whole your mixed heritage as well? >> I am. My father is um half well he's British, his father is um from Essex in England and his mother is South American from Guyana. Okay. So he's already mixed and he met my mom when he was working in Singapore and she's Singaporean tio. >> Okay. >> So I was born in the UK and I sort of did the whole schooling experience there and I if I think back I'm thinking ups and downs straight away. I mean it was in a lot of ways we were very close family. We still are. I'm one of five. >> My poor mom she she went through she had a bit of a tough time in the UK. She was very isolated. She had no friends. And I have so many incredible memories. Uh my father worked incredibly hard and I remember when I was younger he was still getting a masters in uni so that he could set us up for a better life. And at that point in time I remember we were on benefits in the UK >> and this was in Essex. >> It was in Essics in a >> explain what benefits means to the Singaporean crowd that may not know >> assistance from the government. And sometimes we do talk about this and my dad says I think that's precisely what benefits are for >> a period of time to get a family through a difficult time and that's kind of what it was. But not knowing anything back then it was the best childhood. >> Yeah. Life was so simple. >> You wouldn't know the difference, right? It's all relative. >> You wouldn't. No. We had like a mattress as a trampoline. [laughter] We spilled a pint of milk and my dad was like, "Oh no Get the camera." But it was it Mom was like, "Oh, no. don't have milk for the rest of the week. Now, it was that kind of situation. Things were really simple. Our lives were simple. But dad said we we'd never been happier. I mean, since that point, which is a huge lesson and something I try to think about sometimes when I'm stuck in the comparisons of, you know, now we have social media, so many things going on, and you sometimes just have to look back to realize what a good position you are in >> and where you've come from. >> Yeah. And I just have tremendous respect for my parents. The thing about benefits that always have very mixed feelings about it because I grew up with a lot of kids that had were on benefits but the thing is their parents I hate to say they chose not to work and a lot of the kids I grew up with they like I had high-tech trainers throughout school I never had >> that's a high-tech trainer >> it's a low tech training reality it's not like it was really it was from Freeman Hardy and Willis they were the cheapest types of trainers that you could get >> they had no support they kind of like pimple But so I never had like an Adidas or a Pum or a Nike or whatever. And then all my friends that were on benefits whose parents didn't work and weren't paying taxes. I always felt like these guys have got trainers every other month. >> It was just it was I had so I had mixed feelings. Then I had friends that really needed the benefits. Yeah. >> And so what was really weird where I grew up >> um so my mom worked for the London bar of Harrow. >> Okay. >> But we lived in Southall. So we had to stay in an afterchool program and she got us in but the after school program were for were for there's a place called the welding center and it was for kids whose mothers were in a women's refuge typically because they were beaten by their their husbands or partners quite often the dads are in prison and we would see a cycle of kids coming and going and I'm telling you it made my brother and I tough because we saw kids that come from rough families >> that unfortunately they're on the wrong side of bullying. which means they become bullies and so we saw that stuff but the great thing about that it enriches you get you find out who people really are >> right that's a lesson in itself especially to experience that at a young age and I agree with you I think it's a complicated subject and I think that like anything good it can be bad you know if used and abused the wrong way I think in our case of course dad got the got the degrees he needed and he went to become a banker in London >> is that what was his journey was >> my dad is a banker banker. And I'll never forget this because I'm very weak at math and I was winging to him at school and he said, "Me, too. I'm a banker, baby. We can do it all." [laughter] Yeah. Okay. So, you can do anything you want to. >> Have you been to Guyana? >> I haven't. Dad has been a few times. It's an incredibly difficult journey to make. It doesn't have the infrastructure. It's not somewhere you go for a holiday. >> Um, quite rough. >> I'm going [snorts] not next year, the year after. When I turn 50. >> What are you going for? So, I've there's there's a place there that does where you can do fly fishing, >> right, >> for very large river fish. And what they've done, they've created so um I think Zack Efron's brother went there, >> I think. >> Okay. >> Well, I've read that so I'm not absolutely sure. But what they've done, they've preserved the fish in the area and these are huge fish and you don't normally do it fly fishing, >> right? But when I looked at it, I just thought, I want to go on a >> I want to do that >> solo trip where you really It takes you two or three days just to get there. >> That's what he said. And he [clears throat] said not everything's going to work. You will get diarrhea. You need to watch out. But I think that yeah, if you have the means to. That's incredible. And I'm all for putting Guyana on the map. Because right now, no one would say I'm going there for a holiday for good reason. Um but these people need help. And I'm sure they'd love to have you. >> Well, we'll find out. >> Would love to have you. So, where are you on the list of 1 2 3 4 five kids? >> I'm the second child. I have an older brother, Adam. Then there's me. There's Robin, my sister. My other sister, Catherine, and Joseph [clears throat] are >> the boss at home. Let's be honest, out of the kids. >> What do you mean by that? >> Who runs the Who is the queen be? >> That's a tough one. >> Is it the youngest? >> Joe is very introverted. Oh, really? >> He's 10 years younger than me. Can't My younger sister extremely spicy? Okay. >> Um, opinionated but cool. >> And are they where are they? All >> they're in the UK. Joseph is here. He's Singapore. He's the only other Singaporean like me. Okay. >> The other the others are British. >> Um, the girls live in London. And my oldest brother, Adam, lives in Bali at the moment. >> Wow. What a spread. So then, how did you come to Singapore and how old were you? >> I was nine really we got here. So I was born in the UK. I went through all all the fun things that are being different in a small village in the UK. Yeah. >> And it definitely taught me a lot. We were bullied terribly. Really, >> that's what happens, I think, when you're the only Asian family in an, you know, an all-white village back in the day. That was just kind of how it went. My granddad, who's English, >> and his parents helped to build the school that I went to. Okay. >> So, I remember telling the bullies, but my grandparents built the school and they [laughter] that didn't help. >> Of course not. >> Yeah. But, you know, it's it's it's learning and we no parent wants their child to be bullied, but I think that it teaches you a lot. >> Did Did you perceive yourself as being Asian because you looked more Asian? >> Compared to my siblings, I do not >> I look the least amount of Asian compared to my siblings. But I think when you're in a village where there are no Asian children or children who are not white, everyone looks if you're Asian, you look really Asian. Yeah. >> And I remember saying to my mom, I wish I wasn't Asian. >> Really? And now I look back and I just shudder because that's definitely not how I feel. >> Henry Golding said that. I watched an amazing there's a a great show. What's um you know Queerey? >> Yeah. >> Anthony. Is it Anthony the the uh the chef? >> The chef in Queerey. >> Yeah. >> Gosh, I forget his name. I know there's Tan. >> Yeah. And there's another guy called Anthony. Okay. >> So So I think you're right. It's I think it's on Disney and I watched I think there were five episodes and I watched all of them. So he goes back to where each of these people grew up. >> My favorite episode was with who's that um Chinese Korean actress that was in uh Crazy Rich Asians. The comedian. >> Oh, the female. >> Yeah, you know the lady I'm >> Yes, I know who you're talking about. Woo. Her last name is Woo. I think >> Constance Woo. Not Constance Woo. No, who? Aquafina. >> Aquafina. >> That's another great name. >> So Aquafina, they go back to where her family were from in Korea. >> Yeah. >> And and she didn't know, but she was from a dynasty >> and it's so powerful. It's so meaningful because her mom died when she was very very young >> and then she grew up in New York. >> Yeah. >> And um anyway, but going back to Henry Golding, he said he was embarrassed and he didn't want to be considered Asian. And it was weird for me because I always I like I'm half Chinese, half Irish. Yeah, you're you're similar to well >> very similar right and and so growing up well I grew up in South Street there were 110 houses >> it was a cultist but there were only two non-br families a Jamaican family in my family so I've got some racism there >> and then cuz the Irish hate the English and English hate the Irish had an Irish surname and then when I went to Ireland I'd get so I realized was just got to be yourself you got to lean into it and then when I moved to Singapore what do you mean you don't speak Chinese >> right so it's like >> well that's the thing as a child you just want to fit in but if where you already are has representation of different cultures it's beautiful and it just might I see that with my daughters and my son now right because they're very mixed um there's not even a question about it but when you're in a certain situation you just want to be exactly like your friends >> and that's something to learn >> so then when so you came here so you moved here you've been here ever since >> I've been here ever since >> I didn't realize that I thought you >> I'm a Singaporean And I love it. >> So tell us about how you fell in love with sports. How did sports find you? >> If you ask my parents before the age of nine, I'm the child that they'd say is not sporty. >> Really, >> I'd be hiding out in the house according to them. And when I got selected to run cross country at the school I was at when we moved here, I wanted to impress my friends and make friends because I was new. My dad said, "Are you sure there's not something else you can do? you know, because [laughter] don't you know, we're going to watch her come last kind of thing. Like she was my parents are sporty. My dad was a really good tennis player. My mom did every sport growing up. And I think they just assumed my brother was county high jump who played football. They tried to put me in football and I'd just be looking the other way and hanging out and picking daisies, stuff like that. They just didn't think that I was into it and they were fine with that. So when I signed up for this, they were like, "Oh no, we're going to support her, but she's going to be last and we're going to have to deal with that later." famous last words. >> I know. And and after that, I thought I'm just going to sprint this whole thing. And I won. And it kind of I fell in love with that feeling, that feeling of my good, this is powerful. I can do this. And not really for the reason I thought I would. I thought it because I'm going to get kudos for my friends, but it was more that >> I love this feeling and I I want to push myself and do more. So after that, >> and what's amazing cuz you you can't BS stamina like that's obviously you had natural skill. >> It must have been in there somewhere. Um, but I think just the determination to prove that I could do something. >> How'd you go from cross country to sprinting? >> Oh, well, when you when I went to sports school, I wasn't a sprinter. I was a mid-ist. But we covered everything. But from that point, I was at an international school, so I was doing cross country. I was playing a lot of sports. I was playing hockey, touch rugby, which became contact rugby later on. Uh, I played it all. I wasn't incredible at everything, but I was in the teams for everything. Okay. And I really then realized I'm super competitive. So if you play a board game with me, I won't play unless I think I can beat you. Basically, [laughter] >> you're you're intense. >> I'm a little bit intense. >> But no, but the reason why >> I love it. >> Why I ask is cuz I was a sprinter, but like I I thought I could do everything. So there was cross country and I said, "Yeah, I'll turn up. I'll turn up. No worries. I'll I'll destroy all of you guys." And let me tell you, cuz we it was it was 10 laps. >> Yeah. >> Through this field. And let me tell you how I was so far last after cheating on the last lap. I climbed over because it was it was okay because I I knew I was last. It was really I wanted to get back in time cuz it was getting dark. I don't want to get lost. >> So I cheated the last bit and even cheating. I was so far lost. I packed up and gone home. [laughter] >> That was a lesson in it. I love that. >> I was 15. It was like >> and you were humbled for life. >> I was like yeah this is this is >> maybe this isn't for me. >> Yeah. many different events and what cracked me up was the guy that won >> he's a friend of mine um we became friends I saw him doing three laps of the track as warm up and I thought warm up that's that's like that's a marathon to me >> wasting energy do you know what I mean it was crazy >> that's so funny >> and then so tell us you're one of the pioneers of Singapore Sports School >> yes I mean that was a huge if I look at my life and I think of the huge moments that was a huge one for me >> can you unpack what Singapore Sports School is for most people that don't know about it and how it came about >> yeah it is our first sports sort of institute or school that we have here dedicated to sports excellence. Um people will say Singaporeans are not sporty and that's not true. We just don't have a massive culture and it's it's definitely building and it's growing. So I was a pioneer batch. This is when I was um must have been about 12 to 13 when I went and I'm now 36. So it was a long time ago and it was just everything you see in pictures. It was huge. You know, I walked in and I thought, "This is incredible." And the road to get there was a little bit bumpy. At the time, I wasn't a Singaporean. And the head coach, there was a Q&A and we'd all gone to it and I told my parents, "This is what I want to do." >> But how did how did you find out about it or how did they find out about you? >> It was in the news. It was in the papers. Everyone was talking about it because they were building this massive development in Woodlands on this massive plot of land and it was like an undercover pool. It it looked like an X-Men. It was just incredible. And and I thought I said to my parents, I was doing a lot of track and I was I want to go I want to go for this and they're so supportive. They're like, "Let's get you in." We went for the Q&A and the head coach for track and field said, "She's not eligible. She's not Singaporean. This is only for Singaporeans." And my dad said, "Will you just let her trial? Will you just see her and then we can we can see, you know, he didn't want to take no for an answer because >> that is very important that you had your dad in your corner." >> Yeah. I was just a a skinny little kid and I was just like, "What? What does this mean? >> So, how old were you at the time? >> I was during the triing period. I think 12 or 13. Okay. Yeah. >> So, they said, "Okay, let's try." >> He just said, "She can't. She's not eligible, but sure. Do you want to trial? Let's trial." And at the time, I was in the international school system, and a lot of the kids triing were already known. Some of them had already been selected because they'd been doing national school, local national school competitions for years. So, a lot of them just got in without having to trial and the rest of us had to trial. And I didn't do a lot of competitions at the time >> just as and when I could and international school cross country that was my thing I really liked it and I went for the trial went really well and they said you can join. Would you consider becoming a Singaporean? And I said >> oh that was wild >> absolutely I would love to. So I went um I was 13 when I became an official Singaporean. I think that beyond the passport I was always a Singaporean because my mom is Singaporean and I lived here and >> well your formative years were here. Well, I see myself not just as one thing, but now I'm really a true blue Singaporean. So, I get the passport and it was Yeah, it was an exciting time. >> That's so cool. And then did you board there? >> I boarded there. I think it was at the time we had to. We Monday to Friday to avoid distraction and they really wanted to make sure that every moment was taken care of. They wanted to know where we were, which I get we had two training sessions. So, it was just a case of rolling out the bed, going down and doing the first session. um quickly showering, getting to breakfast, going to assembly before going to classes and we have another session in the afternoon. >> And did you have an allocated sport or did they try you out in different things? >> We I did I was taken in for track and field. >> So that was so I knew that. >> That was my thing. >> And did when did you get your event allocate to you or when did you know? Was it straight away? >> I think during trials the coaches would be looking and taking notes and they'd have you do everything. you did long jump, high, you did it all and they'd have a look and they'd see where you placed in what and how you did or how they thought you might develop because >> if you're 13 or 14, you don't know. Some people hadn't gone through puberty yet and you change, right? You can't really test whether someone's going to become more powerful or whether they'd be better suited for endurance later on. >> So, we went in and we did a lot of foundation stuff as a team. The whole group would do the same thing and the sprinters would complain. Yeah. Because they'd have to run a little bit further than they'd be comfortable and we'd have to do some weightlifting which at the time I was like no way no way I'm doing this. I'm not doing it. It will make me bulky. That's not a thing. >> Um >> it's not a thing. Just tell Yeah. We we'll come back to that later. >> We will. But um it was it was such a it was a very interesting time. Very exciting. >> You know you know it's interesting though because I when I I did a podcast with Roger Black, Olympic silver medalist in the 400 meters. >> Yeah. saw the the promo. >> That that was um big for me cuz he was one of my idols grow growing up. >> Did you compete against him at different time? >> No, he's he's a bit older than me. Yeah, I couldn't compete against Roger. He was you know >> he could now or he's retired. >> I still don't still whip >> even after he had a heart operation. No, he was he was a 44 second man. But but um but he he said that you know you don't choose your event, your event chooses you. And I think he's largely right. But I did say to him, but look, Usain Bolt was actually fated to run the 400 meters. >> Why did you say that? >> Because well, his f his best event was the 200. I believe he probably The thing is he didn't like it because it was too much hard work. So a lot of people don't know this how he ended up running the 100, which as we know is when you're when you say who's the fastest person on the planet, it's based on the 100 meters, not on the 200. >> That's what you think about. Yes. >> So what happened was his coach Glenn Mills said, "Listen, you've got to run 400. you have to be a 400 runner. And he said, "No." And he said, "Okay, I bet you if I run well this weekend, I'll go in a 100. If I run a this kind of time, >> um, then I'd rather be a 100 runner." Because he he said to be a great 200 runner, he had to be a great 400 runner. >> And anyway, he didn't want to do the 400. Not cuz he didn't love it. It was just too much hard work. I mean, it's a horrific event. It's a horrific event. So, obviously, he did the 100 and that's how he >> ended up becoming the fastest man on the planet. But he, you know, that's why he love he's a 200 meter guy. Noel was a 200 meter guy, >> right? Michael Johnson was a 200 meter guy that became a 400 meter guy. >> Yeah. >> So, but you know, it's like when I ran, I I love one and two because >> they they're the events. >> Yeah. You have those people that will strictly do one. They they do two at a stretch, but they don't really love two and anything beyond that they're not interested, which I we I had a lot of friends like that, too. Or the coach would be like, "No, try four or try 4x4." >> And they'd be like, "No." So what what event did you fall in love with the most? >> I went in for 800,500. It's shorter. It's actually painful. >> Yeah. >> I'm I think I'm I was better suited to longer. Where I felt like I did the best and felt the most at peace and less anxious was cross country >> just out in the forest somewhere. >> So when you were nine, you that you fell in love. You found your sweet spot there. >> Yeah. I mean, I won a couple of um international school titles for cross country because I just found it really >> therapeutic and I when we moved to track and started doing all these track events, I found it incredibly stressful. >> Yeah. And it's it's more boring, right? Because you're not >> stressful and telling because it's just everything's measured out. It's so you're so visible. Everyone can see you fail or succeed. But I feel like in cross country, you just disappear for a while and then you'd pop up again. >> Yeah. And um >> did you did you when you were in sports school because so my son went to school of the arts and he went in because he wants to be a filmmaker. He got in on his script writing. >> Okay. >> And what I was disappointed about is the it's a school for arts but they're so overly focused on the academia >> that he didn't have a really well-rounded school experience. And you know, maybe he could have been more interactive, but I just felt that he didn't get a chance to do the film in the way that he wanted to because he was so focused in academia. Yeah. >> But I'm curious, what was the sports school like? Was it more balanced? >> Well, we were the Pioneer Batch and I think they were still trying to sort out a lot of things. I'm sure it looks completely different today. >> Yeah. >> I think where they really helped us was um when I first got in very quickly, I got um selected to go for an overseas competition for cross country. Uh this was the Asian cross country championships and for me I don't know whether everybody else felt the same way. I'm very I can only do so many things at once and I can only care about so many things at once and that's all I cared about and the teachers have that challenging job now trying to entice us [laughter] back and they're making up classes for people who are not there. they're doing extra work with us after training. Sometimes when you're tired, you're not in the head space to do that. And I think they did the best that they could and um it was automatically when I was there was express stream for everyone. There wasn't an option for the non-express stream. I think because of the amount of students, they brought in some really good teachers to just try and get everyone up to speed. Um >> and did they did they say like you had a goal like your goal was basically to get as far as you could do as well as you could or did they say we want you to get to the Southeast Asian Games? had all these goals and I think naively we all just aimed really really high and when you're that age you don't think about what's going to happen when you don't make it or you're not faced with am I even good enough to do this >> and I think when I matured a little bit and I was turning 16 I I had to have a really >> long hard look at myself and in my heart I knew that I knew how painful training was becoming for me >> and my dad just said I wish my parents said I wish you just give it a few more is to see if you can grow into this because you you're going through a lot of changes. >> Yeah. >> And um you I just put an incredible amount of pressure on myself. >> Um I won sports school's first national title in front of the whole school. >> Amazing. >> At the old turf club and it was in the papers and everything and it was another really big high. But when I think about it, I don't think, oh, that's the highlight of my life because it just was part of it and it brought on a lot of it was almost impossible for me to beat it in coming years. That's how it felt. >> Um, and uh, in the end, I decided at 16 that I wasn't going to do this full-time. And my parents said, I wish that you because if you do this now, they're like, you won't be able to >> do this or >> they maintain they maintained in my 20ies maybe you could have another crack. I think my dad really wanted me to. >> It's hard. It's hard. I think if you take time out in your young younger years, you know, you need to That being said, it depends. You know, you maybe you avoid injuries. >> I think it depends on the sport. It got to the point where I was just completely shattered. >> Yeah. >> Um I wasn't sleeping very well. And it just felt like if I couldn't pull this out, I wasn't going to be anything. That's how it felt. It felt like I had failed and it was a horrible feeling. It actually led me after leaving sports school to not wanting to eat because I wasn't training twice a day. That transition was really bumpy for me. Um, and I went on a through train into Poly. Didn't think too much about the academic side about it. Um, >> what were you studying at Poly? >> Media. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Media art management. >> Now you're here, right? >> Now I'm here. So, it kind of worked out, but at the time it felt like end of the road, game over. and and to be 16 and to feel that way is >> it's a weird it's a weird thing because because you know like like my daughter she fell in love with basketball there I mean my brother loved it but it didn't come from me and I just said to her you have to make a choice don't I said the real so I give an example um I feel no one talks to children about the psychology of what they're feeling the pressure right and it leads to depression and the thing is that in particular with things like track field. You can tell because it's on time. You You can say, "Well, listen, I've just run this time. There's a massive gap between me and there." You know, what am I going to do? How am I going to take this to the next level? >> It's so It's so telling. >> It is hard. >> And um they'd say stuff to us like, "We we had amazing coaches and they all meant, well, could you record your mood today?" And I was like, "What's that got to do with anything?" I didn't understand it at that point in time. >> Yeah. >> I wasn't very self-aware and I just thought, "What's this got to do with anything?" I just wanted to keep training harder and harder. I just thought the more I even when he says easy run, if I can make that easy run hard, if I can make them all hard, I'm going to be better than everyone else. But that's just not >> you dig yourself into a hole. There's only so much in a week that you can train. Yeah. And when I decided I made the decision, I felt relieved >> but also incredibly sad. [laughter] >> It's it's it's very difficult. You you say goodbye to those things. Don't start crying. >> No. No, I'm not going to. I was going to just now. I was like, >> "No, no, no." But it's when you really think back cuz I for me, I had to work out and I said this to my daughter. I said, >> "Look, the reality is this." And I said to my son, >> most people will not make their living from doing sports. >> Most won't. No. >> So, just have fun and enjoy it and go all in. But the the one thing I felt with sports is most people I've done sports with had a very amateur approach to sports. So whenever I did martial arts, I did boxing, I did track, the only person that I saw sitting down taking notes throughout the course of the training session, right, and I would film me doing things and exercises and see where the technique was and what was going on and you know, I measured everything, you know, like it took me 47 strides to run 100 meters, >> right? Yeah. >> Usain Bolt run it in 41. No did in 43 44 you know like and you and you measure you realize >> realistically how am I going to do this >> that I can knock them out >> so that works >> I'll punch them >> you know so no like when you think about so for me it was like well you're small you're 56 and a half >> choose a sport where you're fighting or competing against people the same size as you >> so that led you to grappling and actually >> I didn't know I didn't do grappling I did boxing so I did boxing and muai >> are you grappling now >> no >> are you not grappling now I've just been talkingj I heard I I've heard you, but I thought you thought he was doing it. No, not >> I did. I thought he was doing BJJ. Are you not doing BJJ? >> He's He's He's just wrestling with Tigers, you know. [laughter] >> Okay. Boxing. That's another sport. >> No, it's very different. And then like my son, he he once said to me, he's he's 61 now. He's a strapping young lad. And he said, "Did, dad, did you put me into boxing? I want to know, did you choose boxing for me?" And I said, "Look, let me ask you this question. Do you enjoy steak?" Goes, "Yeah." "Do you enjoy steak?" because I introduced you to steak cuz I gave you your first steak, >> right? You love movies, you want to be a movie maker, right? So, and I said, I want to understand this. If you look at what's the most popular sport in the world, football, >> soccer, right? So, if you were to put a room with a door in it that says football for kids, there'll be hundreds of kids. And then if you say swimming, everyone does a bit of swimming, but they athletics and boxing, there's only going to be two or three people. And then from those two or three people, there'll be even fewer that are at your weight category. And he said, he was young at the time. I think he was about 15. He said, "Are you telling me that you put me in because there's less competition?" I said, "No, there's more competition because you have to be kind of crazy, >> right, to do that particular sport. You have to be a little bit unhinged." >> Well, put it this way. You're at its roarest form. You're hitting people and they're hitting you. Well, you're trying not to get hit. >> Yes. >> It's like a bar brawl. Like from this is how we look at it from the outside. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I went I was lucky enough to go and watch what is it one championship. Yes. Two years ago. I've never seen anything like it. But it there was something amazing. >> It's very poetic. It's it's very But you know what? It's actually it's so scientific. >> Mhm. >> And one championship. I don't know if you watch an MMA fight. There's so much going on there. >> So much. >> Right. And you know the thing about sports is it's a lifestyle because it starts with your psychology. Who's in your corner, your sleep, your diet, and >> that routine. Right. That's the thing. And that's I think what athletes miss. Yeah. The routine and like you said down to a second everything. I love that >> we were talking about Natalie Dao earlier. So what she's does is she packs >> everything the night before, right? I told I used to leave my stuff when I was very young around the corner. She goes why? Because so as in my alarm clock because sometimes you'd throw something at it to knock it off to stop it from ringing. But it was around the corner. You couldn't I couldn't get to it. You know this when I was getting up. >> Is that what you were doing? because you didn't what time were you waking up >> this when I was b like 4:30 5:00 a.m. And then there are time and you're a kid. You're a teenager. >> It's easy not to do it. >> It's really tempting without having someone holding you accountable cuz you've got to make that decision for yourself. >> You do, you know, I was doing it on my own. I was running and I what I hated about the UK was the cold weather. I would run with a scarf around my m I just like I can't take the cold. Do you know what I mean? >> Some of us are not built for it and I'm that person too. It's just too cold. >> That's why we're in Singapore. So So what happened then? So Polly, you've done media and then what? >> I did media and poly straight out of poly. Uh a lot of my friends are going to university and I just at that point didn't want to go. I spoke to my parents about it and they were great. They said, >> "What is Poly here?" >> Poly Technic is the place you'll go before uni. >> Okay. >> Um maybe the equivalent of junior college in our local sense and in other countries typically is it? >> Yep. it's a three-year course and then you go to uni or you don't it often prepares you a little bit better if you want to get a job. Um but if you do JC you you usually have to go to university depending on what you want to do. Okay. >> Okay. So quite specific and I thought I'll do media because this is something I'm interested in. Okay. On the other side of sport there was a sport option. I said no no no I'm not going I'm not doing that. I don't want to look at this right now. >> Um of course as soon as I got into poly I joined rugby. I couldn't I couldn't stay away from doing competitive sport and that led me to doing national rugby. But so after Polly, I remember um we had this conversation and I thought about this and I thought about what other people were doing and how that's viewed in Singapore. And of course um a lot of people will say you're not smart if you don't go to university >> and I don't I don't believe that. I went straight into a um PR job writing or copywriting for them. That's what I was interested. It was consumer PR. I like the idea of having a job. >> School is not for everyone. >> It's definitely not for me, but I I think there's a place. And I always thought to myself, if I need uni to get to the next level for a job, I will do it. >> You know, and I think I made the right decision for myself. >> Walk me through because I want to know your journey. So, you finished Poly. >> Finished Poly. I went straight to work >> where >> I went to work at a PR company >> and then Oh, I thought I didn't realize it was an actual PR company. I thought you doing PR. >> I did. Okay. And then during that time I'm representing Singapore in um contact rugby which I got it wasn't touch rugby it was contact. >> No I started with touch and very quickly someone asked me if I wanted to try contact. So I get selected for my first national team in poly. >> Wow. >> Which also speaks to the fact that again I was really in love with that and I'd go to classes where I could. I should have been better and I I was very much myself and if I'm not interested in something I have a really hard time definitely somewhere here I'm neurospicy. I I pick something and I'm >> You said that. I didn't say that. >> I said that and I feel it. But in what I do today, it's a strength of mine. Just that ability to fire back something without thinking about it before. And it's taken me a long time to accept that. But I think I've made the right decision so far. If I think about going to uni now, I probably I think we're past that. But let's say I never say never. Let's see case in the future I want to do something else. So, I'm copywriting and I'm doing uh at this point I'm I'm doing lots of competitions for 15s and stuff like that and I'm really loving it. So, I'm doing that and that. >> And you and you like the contact versus touch which you >> I loved it. It was brutal and I I did think, oh no, what if I break my nose? It's like I'm going to have to >> but talk about that because one of the challenges I have with my beautiful 16-year-old daughter is I told you on the phone it's like she doesn't want to become too buff and I wanted to talk about that because it's not as easy as everyone thinks. >> Oh, I I want to just say that's not a thing. Everybody's always saying that and I felt the same way too because during this rugby journey they were saying if you go to the gym you're going to get less injured. You don't want an injury. Well, actually it's a contact sport as well. So if you meet someone bigger from Kazakhstan or China, they're they're built differently than us. And I was a forward. So I was thinking every time >> you're going to run into something. >> I was feisty, but at the same time, you're going to get injured. I broke my knee and it was so painful. And that was because another player knocked it back. >> I can't help but think if id found the gym a little bit earlier. No, it probably still would have happened. Uh tore all the ligaments in my ankle as well being dropped in a line out. Um, it was an incredibly fun time in my life because I realized team sports are great, but also it was painful. Um, so going to the gym is something I only discovered >> post was it? >> Yeah, I would say after my second baby in my 30s and I wish I discovered it earlier because it's just the secret to everything. >> Tell everyone now cuz you're doing high rocks. >> Doing high rocks. I went through a CrossFit. >> Which do you prefer >> phase? There's a place for all of it. >> Yeah. Um, and then trying to get my mom into the gym because the importance of strength training. I did my PT um, and my post-natal certification while I was a personal trainer a couple years back. I'm just interested in that and I thought if I'm paying these people to train me, I had a PT for three years. Why don't I just become a PT, >> you know, and I can train other people and train my mom and it was so interesting. And you know there are sciency parts to it too but at the at the root if you just lift you'll solve a lot of your problems. >> Yeah like this is a weird saying but motion is lotion right if you think that oh you know I better rest but actually as humans we're made to move. >> I could not say that without coming across all wrong. >> Motion is lotion. [laughter] My husband came up with that. I was like shut up. What do you mean? It just it just means movement. Yeah. If you working at a desk >> movement is medicine. >> It is. And you have to do it. That's just the way we're built, right? And then if you can progress and gain confidence as a woman in the gym, it's going to make it hard for someone to kill you. >> That's a strange thing strange thing to say, but in this current world and if you're reading the news and we're lucky in Singapore that we are mainly safe, but there are exceptions, but my sisters live in London and I worry about them every day. Yeah. >> Um, >> talk about that because people don't believe it, you know, like um I I got two guys tried to mug me. I got stabbed >> in the UK. 17 walking home from blockbuster video, >> right? And all these things they they can happen unfortunately. >> And people will say, "No way. You don't need to live in a far-flung place for to have violence against you." And especially violence against women. >> Yeah. Right. >> It's so tough. >> Make yourself a difficult target. >> Yeah. >> Um or do something they don't expect. And you can do that by empowering yourself by lifting and being strong. Someone I follow on Instagram got into a motorbike accident a couple of months back. And the thing that saved her neck was that she lifts weights. >> Wow. >> And I thought, "Wow, this isn't a coincidence." >> Um, wherever you can lift. Yeah. And this whole idea that we're going to become the Hulk. It I've been trying for years. It it doesn't happen. >> Yeah. It's not It's not easy. And then the other thing like she like she said to me cuz I I think she could be a world champion boxer or >> your daughter >> 100% man. She's a savage. >> How old is she right now? >> She's 16. She's a stone cold savage. She gets that from you >> 100%. [laughter] >> 100%. But she thinks very differently from me cuz I I never had confidence issues. I've never had them. I'm delusional. >> I think women though, do you think it's cuz she's a girl? Maybe. >> I think no. Cuz I've seen it with my son as well. But I do think I do think so. As a career coach, what I've learned and as a head hunter is that the major difference between men and women is this. >> When when a man is not sure, nine times out of 10, he'll buff up his chest and BS it. Yeah, I can do it. Do you know what I mean? And most women are very honest. >> I'm not sure, but I'll try my best. That's right. And then sometimes, and I've said to some of the ladies I've worked with, >> you are outstanding at what you do, but if you go in there into that interview and you say that and the men are interviewing you, or there's a stone cold at the top who's interviewing that's had to be a lot tougher than the men. >> Yeah. >> Right. If you're a woman at the top means you've been had to be twice as good at the men normally to get there. >> Yeah. Really direct, really to the point. >> If you go in there anyway soft, it's not going to work for you. >> Um, and it's it's difficult. And then uh you know when most I I think the statistics are most men in the early stages of their career 57% of them will negotiate for more money and ask for more money. 7% of women will. >> Yeah. >> Right. And it puts in but I think I think it's a little bit that but what I'm I'm encouraging her so I said to my kids I want you to embrace >> and push this thing called embarrassment. >> So you push it out of your brain. So it's very difficult. I always say it's very difficult to embarrass me. So I was with my team the other day. >> You're just shameless in that sense. >> I've just pushed myself like you cannot you know why what's the point? So how how do like how did I reach out to you? How do I reach out to people? So if someone says no and they respond I I love it because first and foremost at least the person responded. >> Yeah. >> Now we're going to have a conversation and we'll see where it goes. >> Why? But >> as a sales person, you know, I think like that. But what's really interesting about the psychology of of human beings is what they think is embarrassing is it's in their mind. It nine times out of 10 it doesn't happen. So I said to my guys the other day, we're in a restaurant. I said I went to walk to the end of the room, >> do a little bit of a dance. Imagine you're a model, do a Michael Jackson spin and come back. Who's got the mustard? >> Love it. >> Right. So they they >> did anyone do it? >> Yeah, they did it. They did. They're a bit embarrassed, but I said, you know, these you don't know these people. tomorrow. No one's going to remember even today. So then check this out. I said there's a woman that just arrived and she was on her own. I said, "All right, whoever gets her telephone number, you don't have to romantically chat number old school, right? Who's going to go and do it?" >> And then my team looked down. I said, "No." So I went up to the woman. I just started talking. Hey, how you doing? And I said, "I think I recognize you from LinkedIn." Which was not real. She goes, "Yeah, I recognize you, too." So, so she took out turns out we are connected on LinkedIn. I didn't recognize her. >> Okay. >> And her name is Siobhan, by the way, if she's listening. >> Siobhan, shout out. >> And then and then she she was talking we exchanged numbers and uh on on a friendly basis. I just said, "What?" And I said, "What you don't realize is I asked based on my rational deductive logic of who that person was. So you would not really have hurt yourself." Why? She was in there. She was an Indian lady. >> Mhm. She was having a drink on a Friday having a glass of wine. >> What was she wearing? Well, um dressed for the office. >> Dressed for the office. She She knew a couple of the people in the restaurant. Y >> and she seemed very friendly. She seemed lovely. There are some people that you know if you're going to go over there, you might even get a tight slap. >> Just be like, >> "You need to avoid it. >> What do you want?" >> But the point is it was it was okay. And a lot of people So I said to my kids, that's why I said to you yesterday, two days ago, Talia said, "Dad, I want you to scream. I want you to let everyone know that we are in the house." the the Quins own this house. I said absolutely, baby. >> I'll go for it. Yeah, I love it. >> Sometimes you've just got to say why not, right? >> Why not? >> Why not me? Because I think there's this whole Yeah. What will people think? They'll laugh at me, you know, if you can get over that. >> But you're But you're you have to lean into that because you're in the public eye >> and or the public. >> There are many opportunities for us to say something wrong every single day. >> Yes. >> So, [laughter] you need to have a little bit of a way about you. >> You can't drink too much the night before, right? You don't drink. >> You don't drink? >> No. If not, I won't be able to get up. Yeah. I'm very routine B. I'm very I tell people that I go to bed at 8ish, and they look they look at me like I have two heads all the time. >> No, but tell tell everyone your program cuz what time do you have to get up to be at work? >> We go on air at 6:00 a.m. We get off air at 10:00 a.m. So, I'm up at 4:30 every day. >> Crazy. >> Um, my husband has committed to waking up at 4:30 every day to wake me up so that I'm never late. >> What a superstar. >> And then he'll go for a run. >> Tell us about Tell us about your husband. So he's from Wales. >> He's from Wales. >> And he's a sportsman. >> Used to play um basketball for Wales. Okay. >> So he's we we're both together just too competitive. We're running our first marathon together. >> Really? >> Soon. And when I was talking to you on the phone, I was saying we'd been sick for a couple of months. And I said to him, "Should we just not do the marathon?" He's like, "No, we're going to do it. >> Don't be soft." >> Yeah. He's like, "We're doing it." And I was like, "Okay." So this morning we ran 22k together just to see if we could we have >> I saw you doing a 25ker, didn't you? >> Yeah. Was that real? I was thinking you're filming it. Is it if it's real? >> Every I got so many questions saying why do you look so fresh? And it was early on in the morning. But yeah, every single K I was like I'll take out my camera. >> You look too you look you look too good. That's >> too happy. >> I mean it was a nice slow one for me cuz my father-in-law said the same thing. He's I don't understand. Was that real? Why were you smiling? [laughter] I said when running doesn't have to look like if you go at the right pace, right? So you need to know where you're at. >> Which marathon are you doing? >> We're doing the stand chart supposedly. I hope we do it now. Now that I've said it, we have to do it. Yeah, you got to do it. You got to put it out there. >> Got to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm not going to say what. >> Is it your first Is it your first one? >> First one ever. And it's a long way, let me tell you. I quite like running and I just find it well that's a lot of zoning out and distracting myself and trying to keep >> young kids. It's a lot of discipline in terms of the time commitment. >> That's what that's what he was saying to me. He was like, "When you do any other kind of sport, it might be an hour here a couple of times a week, but when you do marathon training, I have massive respect for people because they're they're giving up >> hours, you know, hours. If you're doing a long run, you're doing two or three hours." Yeah. >> And if you have children, my son is two. We've missed that part of the morning and then we kind of got home and we're just >> tired, right? So, it's it's a challenge. It's hard. That's why we're doing it. >> I love it. I love it. And I think the the other thing is there's no way you're going to catch me doing a marathon anytime soon. >> You might you could you could do it. You could do the hard things. We're always talking about that. >> You could do it. I've done Listen, I've done a lot of things, but like that just to me it's just that I I'd rather do other things. >> I think if it doesn't appeal to you all the more you should do it. >> But I've No, I've done I've done them before, but I just don't I hate I've done I've The first one I did I was 10. >> What? >> 10 or 11. >> What's going on? You did a full marathon at 10 or 11. >> Easy. It was not difficult. >> It was easy. Back then it was everything was easy back then. Now it's hard. So what happened was making me think you need to sign up for the Stan Chart one and do it. >> There's no way I'm going to do it. >> I need to just lose some crawling along with me, [laughter] you know, >> just all of us just crying and crawling along. >> We had we had uh in I did Cubs and then scouts and we we had a 32k and then a 42k >> for cubs and scouts. I did brownies. They never made me run at all. >> It was Well, it wasn't Most people didn't run it. They walked it. But what I did was number one, I'm very competitive like you. I wanted to not just do it the fastest. >> I wanted to raise the most money, >> right? >> So my mom worked for the I told you for the London Bar of Harrow and I would I would >> I went around asking for money >> from her colleagues. >> Yeah, of course. >> And and I and I said it's it's only a pound a lap >> and how how long is a lap? And I said, well, it's a it's a kilometer. And I talked to like I was a bit I remember I was taught like I wouldn't be able to do it. So you know everyone was owing 30 to42 pounds depends on the two different events. >> Yeah. >> And that was a lot of money back then. >> That's so cute. So were you born with this kind of confidence or did it sort of grow? >> You were always what? So it's genetic. >> No. Uh maybe cuz my brother's a bit like that. My my wife at my mom's funeral said we're overly confident but I think it was cuz my dad was just brutally hard on us. Right. And we we had to learn by default. >> Mhm. >> So like I was taught everything. I learned how to to use a chainsaw, a mini digger. Everything was like 5 minutes. >> Yeah. And you've not cut off a finger. That's great. You're okay. >> I I outlasted everyone I worked with on the building site because no no one was careful. I was very careful >> and I noticed he wasn't and he had a lot of injuries. >> Your dad? >> Yeah. >> Loads of injuries. Right. all the guys >> snipping himself and all >> leaving stuff on and >> just just not careful. Yeah, because there's this principle my wife hates when I say it. There's a principle that I teach everyone in life called rational deductive logic. Sounds very off obvious but sometimes you need to take time out take a backward step look at what's going on around you make an assessment and most of us already have the answers but more often than not people what should I do you know figure it out you got to work >> that's a good one actually >> yeah rational deductive >> take a second >> take a moment >> or make the mistake and just don't ever make it again >> yeah and learn but >> learn from it right I nip myself >> learn >> but it was but there was so many things and then I think I'm I can't tell cuz I did some heavy lifting. I've always been phenomenally strong. >> That's [laughter] a clue. Okay, I believe you. >> Yeah. So, like No, like I like I can deadlift three times my body weight, bench press 2.25 times my body weight. >> Strong. But but >> the the key was there's different types of strength. And that's the thing that I learned cuz my strength was functional strength, right? So a lot of guys that are like bodybuilders, they're not necessar they in a bit of a tussle they'll get injured. So it's it's real world strength. >> Yeah. Yeah. Strength that you can use. So for example, my husband's brother is um a tree surgeon. >> So he's always like up a tree. Yeah. >> And his sport is um like log cutting speed. And that also you have lumberjacks are amazing. >> Incredibly careful cuz you're on the log and the equipment's crazy. >> That's no joke. >> And at first when I was watching him do that, I thought that's really weird. And then I thought, no, he's look at him. He's a manly man doing functional manly like >> they are amazing athletes. I' I've been to Vancouver. I went to go and watch a lumberjack competition. >> You could do that. >> Oh, no. I like my toes because that's that's a real skill. >> He did hit himself in the shin cuz he forgot to put the chain mail on >> and had to go to A&E. >> Well, we're talking about that. My dad, he was cutting down a tree in my our garden. >> It wasn't his fault, but um and I I I was going next cuz I said I want to do the next one. And uh someone had put barb fencing wire around the tree which we didn't know was embedded in the bark. >> Right. >> It cut he he the chain went into it. The the chainsaw jaked went straight down through his leg. Could see his bone and everything. >> Savage. >> Savage. But that's a real sport. >> But but the the thing that I've learned about confidence is that the number one thing that I genuinely believe and I don't want to sound arrogant. It's just I know that I'll outwork most people. And and I've just said to my kids, the truth is if if you know, I g my son an example when he got into the Singapore national team. You turn up today, it doesn't matter if you're not the best, but 90% of the people here today won't be here in a year's time. And there's a moment in a in in boxing and in a fight and in life when you get hit and nothing, using Rocky quote, nothing hits you harder in life than life. No one's going to hit you in life. And in that moment, you make a distinct decision. So I I told him, "You need to practice how to take a hit without looking like it doesn't hurt." So So in boxing, most people say, "Yeah, that didn't hurt." You know, you know it hurt. And then Mike Tyson, who's my favorite fighter of all time, when he fought Aana Holyfield in their first fight, he hit Avana Holyfield two or three times, his harness punches, and Holyfield like looked at him like it hurt, but I I ate that for breakfast. And you can see in Tyson's eyes, >> his soul was destroyed in that moment. It's like, I can't beat this man. >> Very psychological. >> Yeah. And it was just it was just the And the thing is in life, like I remember when my wife's dad died, we weren't married at the time and we had no money and she lived with her grandmother and um and I just said, "Let's all move in together." Right. And there was no talking about no, it was like we have to roll. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. You got to do what you got to do to get out of the situation. And that's the thing, right? A lot of people believe they're stuck if they're handed something that is not favorable and I'm a victim and I'm stuck, right? But sometimes if you don't make the changes and you don't go and do that and walk through that door, you're going to remain stuck. It's the same with everything. It's the same with the confidence thing. I don't have confidence, so that's it. No, you can still be anxious every day, face it, and you can still do the stuff. It doesn't mean you can't do it. >> But I I did want to share some things with you that that I've learned over the years. So it's not that I don't have insecurities. We all have insecurities. But I always think, you know, the hero in their own story, the person with courage will will tackle those things. So I only learned three years ago through through my son three and a half, four years ago now, that actually I've always been afraid. >> I I lied to myself for my entire life thinking I love confrontation. I love it in everything from from when I was boxing, martial arts, on the track because when I ran, you know, Lyford Christie, all these guys, they were like, you know, warriors. They weren't like Usain Bolt smiling, you know, everyone was quite aggressive. >> He's like, "Yeah." >> Yeah. And that's why that's maybe the secret to his resource. It's amazing, right? And and then in business and what I realized through his eyes >> cuz he said, "Dad, I'm I'm scared." I said, "Of course you are." And then I because I but I realized I've been lying to myself and it's completely changed the way that I you know try and parent my my kids >> and how I try and be kind to myself and as a coach but it's a weird it was a weird revel revelation at 44 >> 45 like mate you you got this wrong. You actually have been afraid. It's okay to acknowledge it. >> Yeah we all get scared but also like keep learning. >> Keep learning. There's this whole a phrase I hate to hear is I'm old already, so I'm never going to change. >> Yeah. >> And this person's like in their 30s. I just >> that's just the way that I am. Well, no. We can all change. We can all get better. >> Have you noticed though a lot of people I mean I'm 48. A lot of people when they start getting older, they talk old. They think old. And I'm just thinking you've become old just because you've allowed it. >> Mhm. >> Although I've got to admit, like this is really embarrassing. Well, for me, I went to the park 2 three days ago. >> Yeah. And I've I've had double shoulder surgery and chest surgery. And it's the first time I haven't done pull-ups for a while, but it's the first time I can't do 20 pull-ups. >> 20 pull-ups is a lot though. >> I know. But >> but they're one of those things, right? You don't If you don't do it, you'll lose it. >> Well, I have lost it because I got 10. It was slow. Then I thought I'd go back again and I thought it got worse. I did some other things >> and I'm still sore two days later. And then it was like I said to my wife, "Honey, everything's going downhill." It's like um you know and then she said you you know you're still doing really well baby and I said [laughter] >> babe you can still do 10 but for your own personal standard it's just not enough. >> It's just really like not good enough. >> It was really bad. It was and then she goes you should post that and then and I said >> be vulnerable. >> I said but that's not me is it? >> It's not me. I'm not vulnerable. Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. You remind me of my dad. No. No. No. That's not me. >> I'm old school. But but I think it's important to admit what you are and what you're not and you learn from that. >> There's no shame in that. You're still a human being. Yeah, >> I think people who believe they're not that's that could be a problem. >> Talk to me about so so radio like how did you decide you wanted to get into radio? >> I always knew from Polly that that's what I wanted to do because I grew up listening to radio in the car it'd be CDs that you'd manly put in. But dad when he'd pick me up or mom would pick me up there'd be radio and it'd always be two stations. It'd be class 95 in Singapore Gold 905 or when we were in the UK it'd be BBC. They're so mad that you're doing it now. Yeah. >> Yeah. And my granddad always said to me and I I'd roll my eyes. It was really awkward. He'd say, "I think Sophie should be on the BBC." And I was like, "Oh god, this is embarrassing." Because he's saying something that it's akin to your grandad saying, "I think you should be a movie star." And you're like, "Yeah, I just grandad like >> I like how you put on the Essex accent." >> Yeah. He's a bit like that grand. Not everyone can just be on the BBC. I just think you'd be great for it. Grand so embarrassing. Um and and you know, life went on. on. I got married and I had my first child. I continue I continue to listen to radio. There's something about it that I still love. And this is why when people say to me today, radio, I don't listen to radio. Do you think radio's dying? I don't >> because I think it is going to take a long time for the people who are radio devotees or people who are driving around >> and they're lonely and they want to have that connection with someone. You're not going to get that from a Spotify playlist. Mo >> Most people still listen to the radio in the car, I'm sure. Well, it just gives you or sometimes they'll ask you something and they'll be like, "I know that." Yeah. >> You know, and they might message in or or we have a lot of listeners on the station that I'm on now that from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep, it's on and they're retired and it's it's it's >> that's so sweet. >> And they'll send me a message every day, sometimes the same people. >> But don't you think think about this? Whenever I go cuz I I consider Ireland more my home than England. >> But whenever you go to when I'm in Ireland, I know I'm at home because I I I turn the radio on. >> Yeah. >> Right. And the same in England. Like I always listen to Kiss back home. Right. >> Yeah. I listen to that sometimes, too. You know what I mean? My heart. Yeah. >> But um >> Yeah. But you've got I mean you've got a great voice, but you're also very pretty. Didn't you want to be on TV for radio? >> Yeah. You don't know. >> I'm I don't know if I have the confidence to be on TV as a daily job. You know, I >> it's going to happen. I'm telling you, I'll predict I'll make you a better right now >> constantly. But I love but I do love what I do. I think a lot of people who go into it hoping that it will lead to purely TV. For me, I in the car listening to it, I was I want to be a a DJ. That's what I want to do. >> But you're But you're still actually But now because of social media, you you're kind of on TV anyway. >> We're kind of making content and that [laughter] you guys must have a great time when you have >> We actually do. I think that's the secret. Um, it's not as if who comes up with the skits and stuff. >> We are constantly just texting each other. Oh my god, this I saw this. This is so funny. Oh my, this is you. You got to do this, but you got to do it. And we make fun of each other. So, it works. >> That's why it's funny. >> That's why it works cuz he's just kind of silly and I'm I have no problem saying that. And he has no problem calling me out as well. And he's pretty funny, too. So, it's kind of good. And we can't take ourselves too seriously. >> What about your voice? Has your voice always been like this? because you've got you've got a slightly deep but lovely resonance. >> When I first got into radio, my boss at the time was like, "We need to have a chat." And I said, "What about what?" And she said, "I love the way you sound, but when you speak, you you sound like you're speaking the Queen's English and we're in Singapore." And it's really and that can sometimes sound really unapproachable. So she's saying so interesting because a lot of people will say we have a some very Singaporean um DJs and then we have some that do sell have a more of an American style accent >> and then because I'm British I have a when I speak to you you're British too. I have a British accent when I speak to my family too and then I I will code switch for my Singaporean family >> but I she's like we're not saying you should put on a strong Singaporean accent but do you mind making certain changes and it's something I had to learn. So, one of the bigger things was rounding off that Britishness to make it sound not American but a little bit more. >> Did you Did you do it in your personal life unknowingly? Change your accent a bit? Cuz my mom whenever she came to Singapore, I I would like, who's who? >> Oh, well, my mom speaks to her family. It's hilarious. But >> it's so weird. >> But that's what happens when you're more than one thing. And and >> it's not put on like you you went to Australia for a trip and you came back and now you have a fake Australian accent. >> That's true. I've seen that. >> It's all you. It's just different different days in your life, right? So, she just said, "Round it off. >> Pull back on the British little bit." Yeah. >> You speak well, pull back on it. So, it's a round it off a bit and smile so it doesn't sound >> smile when you talk >> and it sounds, for example, for radio, I wouldn't be saying, "Hey, how's it going?" I'd be like, "Hi, how are you?" You know, make it >> Yeah. >> be happy. And even if you're not feeling happy in that moment, be happy because >> by the way, that's great for for people in sales. So when you're picking up the phone, smile. >> You know what I mean? And a lot of people what they do when they finish a call, let's just say they didn't get what they wanted from the >> Okay, bye. >> Yeah, exactly. And it dies. >> Or the best is when a scammer calls me. I love that. >> How do you do that? >> They say you should block and not pick it up. Sometimes I'll just pick it up. >> Hey, what's up? And then and then you can you can feel them. The voice is so powerful, right? And I always say this to people who say, "Oh, you speak well. like how can I learn to speak better even in my meetings or whatever I'm doing uh I'm I'm conducting training but I'm feeling a bit shaky and I said it's your biggest asset right it's your voice it's everything it says a lot about you when you're meeting someone and and they've got the confidence to to speak a certain way and to bring their best self so you can see when someone's angry or annoyed it it shows in the voice you can you don't even need to be looking at them and radio is the same right close your eyes and you >> you can hear someone are they smiling and >> sometimes we'll pick up a call and the is like coffee to our ears and it's incredible and they're like my goodness hello you picked up good morning and it makes my day makes my whole day um so like you said for the calls when someone's not happy like yeah fine >> but what have they given you any training is at some point >> I just throw into the >> I'm sure every DJ will say something different every presenter will say something different I feel like you need to have a sensitivity to to do this job you can't just There are certain things we do. There are certain things we don't do. Everyone, of course, is different and the way we present completely different, but there there are we want that experience to be when you turn on your radio, you feel like I'm speaking to you. >> Yeah. >> You're here with me. We're not in a room of 50. >> It's a real skill. >> And it's taken time. I remember the first time I turned on the mic, I could have thrown up right in studio. I was I could feel my it was like like like starting a 100 meter race or starting something that was I I could feel my heart beating in my chest and I thought I don't know what's going to happen. >> You you know what it is? This is I' I've analyzed this. Fear is a funny thing. So I'll give you I always use this analogy. So if you had a scaffold board here you could >> What's a scaffer board? >> Scaffold board you know like >> oh like a little plank. >> No like that that wide up you know when you they're building and you've got the >> Oh scaffolding scaffold. Yeah scaffold board. So like you know foot wide. So you could walk up and down that blindfolded backwards, no problem. But if you put it 100 m in the sky with no safety net, >> you you'd be shaking like a leaf >> and that's precious. So you know cuz I did a radio show once and it was like why you know I was a bit nervous and it was like cuz you were imagining that loads of people are listening. That's that that's the thing >> and you're possibly overthinking and we see it when we have our incredible guests coming in. if they if it's not something they've done, >> they've got they're overprepared. They're looking at the notes and we'll just say like it's our job to make you feel comfortable and I'll try to make conversation and just loosen them up a bit and say don't look at that. I'll just ask you the question and whatever comes to mind, >> put it across. But if it's not something that you do on the daily, it's awful. Like it's terrifying. They do great all the time, but that you can tell that oh my goodness, I'm about to speak into a mic. I'm going to tell them to get really close to it. I'm telling them then to put these oversized headphones on which is echoing really loud because it's good to be able to hear yourself when you're doing radio so you can know whether you're too soft you're shouting and how you sound in a way >> and it's it's a lot going on >> a lot of bright lights and we need that >> and often there's a couple of people around which makes it even worse >> you know you know what's really funny is like so I went to the US and I brought Isa my daughter cuz I wanted her to be along for the ride >> and just to experience what it's like to chase your dreams. And I'm sat there and I'm I'm having to film in this place that I'm not used to. I'm worried about the tech not working, all this stuff, >> going all the way there >> all this missing a recording. >> There was a lot of pressure, right? >> And um one of the cameras switched off because the voltage was off or whatever. But this is the thing. I was thinking I'm sat across a man >> who has done this job for 51 years and he's interviewed the who's who. >> Yeah. And then for a split second I thought and you know in that week he'd been on the Joe Rogan podcast all and then and then I've just read his book and it's like a history book. >> Yeah. >> And I'm thinking I knew what was about to happen. Did I just ask him this or or did he cover this earlier or was it what I was watching yesterday cuz it was all within a 48 hour window. >> Right. So you could kind of have you seen the movie Inception like an interview. Inception. >> Exactly. >> Every interviewer's worst nightmare. >> Yeah. >> Right. And then once you get into that mindset, >> it could be >> you've got to pull yourself out of it. >> I just I just snapped out of thought, right, go reset. >> Don't go there. Don't go there. [laughter] >> But what was funny like I I asked my daughters two nights ago. So my mother-in-law, she's very skeptical. She goes, "Are you do you pay all your guests to come on to the show?" I said, "No, no," and she goes, "But why?" And I said, "You It's a good question because I don't have much of a platform yet." And I just said, "I'm very fortunate. A lot of people are very kind. I think I hope they feel that I will do them justice and that they feel that I'm a good person. Um, but she kept asking me like she thought, you've got to be and I had a guest on this morning and he he said to me, "Why are you doing this for me?" And I said, "Well, firstly, we're friends. Secondly, if I can put a bit of a shine on your business, that would be great." He goes, "Well, but what can I do for you?" I said, "You don't need to do anything. >> Just be your best self. >> Just turn." But he he was saying, "Do do you want me can I introduce people to you or give you this?" I said, "No, just, you know, because I believe in karma. I believe in kindness, and I think through hard work, good things come from it." Yeah. Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. And build building relationships, too. Maybe not in this case because you already knew him, but like you're all about networking. I mean, that's part of in your DNA. You're friendly and you're confident and you you're always building that. And a lot of things in life do come down to who you know. Yes. >> Or or you'll have people in your address book or your whatever phone that you're like, I can call this person for this or I can hook you up with this guy. Um, and that's how things have become. So, that's powerful. >> But, you know, the real weird thing is I mean, are you an introvert or an extrovert? Like in between. >> Well, anyone who knows me at work will say I'm they never know what I'm going to say and that I'm an extrovert. And in school, I was a little bit quirky, too, but I'm an introvert. But I tell people and they say, "No, you're not." Because my husband will bring me to work events and unleash me because he knows I'll be I'll be able to be there and show up. And I get home and I'm >> destroyed. >> I'm destroyed. and my ideal weekend is doing nothing. >> Explain that to people because I'm exactly the same and no one gets it if they don't know you in your private life. >> Yeah, they don't. They think I'm doing cartwheels at home because sometimes I can I can be incredibly energetic sometimes and and and silly and I like to have fun. I don't want everything to be so serious. >> If you ask my husband at home, he said, "You're quite quiet, actually." But he's fine cuz he's the full-on 100% introvert. >> Okay. So I sometimes don't even >> pressure him to come to things because I don't want to make him feel uncomfortable and I think there's growth and then there's accepting who the person is and he's like that and he accepts me for all my flaws. So I'm yeah I'm an introvert. I love to just >> because I I find that >> you know I try to coach people on this because most introverts think they're at a deficit and I I say to them well >> are we not at a deficit? >> Not at all. And and I just said actually if you're working with other introverts it's easier because you'll feel comfortable with one another and most extroverts are quite easy to work with because you just wind them up. Let ask them a question and they're good to go. >> Yeah. What should we do now? And they're like um hey guys hi everyone look over here. This is what we're going to do. So at work no problem at home big problem. Yeah. It's interesting. >> It's very different. And then maybe because of our job like we're both speaking to people all the time in the evening my social battery is drained. Yes. >> You know what I mean? So I think finding that balance like this week my wife had so I've had two or three work events in the evening. So it's all day then in the evening >> my wife had 20 30 people on the house at Tuesday Thursday. >> She sounds fun. >> She loves all that stuff. And then but she got really upset with me because a few weeks ago I lost a huge deal and we'd worked on it for a year >> and she works with you. >> No. No. She she So my wife's a lawyer by training. She is a professor at N US. Yeah. So, she's got um a PhD from Yale. Sounds cool. She's a fullbrite scholar. She's very cool. She's actually a nerd. Um and she and I are completely the opposite. I don't know how we got together, but >> Well, you're a bit of a nerd, too. In a nice [clears throat] way. >> Am I? >> I'd say you do. You do strike me as a bit of a nerd. Like very I think there are there's more than one way to be a nerd. Yes. You're very Nope. I want it done this way. This way. >> Yeah. Very particular. >> Yeah. I feel like that's nerdy in itself and that's a very good form of nerdiness. >> Well, then you're absolutely right. I am >> methodical. Ask my team. >> I didn't forget. I never forget. >> Yeah, very much so. But like she I messed up because she had probably 20 guests that night and they were all very senior, much older than me. >> And I turned up and the thing about me is I don't give a >> I'd never cared. >> Were you like, "Peaks, I'm here." >> Well, no. I turned up and they and will you join us and I said, "Hi guys, it's nice to see you all. I've had an absolutely day. I'm going to grab a bottle of wine. I'm going to go upstairs. You guys have a great evening. That's all right. She wasn't happy about that. >> 3 weeks later came out and she goes, "Honey, what did you cuz she said, "You could have said this or you could have said that." And I said, "I know. I know, right? And maybe I should have done, but actually I I I like that." So like I have another friend, Surish, if you're listening. He said to me, >> um, "Can you come to my Dvali party?" And I said, "Thank you very much, but I won't." The answer is no. >> Yeah. >> And he said, "Why?" And I said, "I don't like socially interacting with people. You're going to be there. I'll talk to you for five minutes. I'm going to have to talk to everyone. Hey, how you doing? What do you do? But I don't >> Oh, you don't I see when I see you, I thought you'd love that cuz that would be a great chance to like network. >> I don't I'm not a networker. >> Yeah. >> And and and so I said, I don't want to be rude. I'd rather spend one-on-one time with you and and just so you know, you're probably going to ask me again and the answer will also be no. So, I'm just letting you know ahead of time and please let your MS know. And my wife thinks that's a little bit rude, but I said, you know what? I don't think it's rude at all. And I think it's very honest. >> He's known you for a long time. >> Long enough. I'm sure he is okay with that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And if he wasn't, I don't care anyway. >> Well, people will say, "Let's double date." I said, "Not with my husband. You won't be." >> That's But >> because that will be hell for him. And what do you mean? And I'm like, "I'm I'm serious. Oh, my wife's an introvert, too." No, my husband would not enjoy that. Sorry. No, I won't put anyone through that. >> Well, that the interesting thing. So, if you've got girlfriends and they're married, yeah, that's fine. But they're your they're your girlfriends. They're not his. >> Yeah. So, let's do something together. Yeah. Yeah. And then let him just have his peace because he's the same at work. He's like, "Hi everyone." But then at home it's like, >> but you know, talk about networking. I'll just touch upon that. So, you know, I've had a few guests on that you know. >> Yes. >> Probably. >> Yes. Yes. Actually, quite a few. >> But most of them name a few. >> Amita. Nah. >> I didn't know Amita. I didn't know Nat. I'd met Nat once before. >> Okay. The one that you do know, Ry. >> Ray. I do know Ray. I do know Ray. >> I do know Ray. >> I've known Ray many years. I know Ray. >> He's a lovely man. >> He's amazing. >> Shout out Ray. >> And um but I know him as Civer by the way. When you because when you say Ray Ray, you're like who's Ray? Ray with the guitar. >> He's the thing about him. He's one of those unique guys that he's very comfortable in his own skin. He's got no ego. Just a lovely lovely human being. >> That's very rare. No, no ego at all. He's lovely. Yeah. >> No ego. >> Very talented man as well. So I always I always think you know um again in being in business is just reach out to people >> say hi invite them for a cup of tea cup of coffee and it's quite powerful. So talk to me a little bit about two last things I want to wrap up on if if I may. >> Yes. >> I want to talk about your fitness journey. What you're doing now especially as a mom of three. How do you bounce and what are you doing? And then secondly like any future kind of projects you're working on and stuff like that. >> Okay. Oh well the project one that will be tough. Okay. I'm a mom of three and I feel like that is when I define myself I'm like that's the biggest thing. Like I really love it. They are always my priority. But what I've learned in this journey is you've also got to prioritize yourself. I talk to a lot of moms and they're like we don't have time to work out. We just don't have time. And you it's hard to find time. >> And also when I don't know what they're doing in the day, it's really hard to say to them find time then. If it was important you'd find time, but I I do feel like it's essential for me. It's part of who I am. if I can't train regularly or do something regularly, I can't function. I just can't. Um, and a lot of people will say that sounds dramatic, but that's just the way it's been. Um, pregnant or not pregnant, I've been training. >> Did you different things? >> Did you ever cuz uh I stopped training for about 10 years. >> Yeah. >> Completely. >> Yeah. Really? And it was and it was quite I don't I was just, you know, I had no money. I was trying to build my business and I I was suffering a lot from depression. I was like reading books about it and and and then it struck me, you idiot. You stop working out >> and and now that's the key reason why I work out to keep that balance. >> It's free, right? It does a lot for your mind and people a lot of people look at it like, oh, I want a six-pack and I want people to tell me that I look good. >> But more importantly than that, how do you feel about yourself when you wake up? Yeah. Right. How do you feel? >> Does it make you feel powerful to work out? You know, it's it's health. It's essential for my mind. I don't know if I'd be able to do what I do at work and then come back and parent my children without that kind of structure. >> Yeah, you need that balance. So, what do you do? What apart from marathon training? >> Marathon training at the moment. Um, I love a bit of high rocks. I love um I'm part of a CrossFit gym. >> For me, that is a great way to learn a bit of skill. Be humbled. Have a little bit of a social with people that you know while getting stronger in a very generic way. Crossfit is so sort of varied. You're not going to get a massive bench press. Not for me anyway with a couple of times that I go. But my overall strength that's going to improve your gymnastics, your pull-ups, all the stuff that you kind of you don't need. I'm not going to say anyone needs a pull-up. It's nice to have some pull-ups and back squat, you know, you need to do all of it. And and having that guidance and that sort of touch point is really great. So, I've been doing that on and off for years. Um, if you if I can't do that, I'll just go and have a solo session in the gym. But also what you're doing is you're you're leading from the front when it comes to your kids >> because they're going to see what you're doing. >> They see it a lot. And I remember when I was prepping a lot for Hier Rocks, we did a Hier Rocks World Champs last year. Last year, a year before, we went to Nice. >> And I remember my daughter's teacher said to me, you she's really sad cuz you're going to Nice. And you know, she said that you're leaving her here while she's still at school. And it's a bit of a tricky one to explain. I'm going to Nice cuz I want to compete in this competition and she'll be fine. I'll be back and I can't bring her with me this time. But I'm I hope that it will show my girls and my son as well that >> you know it's okay to have a hobby and it's okay to work hard to suffer a little bit. It's good for you and if I can show them that I hope in the in the future they'll be the same. >> So powerful. I think so. >> Who are your top three female athletes of all time? >> My gosh, this is tough. >> Paula Radcliffe. >> Yeah, amazing. >> One of them. >> She's amazing. Especially that iconic picture that stays in my mind of her pooing on the side of the She gets it done. She had to get it done. That's what she had to do. She's also a mother. >> She's a beast. You know the thing about Paula Radcliffe is if you see her dressed up, >> she can look like a supermodel, right? >> Paula Radcliffe. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. I've I've I haven't seen any of those pictures. >> No, I've seen a couple. But like you wouldn't know. My point is you cuz she makes a lot of faces when she runs. >> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? you you there's two she she she really makes faces when she runs. She's she's an icon of of you know our sport. >> Yeah. I'll name one more. Allison Felix. >> Okay. >> I love sprinter, but also you heard about what happened with Nike when she became pregnant and they they were not willing to renew or something like that and she said, "You know what? >> Forget it. >> I'll do it on my own." And she >> opened a shoe brand for runners. She has a daughter. I I believe now too. I'm not I'm going to need to verify that, but she's >> I follow her on Instagram. I just think she's amazing and that's the good thing about social media nowadays. If you admire someone or things resonate, you can just follow them. >> She she the thing about her to me is that she's such an elegant, beautiful runner. Like really beautiful. That to me is when you see someone like that running. That's what running really is. It's so graceful, elegant. You can see a silhouette of her running, you'll know she is. >> She's just Yeah, she's a runner. Not one of those people that is a runner as well, but maybe you you didn't think they were to begin with and then you see them like they're very fast. like she is just a beautiful runner and I really love Serena Williams as well. >> Serena and she's just >> my dad's really into tennis and he was not he's not the biggest fan of her but I I disagree completely. >> Why? Because of her like she's quite aggressive. She's unapologetic. That's what I would >> Yeah. She's like she's not afraid to tell you to shut up. You know, I'm trying to do this like stop coming at me and and women are not always super assertive and she's like you're bothering me. Shut up. >> She's a savage. >> Shut up and be quiet. But also if you see the other side of her as a mom now as a mom completely different as a business woman and just >> she's actually pretty silly too and funny. >> Yeah, she's goofy. >> I like it. I like both sides. Yeah, >> she's so powerful. >> You know what I mean? Really strong. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. Wasn't that bad, was it? >> No, I actually had a great time. Thank you so much for having me. >> I'm feeling great. >> You weren't nervous. >> Not anymore. We got through it together. >> We got through it. Beautiful. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Cheers. Heat. Heat. [music]

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